clipper

Well, I have to say thanks to you all on the forum (mainly paul.h and Simple, it has to be said) for the help over the last few years. My "faithful" C8 was delivered to the VW dealer last week in exchange (plus several bags of silver) for a Touran, so I will never know the cause of its various ills. But neither will I have to pay for the repairs... Thanks again and Goodbyeeeee!

I'm still hoping that it is the thrust bearing really, although I'm not sure if that is a good thing to be hoping for as I have no idea of the replacement cost.

In neutral, pressing the clutch partially down (to where the biting point would be if it were in gear) does make the noise go away, without having to depress the pedal to the floor.. In a very quiet garage, I can hear the output side of the clutch spin up when the clutch plates meet on biting point and the noise kicks in at that point, it is directly related to the clutch on the gearbox side or to the gearbox input shaft. I'll take it to the mechanic this week to get the box oil checked.

Thanks. I'll pay more attention next time I drive it and see exactly what clutch action affects the noise. I'm certainly planning the "live with it" solution for the time being, but as you say, things could get catastrophic quite quickly... that said, I have a 32 yr old BMW with a layshaft bearing rattle that's been there for 10 years. That gearbox has 360k on it and still going. Obviously I'm not expecting a C8 box to last that long, but it would be nice to know if this is the beginning of the end, or if we can eek another two years out of it.

Hi all! My long suffering C8 has developed a new "issue" and, ahead of taking it in to see the doctor I can't help but wonder what it might be. At first we noticed a ever louder whining noise, which seems to come from the transmission, and linked to engine speed (downshifting makes the revs rise, the pitch of the whine rise and increase in volume). The noise is now very noticeable on the over-run / under engine braking. Now I have noticed that at idle in neutral, there is a similar, but less intrusive noise. I'm pretty sure that it is the same issue but without load. The noise goes away upon depressing the clutch pedal. At first I suspected the clutch release bearing, but a noise from this wouldn't go away on pressing the clutch right? On the contrary, it is when it would be more noticeable? Therefore, I am suspecting a gearbox bearing on the input side. Any known issues like this? The car had a new clutch about 2 years / 50k kms ago, and it now has approx 210k kms.

Indeed, I was in "glass half empty" mode... The aircon always worked, but with reduced efficiency. I am assuming that the old electric fan was trying to spin on the lower speed setting, but not managing to do so, then finally spinning a bit when the aircon was engaged. Now the motor cools OK and the aircon cools even better! Time for our second summer holiday in the C8... about 1,000 miles ranging from motorway at 40º heat and 130 kp/h, mountain roads at 7% gradient a,d beachfront roads at 15 kp/h... I touched up a few scratches and re-sprayed a bumper corner last week, so I hope the C8 stays in a good mood!

I stand corrected on the filling procedure! But in the end I did not have an air lock. It was indeed the fan which had packed up. Cooling system checked, topped up, and fan changed for 250€. Seems fair. It seems it was just an unlucky coincidence that it happened just when I changed the temp sensor. Thanks again for your continued help!!

Thanks for the info. I haven't seen any written procedure for coolant filling specifically for the C8, but as per your write up on the use of the "special tool", it should technically not be required in the C8 as the expansion tank certainly is higher than the bleed points. It is in fact the highest part of the cooling circuit. That doesn't mean to say that I don't have an air leak of course.... More worrying is the statement that the fan is a three speed affair. Mine most certainly is not. In fact, it is possible to have the engine at well over 100ºC and the fan not spinning at all. It will spin slowly if I engage the air-con, so I know that the fan motor does physically work, but I have doubts about the fan control system. Given that a decent fan is up around the 200€ mark, and I don't understand the fan speed control circuit, all I have been able to do is test the fan relays (all OK), and clean up the connectors in the fan area. But this made no difference, so it has gone to the workshop.... yet again...

So, changing the temp sensor didn´t turn out to be such a good idea. On the first trip out after the change, the motor overheated to the point that the "stop engine" warning came on. I assumed that it wasn't related to the sensor itself, but rather to the act of changing it, thinking there may be air in the system. I couldn't find a procedure to bleed the cooling circuit, but I put the nose of the car up in the air with respect to the back, ran the engine hot with the heaters on full and bled the radiator at the bleed screw at the top. I couldn't find any more bleed screws on the thermostat housing nor elsewhere, so Iam assuming that the radiator is the only bleed point. The engine still overheats though in slow traffic, and the engine fan apears to do very little, spinning only slowly if the air-con is on, and not kicking in at all if the air-con is off. I took out the fan to inspect it and it seems ok. The thermal resistors in the fan shroud are visually ok. I checked that the fan relays are all in place and with good connections and they seem to be OK. But I don't have a multimeter with me at the moment to check them. Any thoughts? I just can't see why changing the temp sensor would suddenly make the fan not kick in. I had never paid attention to the fan behaviour before as I had not had any temp problems, so I don't know if it has always been like this, or something I have done / disturbed. I'm currently waiting for the engine to cool down to go and put the old temp sensor back in....

