1st Disappointment With Citroen & Navidrive (rt3)

[lee_marshuk]

Hello everyone,

 

I'm posting this more for information than anything else for prospective NaviDrive customers.

 

I purchased the NaviDrive unit with my brand new car, under the guarantee that I could use the TMC function in this country to help me avoid traffic jams - and to be honest this was the primary reason I spent to much on the RT3 NaviDrive unit - at £1400 it wasn't exactly cheap. However, TMC has never worked from the word go.

 

My car has now been into the dealer for a couple of days at a time every 3 or so weeks to try and get it working - basically, the TMC light will come on for a little while, and then go off.

 

The excuses coming directly from Citroen's technical were as follows:-

 

1: No station in this country broadcasts TMC. - Load of rubbish. Classic FM powered by iTMC does, Chrysalis radio does etc. And more to the point, if no station in this country does, then I shouldn't have been guaranteed it would work over here.

 

2: Must be a problem with the unit. - I solved that one. Took my car to France, TMC worked a dream over there.

 

3: I suggested perhaps there was a problem with the UK disc. I was told this was a load of rubbish since there is no TMC information stored on the CD.

 

This was where I got angry, and started to do my research.

 

The TMC information IS stored on the CD - in a folder called RDSTMC, which contains the decoder information for TMC which is country specific (hence why it is stored on the CD, as each country has a different country table and decoder).

 

So, I examined each of the CDs in my pack. Guess which CD is the only one out of the whole European pack not to have an RDSTMC folder? Yep - the UK cd. So no wonder it doesn't work.

 

Next step - I contacted Navteq to find out the situation - and found out some very interesting things. It seems that PSA (the Peugeot Citroen Group), who are the only car manufacturers incidentally to sell the Magneti Marelli RT3 Unit ("NaviDrive"), do NOT have a license with any of the TMC broadcasters over here to use TMC in the UK - hence why there is no RDSTMC folder on the CD. Quite shocked as I was, I told my story to NavTeq, who were most surprised Citroen guaranteed to me I could use TMC over here, and were most surprised their brochures advertised it as TMC capable in the UK - as it is simply not.

 

So, armed with this, I telephoned Citroen UK in a little bit of a strop. I explained the whole works to them, and eventually I got a message from one of the technical admin team - who said "Yes, you're right, we do not have a license for TMC in the UK at all, and I'll look into it".

 

Great.

 

Renault (Rubbish) (Rubbish) were in the same boat last year, incidentally, but when people complained about the same situation, they got a license from iTMC, and then sent out a bulletin to all customers with NaviDrive, stating they could have a TMC enabled disk for another £40 - which to be honest I'm even willing to pay since I am desperate for this TMC function to work.

 

Hope this might help someone! - I'll let you know the outcome from Citroen.

[lee_marshuk]

Hehe - I like the way the forum automatically puts Rubbish after R enault :rolleyes:

[pork_pie]

Hehe - I like the way the forum automatically puts Rubbish after R enault

 

 

 

Thats is because it is the truth.

 

I wonder it it works for Peugeot (W@nk)

or Fiat (5hite)

 

It works!

[Mat]

'Fraid i cant help with your Navidrive problem as i dont have it.

 

However, what do you get for £1400 Navidrive, that you dont for £300 Tomtom, other than integration into the dashboard?

[wozza]

Nice 7" or so widescreen display which is used to display everything rather than the little lcd we have. Integrated phone and a few other bits and pieces.

 

Admittedly not cheap but it does look rather nice and probably would not be too difficult to hook up something else to the monitor up front.

[evilone]

I am surprised that you got any info or guarantees on the navidrive system as none of the dealers I have spoken to know anything about it.

 

My gripe is that citroen.com states.

"The new generation NaviDrive system is available on the Citroën C8, C5, C4 and C3 (depending on the country). It offers a number of essential functions: a GPS navigation system, a GSM dual-band hands-free telephone with access to the address book and audio system (radio and 6-CD stacker). At the same time, passengers can use the screen or voice synthesis function to read the SMS messages received over the phone."

 

Yet mine only has a 5 cd-stacker. When I bought the car this was the only information I could find on the navidrive system, the salesman knew nothing about it.

