PICASSOCONVERT

Just putting this post here so as not to interfere with the important work of technical matters and problems and fixes. I've just done a 60 mile round trip in my 2003 C5 2.2HDi and, as it's a nice warm, sunny day and the traffic was light on the A1, I started to think about why I really like my car and what I would do when it dies. I like my car because it was cheap to buy (under £5,000 at 6 years old), it's reliable (never broken down unlike the 3 "14 reg" vW/Audi group cars I have seen at the side of the road this week), it's supremely comfortable, it tows my caravan brilliantly, it's economical (currently telling me it will cover 650 miles on the current tank of fuel), I believe it's safe (never tested that one, thankfully), parts are not massively expensive (and I haven't needed that many), it's as kind to the environment as it can be (dear old DPF), it goes well (no shortage of power), it carries everything I want in the massive load area, and (in my opinion) it still looks good for a car designed over 10 years ago). It's just that somehow I feel slightly uneasy. I think there's a little cloud on the horizon in the form of 2 permanently-lit orange lights and one little hyphenated word "anti-pollution". As regular readers of this forum will know, these are the symtoms of a termnial illness, referred to by one member as "the black death". This diease can defeat the most experienced and qualified mechanics and gifted amateurs alike, so what chance have I, as a humble retired accountant, of tackling it head on and beating it? At 11 years/94,000 miles my car is too youthful to die. The engine still performs brilliantly, blissfully unaware of the dark days ahead. Why, BSI, Instruments, Airconditioning, Radio post equipment, CD player, Parking aid, Alarm, Switch module at steeering wheel, DRiver's door module, Passenger's door module, Diesel additive function, Airbag, Display of autopc telematics, ABS, suspension, Righthand headlamp, Lefthand headlamp are all being reported as fault free by my new sweetheart Lexia. Only the dreaded injection shows "Fault". The end is nigh................................................... However, I will battle on. One poster said what is needed is a methodical approach to tracking down and eliminating the problem. This will be my mission - after all the new rear brake pads I fitted last November have seen hardly any use! In due course (probably end August) I will start a new topic in problems and fixes to report progress and ask for guidance. If all fails a 2-3 year old a highish mileage Peugeot 508 estate seems the answer, and throw it away when it's seven years old. David

Just to report that I re-ran the counter reset procedure and since then the low fluid message hasn't reappeared. I also spotted the the Lexia data included the number of km driven since the last DPF regeneration and the average for the last five regenerations which is quite handy to know as it seems to confirm the DPF is working. "I now run a 2003 Mk1 2.2HDi and recently at 92,000 miles I added 3 litres of Eolys fluid. I used the diagnostics to reset the counter but I still get the fluid low message and the "service" light flashing for a few seconds after I have driven about 200 yards. This message comes back if I stop and open a door, fo example."

Alex Sorry I didn't come back to you with the space Lexia takes up but I've been away for the last few weeks. However, I see you have now got Lexia so good luck. David

Hello Andy I have a 2003 C5 2.2HDi estate and I bought Lexia 3 for it a couple of months ago, so I would expect that's what you will need for your car, too. However, I am no expert so you may want confirmation of this from a more experienced source. Despite being technically challenged, I did find my way around the Lexia diagnostics and found it very helpful. There is a thread with forum members willing to help out with their Lexias - if you are in or near Bedfordshire I would be happy to help. David

On 30th April paul.h said "I think on some early C5s the additive ecu may need to be replaced rather than reset to remove the error message, but I would check this with the Citroen dealer". He is absolutely correct (as ever). On my first 2001 Mk1 2.2HDi the Eolys fluid was topped up at 5 years/73,000 miles and the Citroen dealer who did the work warned me that the ECU may have to be replaced - and it did. I now run a 2003 Mk1 2.2HDi and recently at 92,000 miles I added 3 litres of Eolys fluid. I used the diagnostics to reset the counter but I still get the fluid low message and the "service" light flashing for a few seconds after I have driven about 200 yards. This message comes back if I stop and open a door, fo example. I reckon the fluid is still being added and my car runs well. Someone said the message only goes away if the Eolys fluid tank is completely full but I suspect it's an ECU problem with MK1's. As an aside I am also adding Millers Diesel Additive with each refuel to try and make my car run trouble-free as long as possible. Good luck with your car. I bet you've never had such a comfortable car before................ David