Thanks a lot! My EGR doesn't have a vacuum hose though, it is electrically operated. I guess it is a different system to the diesel motor. I was initially reluctant to buy a code reader to use on this vehicle because frankly, I didn't think it would be in my possession, or even still be running after two years, but maybe it is time to invest! My local mechanic is getting a bit annoyed that I keep "dropping by" to get the codes read. It does look pretty clear that the fuelling is regulated by the 1338A7 sensor given its name in the Service Box. Given its very low cost I'm tempted to just change it and see what happens, or at least have a good look at it and the state of the wiring / connections (clearly not best practice to change it on spec, and not my normal modus operandi, but it's ok to rebel once in a while right?) Thanks again! I will report back!

OK, so time for an update... The C8 has made it through another winter of spluttery start-ups and revving the hell out of it so that it doesn't bog down on pulling away. But in a strange way I am now quite relieved that the fault is getting worse. Relieved in the way that if it is worse it might be easier to find out what's going on. Now the engine doesn't even start if the temperature is below around 12 degrees C. We have to turn it over for a while without it firing, stop cranking for a second or two, then try again. At this point it will start with its "juddery misfire" type symptoms and eventually the idle evens out and off we go with a heavy right foot to stop it from bogging down. Sadly, there are still no consistent convincing codes being given (they seem to be random and range from coil pack codes, through to Lambda sensor faults, but none seem to repeat themselves after being cleared), but the EML light now does not go off from time to time as it did before. However, reading up on other petrol engined citroens of a similar vintage, I see that very similar symptoms have been reported in Picasso 1.8SX models. Anyone know if that engine is similar to the 16v c8 motor? It is of particular interest because one of the people reporting the similar fault said that the dealer "eventually found a faulty coolant temp sensor" and that cured the problem, and that indicates that it wasn't an immediately obvious issue from the codes. It also would make perfect sense for a faulty temp sensor to be the culprit in my case. I would be prepared to change the coolant sensor just to try it , but where do I find the sensor which sends the temp to the ECU? (from experience with other cars, it may not be the same one as sends the signal to the temp dial for example). Any help or suggestions where to look appreciated!!

It was the same old routine this morning according to my wife, but, the EML has been off now for a good while. The engine was flushed with a cleaner at the last service and it seems to have drastically reduced the oil consumption. We think that it has possibly unstuck a gummy piston ring, but no comp test was done before, so we'll never know. That could have been why the EML and polution fault was on, but I would have thought that the cat would complain like hell of burnt oil coming through it? For the start up, it has to be said that it looks like temp sensors to me now. Going on a trip to Portugal and the north of Spain later this week, so it will go as it is now. MPG is reasonable and except the service belt loss the other day it hasn't actually let us down yet (even then it drove home). I'll get back to it in September. Thanks for the inputs so far!

Yes, I had a can of throttle cleaner and used about a quarter of it cleaning the EGR. The rest I used to clean the throttle (with the motor off). There was a 1mm rim of carbon on the edge of the plate which came off quickly. The majority of the can went on the walls of the throttle and any technical features visible in there. I started it after a few minutes and drove it round the block. The start up was the same as ever, in warm weather you can rev the engine up in neutral after about 5 seconds of spluttery idling. In the cold it is worse, maybe 20 or 30 seconds, and even then it will bog down on the first clutch action. To be fair it has only had one start since spraying all those chemicals in it, maybe tomorrow it will be better....

I have just fixed this problem. Rather than broken plastic mounts which I expected after reading this thread,mine had a steel mounting plate, held by three bolts passing through rubber grommets in the plate. The spacers which go through the grommets were a "top hat" design and had been fitted the wrong way around, effectively shimming the motor away from its correct location. Turned them around and bingo. Full sweep from the wiper. The motor had been changed in the past, so the incorrect fitting was almost certainly by a mechanic.

Well, that's that theory blown. The valve is pretty clean, not clogged up at all, moving parts are free and it defaults correctly to the closed position. Back to square 1!! At least the EML has been off since the last big service nearly a month back.

Thanks. I have got onto Citroen Service with no problem and identified the EGR valve. The diagram above is indeed incorrect! My plan is to clean the throttle body at the same time as the EGR valve. All other service items are recently changed including plugs. Even the garage I take it to agrees with you about the EML, they have told me that it is the first time they have ever seen an EML illuminated with no codes stored, but it has been that way for the last 4 or 5 times it has been in, so there seems little point in keeping on looking unless I take it to Citroen, which will be the next step if the EGR and admission clean fails.

Can anyone confirm that the EGR valve is the component labelled "Y10.13" in this image? I believe that this image may be for a 2.2 Hdi engine, but was that ever used in a C8?