Then when I complained about the 5 cd stacker they said they are all like that.

Citroen uk just fobbed me off with "ignore that website it's french".

[Mat]

....does look rather nice and probably would not be too difficult to hook up something else to the monitor up front.

DVD player ? :rolleyes:

[wozza]

I am surprised that you got any info or guarantees on the navidrive system as none of the dealers I have spoken to know anything about it.

 

My gripe is that citroen.com states.

"The new generation NaviDrive system is available on the Citroën C8, C5, C4 and C3 (depending on the country). It offers a number of essential functions: a GPS navigation system, a GSM dual-band hands-free telephone with access to the address book and audio system (radio and 6-CD stacker). At the same time, passengers can use the screen or voice synthesis function to read the SMS messages received over the phone."

 

Yet mine only has a 5 cd-stacker. When I bought the car this was the only information I could find on the navidrive system, the salesman knew nothing about it.

Then when I complained about the 5 cd stacker they said they are all like that.

Citroen uk just fobbed me off with "ignore that website it's french".

In the C4 they are all 5 disk changers it might be 6 disk in 1 of the other cars but in the C4 you only get a 5 disk cd changer in the armwrest.

 

DVD player ?  :rolleyes:

 

Incar computer :blink:

[evilone]

In the C4 they are all 5 disk changers it might be 6 disk in 1 of the other cars but in the C4 you only get a 5 disk cd changer in the armwrest

Thats on the standard spec I paid for the navidrive system. Perhaps if the salesmen had better product knowledge these problems would not arise.

I challenge anyone to find specific details on the c4 navidrive system, what it does, how you program the satnav and what equipment it comes with.

 

DVD player ?

 

There is video connecters in the glove box, I have plugged a digital camera and video camera in but it cuts out when the car is moving.

[Mat]

DVD player ?

 

There is video connecters in the glove box, I have plugged a digital camera and video camera in but it cuts out when the car is moving.

Hmm, how hard can it be to 'fix' that? :rolleyes:

[lee_marshuk]

I believe its quite difficult, actually :lol:

[Mat]

I believe its quite difficult, actually :lol:

Even harder for me - I dont even have teh screen in my dash

[lee_marshuk]

oh dear *throws tools out of window* then u have got a lot of work to do :lol:

[wozza]

In the C4 they are all 5 disk changers it might be 6 disk in 1 of the other cars but in the C4 you only get a 5 disk cd changer in the armwrest

Thats on the standard spec I paid for the navidrive system. Perhaps if the salesmen had better product knowledge these problems would not arise.

I challenge anyone to find specific details on the c4 navidrive system, what it does, how you program the satnav and what equipment it comes with.

 

DVD player ?

 

There is video connecters in the glove box, I have plugged a digital camera and video camera in but it cuts out when the car is moving.

Has to cut out its illegal for it to display things which the driver could watch etc whilst the vehicle is in motion.

 

And on the 6 cd stacker thing if you read through it a bit it seems to be that the C8 C5 and C3 get a slightly different system so they do probably get the 6cd stacker unlike the C4 which gets the armwrest mounted one rather than the one that tucks into the dash or under seats in boot etc.

 

But you do still have a 6 cd system just a shame you dont get MP3 compatibility on the navidrive system.

[evilone]

As with the post that started this thread poor information at the point of sale causes problems.

 

In my case the saleman and citroen uk could not provide me with details on the navidrive, take a look at citroen.com under technologies and it clearly states 6 cd stacker.I would still have bought it if I was told it was a 5 cd stack.

 

I have never gone back to the dealer who sold me the car, it took the dealer I use now 10 months to get the visual display on the parking sensors working, 6 months to sort out the cd changer jumping when you used the armrest and I cannot find anywhere that tells me it has a space-saver spare wheel.

 

I have had enough of citroen uk being unhelpful and telling me talk to my dealer and my dealer telling me they need to speak citroen and they will call me back then not calling me.

 

Love the car hate the company. I will never buy a citroen again.

[wozza]

The spare isnt exactly a space saver its just smaller than your alloys in width slightly.

 

And i know they are a bit hopeless at getting spec's right. And half the time the dealers are usless but well once you find a decent dealer its not soo bad.

