Power Steering

[nn]

Today my power steering failed. I'm told its as a result of a faulty speed sensor and one of the knock-on effects is to cause confusion in the electrics and the power steering takes on a mind of its own.

It failed after I was holding the car on the clutch whilst waiting at traffic lights on a hill. There was a burning smell and when I set off the steering had failed. I often hold my car in this way (never been a problem with previous cars) - is it something I should not do? I'm a girlie and I don't know about these things . . . Can anyone help - I can't admit it to the Dealer can I?

:lol:

[AlanFC]

It only happened the once on my C3, Stalled it, started it and lost power steering. Pulled in up the road turned engine off, waited a few mins, started the car again and it returned, no probs since (2,000 miles).

I don't know whether your driving technique had anything to do with it but, I remember when I took driving lessons, I was given a gentle dig in the ribs whenever I forgot to put the handbrake on whenever I stopped.

Techniques may have changed since then but I would think you may be causing unneccesary wear and tear on your clutch using this technique (they are not cheap to change). Did you pass your test using this method, Or is it a habit which has developed over time?

Regards,

AlanFC

[AlanFC]

test

[nn]

Thanks Alan

There's lots of steep hills where I live and I would agree it's become a 'conscious' habit I have got into - not using the handbrake. (Because they never work). In fact I've often prided myself on being able to hold the car on bite without roll-back on a near vertical hill! Previous cars have coped well and I've never had a clutch problem (but perhaps the next owners have!!!!!). I must kick the nasty habit.

Still not sure why it should affect my power steering though.

Pleased yours is still OK.

[Guest Mark A]

> I've often prided myself on being able to hold the car on bite without roll-back

Thinking of the way that vehicle clutches work - they are friction devices - holding the thing on the clutch is going to shorten its life. The cure's simple though - just develop an equal pride in taking up the vehicle on the clutch before releasing the handbrake and not rolling back then either ...

It's odd that the power steering got involved with this though ... wonder where that sensor is?

Do clutch plates have smelly material built in to them to act as a telltale when they're distressed, does anyone know?

[toblerone]

Hi

Regarding the holding the car at biting point with the clutch, I have been taught this method and passed with it ( I passed in early March) and so far it has not caused any problems with my 2001 Citroen Xsara 1.4LX, althought it could be a different story with the C3. The handbrake in the xsara is not that good, and using the biting point allows you to get out of steep and tricky junctions easily.

Cheers
Toblerone

[nn]

Thanks everyone - you have all been really helpful. I think what I do with my clutch is not unreasonable given steep and tricky junctions in heavy traffic, and I'm now convinced I have a problem. It is always worse in warm weather too!! Good point though about making the thing smell as a 'warning'. Perhaps someone knows??????

As regards the sensor, I was told it is located at the back of the gearbox (yes, some girlies do listen to what they are told) and that the steering failed because the sensor had failed - not t'other way round. Car has been OK today but I will have the sensor changed - the Dealer said it was a known problem and they have seen it on some cars at the pdi stage!.

Thanks again.

@nn

[AlanFC]

Toblerone, do you mean that whenever you stopped, you did not put the handbrake on everytime and the examiner still passed you?
Or have I misunderstood?

Regards,

AlanFC

[Guest Mark A]

Thanks for starting the topic ...

Having had two instances of 'Power steering goes AWOL', each provoked by a stall, we had a third yesterday which was 'Interesting' in that it happened in perhaps similar situation to yours, but with the vehicle being braked to a halt at lights.

I suspect that we had a near stall with the engine revs dropping below some critical point ...

... which produced:

'beep beep beep' warning.

Handbrake light on.

ABS brake fault light or whatever came on.

On forward progress once more, speedometer reading zero mph.

Stopping after a few minutes, engine off, counting to sixty and restarting cancelled the abs brake fault light and the speedometer recovered. No power steering though. This was back again after a few minutes parked at our destination ...

The dealer's investigating this next tuesday and I'll report back with what they find. Last time they suspected a sensor but I had the impression that the vehicle hadn't saved any data for them. Bet Citroen will be familiar with this one by now though ...

On clutches, perhaps it's that while they're designed to slip for short periods, allowing them to heat them up unduly isn't kind to them - and brings the date when they will fail forward.

[AlanFC]

Yeah Mark, I bet that Citroen will indeed be familiar with this fault, just don't expect them to admit to it though!

It will be interesting to hear their response.

Regards,

AlanFC

[Guest Mark A]

Update: it's been out on the road today and lost the systems again, twice, and this time they didn't come back, so it's been hauled back to the dealers right now and they're speaking to it.

More shortly.

[nn]

Sorry to hear about that, I hope they can sort if out quick for you.