Just to make things easier, yesterday it decided to throw its service belt as my wife was driving home from work at 3 p.m.... Full credit goes to my wife who drove the 30kms home with no PAS, and no air con (it was 38º here yesterday afternoon!!), so there went another 200€ in the garage for a new belt and tensioner pulley..... since January I have spent 1,000€ on this vehicle!

Some good questions there! And some that I don't follow!!! DPF = Diesel Particulate Filter no? My C8 is petrol, so I would be surprised if it had a DPF. 180k Kms? Yes, it is showing approx 190k. I have looked for air leak symptoms (well know to me from previous experience on a BMW E30) and I am 99% sure that this is not happening on the C8. I could be wrong though. The reason for suspecting the EGR is that being a mechanical valve with electronic control, there are cases of the mechanical part blocking up and no codes being thrown as the ECU doesn't detect any fault. This coupled with the fact that on first start up I get a slightly rough idle and a reluctance to pick up revs. This exact symptom is described on some technical sites as a result of an EGR valve stuck in the fully open position, hence allowing the full amount of exhaust gas from start up into the induction side, which should not happen. On start up the valve should be closed and the induction 100% "clean". I appreciate your work doing the Lexia write up, but really I would have to invest in the software and a PC to run it on, and I am sorry to say that I do not really plan on keeping the C8 for that much longer and honestly I would think very hard about buying PSA again, so the investment is really not worth it.

Thanks Paul. The car has been to various garages during the year and no codes have ever been found. I don't have a computer suitable for Lexia, so my only option now is to take it to a main dealer to see if they see a code which Bosch service and other professional code readers are missing. Given that removing and cleaning the valve is effectively free, I figure that it is worth a go before chucking money in the dealer's pocket! However, from pictures I can find on internet, this particular EGR seems to be pretty much a sealed unit, so I'm not sure if it is even cleanable, or even if it is accessible easily.

Nearly completing a year of ownership of the C8.... Having had the Anti-pollution fault light on for nearly all this time, I have decided that I should at least clean the EGR valve. All of my symptoms point to the valve being stuck in the "open" position. Has anyone successfully cleaned and EGR Valve on the 2.0 16v petrol motor? Can it be opened once removed or can it only be cleaned with spray products? Any help appreciated!

There are certainly earth points at the front outer corners of the front footwells. I was in there today fixing my rear blowers. Take the lower trim off, in front of the door and then peel the carpet up a bit.

Very interesting, thanks. The oil level shown on the electronic gauge was not "wrong", it showed the fixed line of dashes. I did check on the dipstick and the oil level was just above minimum. I think I will try the procedure in section 9 of the document to "ensure accuracy of the oil gauge", as it is strange is how it went from OK (only 1 or 2 dashes) to almost minimum in such a short space of time. When topping up the oil, I don´t believe that I could have disturbed any wiring, the most "intrusive" part of the procedure is removing the dipstick, but adding oil hardly requires putting your hand in the engine bay. One thing we (as drivers) have changed is the way we drive away from cold. Given that the engine doesn't want to rev when started from cold (see my other thread on a suspected sticking valve), we now make sure that the engine has warmed up enough before we try to move away in 1st. Previously, on trying to move away, the engine would bog down and almost stall, but if we let it warm up a bit on tick over, then use the accelerator in neutral to rev the engine a bit before engaging 1st gear, the engine does not bog. I think that previously the bogging of the engine may have caused a fault to be registered and our new procedure may be avoiding that. But I am guessing!

Just an update: So after about a month of driving with the anti-pollution fault and MIL on, one day, just driving along, my beloved C8 gave a "low fuel" warning message (it was indeed low on fuel, so this in itself was not an issue), and simultaneously the MIL went out! I had already decided to empty the tank as much as possible then refuel with a premium brand fuel, so proceeded to fill it up with BP 98. About a third of the way through the tank, the MIL and anti-pollution came back on!! So, never mind, I continued to drive it until one day, out of the blue, it decided to show the oil level was below minimum. Since the service in September the oil level had always been full, or nearly full on the advisory start-up display, then suddenly it decided it was below minimum (I have no idea where the oil went, there was no puddle on the floor where we park it, no drips or noticeable leaks). So I put in about 500ml and upon starting the oil level once again showed as full.... and the MIL was off and no anti-pollution fault!!. It has now been through a couple of tanks of petrol since topping up the oil (including supermarket 95) and the MIL remains off. Can I draw any conclusions from any of this? Probably not, but this car has a mind of its own....

Another quick question that may be related to the Antipollution fault: I have read various threads in which people suggest that their fault has cleared by switching from Supermarket 95 RON to premium brand 98 RON. I doubted this, and when I mentioned it to my mechanic, he cried bullshít and told me not to waste my money. But I can't help wondering... what is the general consensus on here?