Alex Welcome to the forum. I bought Lexia from eBay recently and it helped me to sort out the problems with my C5 (2003, so older than yours). I have no training as a mechanic of any sort but I managed to work my way through the menus without difficulty and solved a couple of issues comparatively easily. David

Pleased to report my old car got through its MOT yesterday with no problems so just the road fund licence to renew and should be good for another year. David

Hello Paul Thanks for working out the weight of the fluid. I over-estimated, but I reckon that by the time the 3 litres of fluid I put in are used up the car will be in the next world (and so might I for that matter!). I had read the common problems post in the technical section and the information was spot on, thanks again. David

Thanks for ther tip paul.h - you are correct (of course!). I had a final look around this morning and discovered a split in one end of the fabric covered rubber tube that connects to the EGR valve. I cut 1/4" off the split end and reattached it. With the ignition on, but the engine not running I was able to erase the error codes so I have been driving around today with the engine management/service lights not lit. The EGR problems now appear to be solved. The only minor irritant is that the "Diesel additive at minimum level" error message comes up briefly on the central display for a few seconds a couple of minutes after starting the car. However, I can live with that. The only other thing which I did (and hadn't heard of before) was to enter the amount of Eolyse fluid I had put into the car (in milligrammes) on one of the Lexia screens - the amount then showed as grammes. I made the assumption that 3 litres of fluid would be about 3000 grammes. So, overall, Lexia has proved its worth and saved me a trip to a garage. Next job MOT in a few weeks........................ David

I've finally got Lexia running on my old laptop, with the help of Jay at jjdiagnostics just down the road in Luton. It's been interesting looking at the information Lexia can provide. It was worth the cost just to see on one screen that my Exclusive is "Top of the range"................... So far I have failed to reset the DPF fluid counter and I suspect I may need a new ECU. This happened on my 2001 2.2HDi and it may be the same on my present car which is a 2003 2.2HDi. It is interesting to see that Lexia gives the recent DPF regeneration history - at least shows that regeneration is still tasking place. Also no recorded faults on the DPF system, which is good. The EGR faults are still there, though with the following data against code P0400: Engine speed 771rpm Airflow reference value 235mg/stroke EGR valve electrovalve open cycle ratio 94% Inlet airflow 559mg/stroke Actual airflow 12mm3/stroke In main parameters: EGR open cycle ratio 5% EGR throttle valve cycle ratio 5% Of course, I have no idea what all this means so I will be making a trip to the nearest independent Citroen garage for some advice! Finally having read the error messages when I try to erase them Lexia says "communication error" and the errors remain. Is this just because my Lexia is (probably) of non-European provenance? Any comments anyone? David

I've just acquired Lexia and I'm in mid Bedfordshire. However, no experience of using it yet!

A belated update. Good news - my car is running well & I've done a few longer journeys this last week with overall 54mpg showing on the display over about 400 mainly motorway miles. Still got the anti-pollution message and engine warning light. Additionally, early last week I got the low diesel additive warning so added 3 litres of Mr Citroen's finest eyolus fluid, but of course I haven't been able to reset the counter. However, I have bought Lexia from a UK supplier on a well-known auction site so once I get my old laptop running reliably on Windows XP I should be able to install it and start to learn how to use it. I recall that qman3428 (thanks for the low voltage post) did say it's no use having the diagnostics if you haven't got the knowledge to fix the problems (or words to that effect). If I can reset the eyolus counter and clear the fault codes it will be a good start (especially as MOT is due by end of April. I can then see if any faults re-occur as they may have been caused by low battery voltage. David W

psicobra - thanks for the reply. The unit I bought (Memoscanner U480) is an integrated unit which just plugs in and displays messages, so there is no separate software. paul.h - thanks for your reply. I agree there is always the possibility that a sub £10 piece of equipment may not work and the codes generated may be wrong. At least it was a cheap and easy exercise. You are correct about the EGR/black smoke issue, which my wife's Clio suffered from and was easy to fix. However, the DPF probably does hide the evidence on our "superior" DPF-equipped C5's! I replaced a broken swirl actuator plastic joint last year and it is still intact and moves as it should, so I think I'm OK on that one. I will turn the ignition on and off a few times as you suggest to try and clear the warning light. I already tried disconnecting the battery, which (as I expected) had no effect. I don't think there is a member with Lexia near me but the little garage in the next village will probably clear the codes and the engine light for me. I am now going to go re-read a few posts and draw together the best approach to checking what I can. I'll report back, probably early next week. David W