Unlike you, I didnt get any warning lights but luckily it happened 10 mins away from the dealer so I took it straight there and got it diagnosed on the spot. The sensor arrived in 24 hrs as promised and its now been fitted and they have just delivered the car back to me - so I've not driven it yet.

'Cos of the short notice they did not have time to look at the clutch today but they did say a C3 needs to be driven 'differently' to other cars because of the sensors!!!!!!!! Whats that all about? Soooooooooo, no stalling, no holding car on bite . . . . .

[toblerone]

Hi, I only put the handbrake on if I am goin to be stopped for a while at a junction or traffic lights. I passed first time with 4 minor faults. Incidently how would you rate the C3, thinkin of part-ex the xsara for a C3 1.4i desire.


Cheers
Toblerone

[nn]

Yep, Toblerone, thats what I was taught. They said keep moving - rather than stop - if you can. Like you, I passed first time and didnt have any faults. From what the Dealer said to me today though, we need to pass a new C3 test.

Would I recommend a C3? Yes I would - despite the niggles. Let us know if you decide to get one.

[organist]

Dear All,

I'm just wondering (as a driver who has a full Advance Driving Test Pass under his belt) what the Citroen Dealer is talking about when he says that "C3's have to be driven differently because of the sensors......."

What a load of cobblers!!!! You surely to goodness didn't swallow this did you?

I have never treated my C3 differently to any other vehicle I have driven over my twenty years of driving cars, and it hasn't failed me yet.

As regards the lady who holds her car on the clutch - I would suggest that she uses the handbrake - Clutches are a lot more expensive than brakes: I wouldn't fancy replacing a clutch on a C3 - oh no!

By the way, I also have a 1992 Toyota Carina (Old Style) which has just completed 139,000 miles on the ORIGINAL Clutch.......

I rest my case!


Richard the organist ;)

[AlanFC]

Toblerone,

Cant recommend the C3 1.4 desire specifically but depends on how you intend to use the car whether you should buy a diesel or a petrol etc. etc.

The C3 itself is a decent motor IMO , Plenty of room (think depth not length). Our 1.4HDi 16v has a turbo and intercooler, Discs all round puts out 92 BHP, (more then my Picasso!) and almost runs on air-65-70mpg!
If you do a lot of miles dont be put off buying a diesel cos 'Its a diesel' It is a real little firecracker. The 70hp HDi is reputedly no slouch either and gives the same mpg.

Regards,

AlanFC

[Guest Mark A]

Further update: The dealer investigated: the electronics were reporting 'Trouble wi't ABS block' (if I have that right) - which if so seems to cause various other things to throw a wobbly. Advice was not to move it until sorted, so it's with them till they think Tuesday - after they've had

a) a chat with a citroen techie and

;) had parts delivered overnight

- the dealership kindly produced a loan car.

More anon

Mark

[Guest Mark A]

Well it's Tuesday evening ... and the news is that the vehicle is likely to be with them until the middle of next week, after a problem with the spare on order stopped the job.

And the missing piece of the jigsaw? Citroen's parts ordering service (for the bit they need) is 'between computer systems and it can't be ordered until the eleventh' which is an odd one. Hope they've not used up the stock on the new builds instead :-0

More news when I have it ...

[nn]

Hi Mark
Sorry to read your news.
Guess I was lucky with my speed sensor last week. Could they get the bit you need from another garage? Its something my dealer mentioned. Just a thought. Might be worth a try. Unless you like your loan car!
@nn

[Guest Mark A]

I've had another update, the problem that Citroen have hit with the part seems to be as follows:

It's a 'coded part' - and it needs something of the software variety, specific to the particular vehicle chassis number.

This coding is done in France.

The equipment that does the coding is being renewed, the new equipment isn't available until at least the 11th of this month.

The part then has to wait its turn in the queue, and afterwards find its way to the UK.

The implication being that the vehicle is U/S for a few weeks. The dealership are however currently making good contingency plans for this.

[pork_pie]

Mark

i THINK you were told a load of baloney. When I had the EGR problem, I was told a part would arrive ina w eek.

One week later they said "a few days".

After three weeks I was told it was a coded part and that it it means a part is built for that particular car liek spare keys etc and takes 6 weeks.

Following week I was told that the dealer was ringing Peugeot and other Citroen delaerships for spare EGR (hmm I thought it was coded part and had to be built to order)

Part fixed after 2 months and it was not the problem.

The word "coded" is used to fob you off.

Next time you need to fill the washer bottle, citroen will tell you that using tap water invalidates the warranty and you must use Citroen Water. However Citroen water is a coded part........... you get the picture.

Good luck.