 

Just never trust a salesman afterall he is trying to get you to buy a car he will say things to help it sell.

[lee_marshuk]

Hehe - Citroen head office has now impressed me!

 

They called me back today, and I spoke to a girl who clearly knew what she was on about.

 

She admitted point blank that Citroen (PSA) did not have any license with TMC in the UK, and I should not have been sold it on that understanding - great.

 

Step 2 - the PSA group are currently signing with iTMC to provide TMC information in the UK for the next disk release later this year.

 

Hoorah! Hope this might help someone!

[evilone]

The spare isnt exactly a space saver its just smaller than your alloys in width slightly

WHY???

 

And i know they are a bit hopeless at getting spec's right. And half the time the dealers are usless but well once you find a decent dealer its not soo bad.

Where???

 

Just never trust a salesman afterall he is trying to get you to buy a car he will say things to help it sell

Salesman knew nothing about navidrive, phoned dealers around the country no one I spoke had seen a navidrive system. searched the net for reviews of the C4, even Mr Clarkson said good things about it.

Alternatives were Mazda 6 or Primera T-spec. Went for C4 on price.

[wozza]

How many cars get a full size 17" alloy with tyre for a spare? Plus how many cars spare wheel wells are big enough for a full size rim and tyre? The answer not many.

 

The navidrive thing is just one of those things that happens specs do change between cars unfortunately and countries. Like in france you can get a VTS with the 1.6 engine you cant here. Navidrive could have undergone similar spec differences in various countries and cars since its 1 system they change slighty for the car its going in. It doesnt even say if you get a colour or monochrome screen on the C4 in that bit on the citroen.com site.

 

And i had a look at the mazda3 before getting my C4 nice cars was thinking about getting a 2.0 sport as they were still cheap on insurance bose stereo climate xeons etc great spec'd cars for the cash as well reliable etc but much more boring. And rather ugly compared to the C4.

[lee_marshuk]

Just an update - I can confirm that I am now in possession of the Navteq 2006/07 CD for the UK, which has a banner on the front stating "Now includes Traffic Information from TrafficMaster" - and the TMC works an absolute treat!

[evilone]

How much did you have to pay for it.

[KevinK]

I'm in the same situation with my C5, which I bought about a year ago. Since then I've contacted Citroen customer services, as well as my dealer, countless times. CUK would say things like: "we'll refer the matter to our technical team", only to come back to me and tell me to go to the dealer etc. etc.

In the meantime I also found out, as you did, about the lack of licensing arrangement in the UK - though I heard this from bodies such as the TMC forum and ITIS.

Armed with this knowledge I just asked Citroen the closed question: "Does Navidrive allow me to receive and display TMC data in the UK?" They felt obliged to tell the truth, of course!

 

P.S. Lee, did you get your new CD from the dealer, or elsewhere?

[xavtia]

I cannot find anywhere that tells me it has a space-saver spare wheel.

 

The equipment specification states that the alloy wheels are set of 4 for all models, I assume the spare is the standard steel wheel from the VT/LX model but wouldnt want to be quoted on that.

 

Having owned Citroens for some years but always dealt with the dealer near my parents I decided to go to the local dealer having seen the C4 was fitted with cruise control when I asked the saleman about it he said its just a speed limiter, I'd done my home work before I went to look at it so went back and confirmed. Its a shame that so many are having problems because customer service is vitally important, but it isnt just Citroen, its happening everywhere.

 

When my astra got bumped my insurance company said I had to take it to the local ford dealers to be repaired <_< or not have a courtesy car, as I needed the courtesy car to get to work I took it in, I got a call to say your car is ready went on friday afternoon to collect and did the usual inspection, opened the back door and found a dent across the wheel arch and the interior full of paint dust, when I asked about this I was told the dent wasnt visible when the door was closed so whats the problem and the car was full of dust because the valeter was on holiday. I was unimpressed and said ring me when its done properly and left.

[CoolCarbon]

I was unimpressed and said ring me when its done properly and left.

 

Quite Right, a Man after me own heart.... <_<

[Stuey]

my car went to Ford to have the damage on my sig fixed. They did a bloody good job on it. That reminds me I should be able to clean this weekend if the weather is any good so I can put some new pics up.