Is there a way to erase fault codes and turn off the engine warning light without diagnostic equipment? (Read on for the background). Still content with my success at doing the "rear brake job" and a service at the end of last year on my 03 reg 2.2HDi manual estate, I was dismayed on Monday to get "Antipollution Fault" and the engine warning light on. However, undaunted I read around the forum and thought "Maybe I can do diagnostics, too". So as a start I ordered a sub £10 fault reader which arrived today. I plugged it in and it tells me I have faults P1352 (which from what others have said I can disregard) and P0402 - EGR flow excessive, whic I cannot ignore. Now my poor car has been largely idle or used only for really short journeys recently which means I get the chime and the service light at startup because of the low battery voltage. So, I wondered if the DPF was getting clogged up. So, on Monday evening I did about 80 miles at a steady 70mph in third gear (so about 4,000RPM) along the A1 just to see if anything would go bang, fall off or catch fire. Apart from a reduced MPG, commensurate with the thrashing, everything was, and still is, fine. The car is running as well as ever. However, tomorrow I will start to do some of the basic checks referred to in other threads to try and identify the problem. It would be nice to be able to clear the faults and reset the engine warning light to "off" (to see if they reappear) but my cheap code reader will not carry out these functions, so is there any other way to do it without spending £75 on a Lexia set up (the data from which I probably wouldn't understand anyway!). Thanks for any advice. David W

Mike I get the impression that we in the UK may have to go to Peugeot for our next large French estate cars (in my case second hand). There seem to be many more recent 508 estates for sale now than C5s, and at quite attractive prices. My local Citroen dealer hasn't had any C5s in stock, new or used, for some time now. David

I've just had the same problem (2.2HDi). After about a mile to a mile and a half from a cold start the temperature gauge would start to move normally and then go momentarily to the top of the gauge. At the same time the "Stop" light would come on. Then the water temperature gauge and the oil temperature gauges would both go back to rest at the bottom. Stopping the car and restarting the engine would result in the water and temperature gauges reading normally, although on occasion (when it took me a while to find a stopping place) the gauges started to operate normally again. Playing around with the old thermostat in hot water showed it was a bit "sticky" in operation. Replacing the thermostat seems to have cured the fault, but with an outside temeperature of 2C today it took some time to get the engine up to a temperature where the thermostat would open. Just one point on fitting the thermostat - is it really the case that the EGR pipe has to be disconnected to give enough headroom to remove the thermostat cover? I could get the bolt nearest the EGR pipe out with a bit a jiggling but I couldn't get the cover out without unbolting the EGR pipe from the inlet manifold. David

Thanks for the replies. I have gone for Comma 5W-40 synthetic. Firstly this is the grade specified in my handbook. Secondly a relative can get Comma oils at trade prices. We'll see how it goes. David

Thanks again paul.h for the words of wisdom and Johndouglas for the Torx info. I did clean everything up with brake cleaner when I put the bits back together. As I was re-fitting all the old parts everything went back into place without me having to adjust the piston, but I have made a note of your comment about the 1mm gap and the marks on the caliper for future reference. I am going to strip down and examine the nearside tomorrow morning and if that's OK I will put my discs and pads into storage for future use. Finally, is it possible that the pinned post is correct for a different model to mine - perhaps the Mk2 or Mk3? The text does seem very specific about the pin which retains the bottom of the caliper. David

