Car Appears To Apply Brakes When I Put Gear Stick In 4Th Or 6Th Gear

[PGrehan]

New to this forum, so hope that you may be able to help.

 

I left for work this morming, and drove from cold for approx. 6 minutes (approx. 3 miles travelled) with no problem, and then tried to engage 4th gear. When I did this the car slowed down as if brakes had been applied. I immediately disengaged 4th and went back into 3rd - 3rd gear worked normally. I tried engaging 4th again but had the same problem. I noted that the braking would occur once gear lever was put into 4th gear position even with clutch fully depressed, which would indicate to me that the braking is not due to engine braking but more likely due to brakes being applied (to be clear, I did not apply the brakes myself). Anyway, to cut a long story short, the problem also occurred in 6th gear as well (but not 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 5th) . After driving for a few minutes with this problem, it then stopped happening. Ambient temp outside was -1 celcius. Problem did not recur when I drove the car later on, or when driving home tonight.

 

I rang the dealer that sold the car to me. He checked the Citroen database but found no history of problems similar to this one.

 

The car is a Citroen C5 Mk Ii (X7) with 2.0 160hp diesel engine, 6 speed manual gearbox and hydractive suspension.

 

My concern is that it could happen again, and a car travelling behind could run into the back as a result. If anyone has experience similar to this, I'd be grateful if you let me know if/how the problem was resolved.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Porsche430]

That's a strange on and I don't even know where to start! In my honest opinion, I don't think it is technically possible for the gearbox/engine to force the brakes on without any input from the driver. The braking system is "fail safe" and practically a separate circuit from any engine component apart from the vacuum pipe (maybe check the condition of it but should be a problem, if there was a fault with the vacuum pipe if would make the brakes stiff).

 

My next step would be to carry out a further road test to 100% confirm the fault. My honest thinking is a fault with the gearbox.

 

If you are concerned, I would have the vehicle inspected by a Citroen dealership as soon a possible as this is obviously a safety related issue and don't drive the car unnecessarily if the problem persists!!!!! 

 

The car is a Citroen C5 Mk Ii (X7).

 

A MK3 C5 then? X7 relates to current C5.

 

Sorry I can't be of more help at the moment, I'm fairly stumped!

 

Let us know how you get on and welcome to the forum!

[paul.h]

Welcome to the forum.

 

Maybe you could have a look around the gear lever in case it catches some wiring in 4th and 6th that cuts the engine power rather than applying the brakes. There will be a cross shaft from the brake pedal to the passenger side footwell to the brake servo and there were some cases reported of a Citroen where a passenger could apply the brakes by pushing on the shaft - something to consider if you had a passenger. If it happens again, then see if you can get somebody to watch the brake lights as it happens and that may give a clue as to the cause.

[coastline taxis]

was it definatly gear related. what im getting at is what speed were you doin on both occasions was it the same speed when u were trying to get the gears. also have you had anty trouble with the speedo. im thinking along the same lines as porsche and the gearbox/diff.  but at such a early stage id be checking the abs sensors/system as ive seen them do funny things in the past  Was the braking from all 4 wheels.

 

j once had something similar on a mk1 c5 and basicly the clutch and the brakes share the same resivoir and the clutch master cylinder went daft and every time u pressed the clutch it forced fluid back into brake resivoir which inturn applied the brakes. that was a constant fault and not intermitant like yours so maybe signs of a clutch master cylinder fault

 Maybe a wait and see what happens problem as its going to be really hard to find this fault when the cars not doing it

[PGrehan]

Thank you for taking the time to reply, and for the welcome.

Firstly, since yesterday the problem has not recurred. I've driven to work this morning, and since have driven about 120 motorway miles (6th gear virtually all the way) without issue. I haven't noticed any unusual noises from brakes, engine or gearbox since the problem went away.

The car is a  2011 X7 model; I referred to it as a Mk II earlier, but perhaps I should have referred to it as a Mk III?

There was no passenger in the car at the time the problem occurred.

I can say it was definitely gear related to the extent that it was limited to when gear selector was moved to 4th or 6th position. I can't say with certainty at what speed the problem occurred at; it was likely between 30 and 55mph, but I couldn't swear to that. The speedo is working fine, and I think it was working fine during the time the problem was happening, but I wasn't focussing on that at the time so again, I can't be sure. I an be sure that depressing the clutch pedal wasn't the cause, as problem would only occurred after gear selector moved to either 4th or 6th position.

I know I have said that the car "braked" on selection of 4th or 6th, but whether it was the brakes or something else that caused it is open to question. It felt like the engine breaking that happens when you accidentally select 2nd gear when you intended to select a much higher gear.