Well here goes - the sequel to my posts on rear pad/disc replacment and corrosion removal. First of all I did my homework - read the pinned post on this topic and pages 126/127 of the RTA manual. Got the car (2003 2.2HDi estate, 90,000 miles) raised up and propped and the front offside wheel off. The only additional precaution I took to the pinned note instruction was to chock the rear wheels as the car was going to be in neutral with the handbrake off. Also applied some steering lock to get a better view. First step for me (as a novice) is to have a long, hard look at what I can see and ensure that I understand what I am looking at. At this point I realised that the pinned note wasn't for me. My car doesn't have a pin securing the bottom of the caliper. So, after a re-check with the RTA manual I could see that I had what was shown in their pictures - a caliper secured by two bolts (new ones are supplied with the new pads). After removing the handbrake cable and the pad wear sensor wires (noting the route they take as per pinned post) I removed the two bolts and with a bit of gentle tapping using a hammer and a bit of wood the caliper came free and I could remove the pads. At this point it is worth noting that my car has only one piston in the caliper - on the inboard side, with the outer pad fixed up against the caliper. It appears that the whole caliper can move sideways on its mounting bolts (hence the rubber gaiters near the mounting bolts) to keep everything centred on the disc as the pads wear. The pads came out easily and the thickness left in them was 8.5mm total (new pads 11.5mm) with approximately 6mm to go until the wear indicator would touch the disc. So, about 1/3 worn. Surprising to me, as the car has not had new pads since I bought it 38,000 miles ago. I do drive fairly gently (I know what's good for my wallet), but not to the extent of dragging my feet on the floor to stop! The next step was to look at disc removal. Two problems here. Firstly, unlike the rear dics, this one won't budge even with blows from a hammer (onto a wooden block to protect the disc). WD40 currently doing its stuff. Secondly, I cannot see that it will be possible to remove the disc without first removing the caliper support, although the RTA manual does not mention specifically that this has to be done. Additionally, the bolts securing the caliper support have (to me) funny heads. It looks as if they are similar to cap head bolts, but with splines inside instead of a hexagon. A quick Google leads me to think that they are male torx heads. As I don't yet have these in such a large size in my tool set I will have to acquire some. However, if someone could kindly confirm these are the correct things to buy I can get a set and carry on with the job in due course. However, as the existing pads seem to have life left in them and the discs are also in reasonable condition (quite smooth and not scored) I may well just clean and re-assemble everything for the time being. Not that I'm a coward or anything, just no point in doing jobs that don't need doing is there........................?? David

I'm about to do my own service (2003 C5 2.2HDi estate manual) and was wondering what the current best advice is on engine oil. The RTA manual quotes semi-synthetic or synthetic 5W-40, API CF or SJ/CF, ACEA A3.98/B3.98. I was looking around on-line at Shell Helix 5W-40 (which is what the Citroen dealer used) and came across this which appears to help specifically with DPF's: "Shell Helix Diesel Ultra AF-L 5W-30 Fully Synthetic Low SAPS Engine Oil - 5 Litres About Shell Helix Diesel Ultra AF-L 5W-30 Fully Synthetic Low SAPS Engine OilShell Helix Diesel Ultra AF-L engine oil is the latest generation fully synthetic motor oil designed specifically to meet the needs of all Ford and Mazda diesel engines fitted with diesel particulate filters (also suitable for diesel engines without a DPF fitted). Shell Helix Diesel Ultra is suitable for Ford normal and extended service intervals. Shell Helix Diesel Ultra engine oil contains ultimate active cleansing technology to continuously prevent dirt and sludge build up. Shell Helix Diesel Ultra AF-L 5W-30 - ApplicationsSuitable for Jaguar, Ford diesel and Mazda diesel engines requiring specification ACEA C1 or WSS-M2C 934-B. Shell Helix Diesel Ultra AF-L 5W-30 is also known as Shell Helix diesel 5W30, Shell Diesel Ultra 5W/30, Shell AF-L 5W30 diesel engine oil, Shell synthetic oil for Mazda diesels, Shell synthetic oil for Ford diesels" Why do ShelI have two names for the same oil (see red text above)? I realise that ACEA C1 is not on the "approved" list for my car but just wondered if this newer oil would be of any benefit? Also, if anyone has any oils they swear by (for good reasons!) I would be interested to know. As an aside the Halfords list of cars/oils quotes 5W-30 for my car. David

Hello paul.h - yes I did fit the shims (simply because I didn't know any better and I was just doing what the book said!). I have just checked the old pads and there is no difference in wear between any of them - they have all worn pretty evenly. As I mentioned the inner pads did not have the shims fitted but the outer ones did, so based on the 30,000 miles these pads lasted for the presence/absence of the shims appeared to make no difference. I thought I read somewhere that the corrosion problem itself might cause the pads to wear at an angle, but I imagine your car will not have any corrosion! I've been out and about today and it's very pleasant not having the brake squeal every time I stop. If the weather is dry tomorrow I am going to attempt the front discs/pads. David