 

It's a bit of a weird one, I agree. Given that it was -1 celcius when it happened, I'm thinking that it could be related to ice melting causing a temporary malfunction somewhere, but I may be clutching at straws.

 

I shall try and move the gaiter around the gear lever and see if any wiring is being disturbed, as suggested by paul.h. I presume it just unclips from the base.

 

If it occurs again I'll keep you posted.

 

Thanks again.

[Porsche430]

I'm glad to hear the car is performing as it should! Perhaps just a little hiccup with the car.

 

The following image will show you where the clips (a) that hold the gear stick gator in place are. These are dead easy to break, some very light persuasion by yourself pulling on the gator at each clip should make the come free. Once you get one going they'll all follow.

 

 

http://i.imgur.com/NqsUtVK.jpg

 

All the best...

 

[MikeLane]

Probably a daft suggestion as I don't know this vehicle but could it have been the gear selector, when pulled "down", interfering with the hand-brake cable for some reason (or does this C5 have an "electronic" hand brake)?

Edited January 29, 2015 by MikeLane

[paul.h]

Yes, the exclusive model of 2008 on C5 with the hydractive suspension has an electric handbrake which works on the back brakes. So something to consider since the wires may well be in the same area as the gear lever.

[PGrehan]

Thanks for your recent replies, Mike & Paul.

I think that you may be closer to the truth with your suggestions about the electric handbrake.

I tried applying the electric handbrake while moving a few days ago, and the resulting braking sensation was similar to what I remember from a week ago. Since the electric hand brake will not stay applied when vehicle is moving, as soon as I let it go it released.

I rarely leave any bits & pieces on the centre console around the gearstick, but as it happens I had a tube of hand cream sitting there last week. I'm thinking that what may have happened is that as I pulled the gear lever back into 4th or 6th, the tube sitting between the leather lever gaiter and hand brake lever got pushed back thus activating the hand brake.

Admittedly the above is only a guess as to the cause, but it is at least consistent with problem occurring only when pulling gear lever toward back of car - the fact that it did not occur when going into 2nd could be explained by the tube being on right hand side of lever. The problem ending after a few minutes could be due to the tube moving after the number of gear changes that I performed at the time.

Anyway, I'll pick up the hand cream from work tomorrow and see if I can find a position between gear lever and hand brake lever such that I can reproduce the above.

[MikeLane]

"the exclusive model of 2008 on C5 with the hydractive suspension has an electric handbrake which works on the back brakes."

 

The first time I've heard of a Citroen with a hand brake operating on the rear wheels. I suppose it's something to do with "hill start assist" and thus having more effect when the behicle tries to roll backwards.

(My MOT bloke is always amazed at the hand brake on my C5 being as effective as the foot brake!)

[paul.h]

The C3 and C4 have handbrakes on the back.

[Porsche430]

In most of my experience, the electronic hand brake will simply disable if it detects any fault what so ever until you have the vehicle checked by a technician. If the switch goes wrong, it would usually just stop working. I'm pretty sure the C5 has a manual override lever underneath the center console on the interior.

[PGrehan]

With the vehicle stopped, I put the tube of hand cream between gear stick and electric hand brake lever and pulled back the gear stick; sure enough, the movement of the gearstick forced the end of the tube onto the edge of the hand brake lever and lifted it up (I took a picture but I can seem to upload it). Based on this, I think that this is likely the cause of what occurred.

I wish I'd looked down to the gear lever when it happened, but when the car suddenly slowed down on me my first thought was that I'd accidentally selected the wrong gear, and after trying again my thoughts moved on to the engine or clutch being the issue.

 

Thanks to everyone for their replies to my post.

[Porsche430]

Okay then...

[paul.h]

Always nice when a problem is sorted at no cost. To put photos on the forum they need to be on another site such as photobucket and then a link to them can be put on the post.

[MikeLane]

The C3 and C4 have handbrakes on the back.

Oh yes. I remember sorting out my son's rear brake disks and pads! Pads down to the iron and heavily scored disks - and he wondered why his hand brake didn't work very well!!!

[Parkesie]

I have the electronic hand brake and it will not engage if the car is moving it will just bong and flash up on the dash. I know because i tried it to see if it would do handbrake turns :)

[C5Arthur]

I've experienced the identical issue - but it happened when I had left a mobile phone lying loose in the space between the gearstick and the electric brake - when I moved into 2nd (never got as far as 4th/ 6th but the same would have happened) the phone acted as a lever between the gearstick and the brake switch, putting on the brakes!!!   Quite a shock when your not expecting it!  So now I always check that that space is free from any clutter!!! :)