As paul.h says, there do not appear to be so many people towing with the newer C5's. However, I did find a positive review on www.TowCar.info which specifically referred to the sprung suspension: Citroen C5 III Tourer - 2.0 HDi with a Buccaneer http://www.caravantrekker.nl/images/logo/Buccaneer.gif Keith B reviewed a Citroen C5 III Tourer - 2.0 HDi (100 Kw/134 bhp). Modelyear: april 2008 - april 2010) and a Buccaneer Elan 15 of 1418 kg. The towing capability for this outfit is: http://www.towcar.info/images/ster/groen40.gifhttp://www.towcar.info/images/bord_con_weegschaal_klein.gif = 84%* http://www.towcar.info/images/bord_leeg_heel_klein.gif = 99 km/u http://www.towcar.info/images/bord_steilehelling_heel_klein.gif = 18% Towed around 1500 miles since I bought the car and had no problems at all whilst towing (mine has steel suspension). Very quiet and confortable for those long runs, with lots of space for the gear. Very economical to run returning about 30mpg whilst towing at 60 and 55mpg on a run solo at 70ish. Would recommend this car to anyone. I am hoping that my Mk1 C5 will keep going for quite a few more years as I just don'y know what I would replace it with. I need a large estate to carry my model aeroplanes and most of the 4 x 4's and SUV's a lot of people are towing with are just not long enough or as comfortable as my C5 and cost a lot, lot more. I wonder if anyone has towed with a 200bhp 2.2HDi yet (either C5 or Peugeot 508)? Or a Mk3 3.0HDi? A second-hand one of those could be an option ini a few years. David

After three weeks away from I home I had an opportunity today to replace the rear discs and fit new brake pads. The pinned post on this subject was was very helpful. As in that post, I had a pair of caliper bolts which were difficult to budge once they had unscrewed from the suspension arm - I eventually got them movng and re-attached the caliper but it was a bit of a struggle and I didn't manage to get my plastic gasket in place on that side, although I had applied the copper grease. Most of the corosion appears to stick to the suspension arm and I found it came off in chunks with the careful use of an old chisel. I then used a Permagrit file to clean up the surfaces before coating the mating surfaces with a smear of copper grease. I made gaskets out of a piece of thin plastic sheet I had. Fitting the new brake discs was actually very easy. I removed the two screws retaining the discs on the hub and the discs came off easily with a gentle pull - just as described in the RTA manual. Fitting the new ones was also straightforward. I took note of paul.h's comment about checking the discs ran true and they did - no corrosion on the surface of the hub at all and the discs fitted perfectly. The new pads fitted without difficulty. It was interesting to note that the existing inner pads had been fitted (by a Citroen garage) without the metal shim - probably because there was already some corrosion at that time (April 2010 at 7 years/59,000 miles - currently 10 years/90,000 miles) moving the caliper outwards and reducing the gap between the caliper and the inner edge of the disc. I was very apprehensive about doing this job with my basic tools (principally socket set, spanners, torque wrench, screwdrivers) but in the event it was fairly easy. I would recommend people to have a go using the pinned guide and start by seeing if their caliper bolts can be removed without too much trouble (try them one at a time). Once the caliper bolts are moving OK the rest seems fairly uncomplicated. If anyone would find a few pictures helpful I took some photos - if you PM me I can email them. Once the rear pads have bedded in I will have a go at the front discs and pads and report back. David

Thanks again for the reply paul.h. I have the RTA manual which is broadly similar to a Haynes manual and my French is just about up to the job of understanding it. Once I have got the rear brakes sorted (and bedded in - thanks for the tip) I will look at the front and might have a go if it's not necessary to undo the brake pipe, as you say. David

Gentlemen, thank you very much for your very helpful replies. I have now removed the two pairs of screws retaining the rear discs to check they were not seized. New discs/pads front and rear and the filters for a service are now on order from Citroen Letchworth (thought less risk of problems if I used Citroen parts) who were very helpful - asked if I had got the caliper bolts loose, did I know about the corrosion problem etc, etc. I don't think I will attempt the front discs myself as the RTA manual refers to "...desacouppler la canalisation hydraulique..........", which is "uncouple the brake pipe". I don't think I am competent enought to bleed the brakes on a C5 (used to do it on the old Morris Minor, though, with my mother pressing the brake pedal), particularly as one appears to need a "Luro" or similar device and a Lexia for the secondary circuit. Also, the 2 man approach is not recommended except in an emergency when its effectiveness cannot be guaranteed. I will report back on how I get on, but it probably won't be until the end of November as I'm away for most of the next month. David