Car Choice Dilemma, Advice Needed

[citroenfan]

Hello. New driver here and looking to buy my first car very soon!! I've always liked Citroen (and that's nothing to do with the fact that I'm French lol ) though I always tend to assess them from an aesthetic point of view. I went to see a dealer a couple of weeks ago with a very open mind, I was after a 5 dr hatchback, petrol, reasonable mileage, something practical for a family as I have a 5 year old child. my husband was very keen on the vauxhall astra, we had one for 10 years and not a single problem but i wasn't too keen on the looks (apart from the turbo model which i can't afford). We then reached the Citroen corner, I was very interested in the C3, it looked cute and compact but with plenty of space inside....and then I laid my eyes on the DS3 and fell head over heels in love!!!! my husband was quick to drag me away before I put a deposit on it, it was a big no no due to it having 3 doors only and being considerably smaller. We went home very undecided but I was inconsolable, I kept dreaming of the DS3 and didn't want to look at any other cars. After many days of torture, my husband agreed to let me have it, it's my car after all and I need to be 100% convinced of my choice. Except I'm not now after reading the reviews about how inconvenient it is for a family. Our car seat will most likely fit in the back but the windows are so tiny my son will have a poor view from his seat. Plus there is the mechanism of sliding the front seat back and forth 5 times a day which can't do the car any favours, some people ended with broken seats. And more importantly there is the safety issue in case of a car crash or fire, the person on the back will be trapped. Anyway, after hours of reading and researching, 2 sleepless nights and some tears, I decided that the DS3 is not for me and told my husband that I would like to look at the C3 again. He was obviously delighted! I booked a test drive for this weekend (also booked a DS3 test drive which I haven't told hubby about yet, i just can't get it out of my mind and need to drive it to hopefully see for myself how impractical it is lol). Looking at the dealer's website today, i saw some C4 as well which I haven't looked at before. I think the C3 looks more stylish than the C4 but the specs of the latter are more attractive (sat nav, parking sensors which the C3 doesn't have) so I'm wondering what people think of those 2 cars? a quick search on google on the C4 didn't return very positive reviews but perhaps owners here could shed more light...Many thanks in advance

[arm987]

Hi new driver.

What a problem between two excellent cars. Please bear in mind

little doubt that your choice will be expected to last you quite a few years!

Your child will soon be out of a child seat at which stage the bit bigger car will be a boon,also just possible there may be more than one!!! Stranger things have happened.

My advice is to have a good long test drive in the C4. Really study the ease with which the amount of leg room in the back can be converted into a really spacious load carrier,either with all the seats folded down or only one. With one down this leaves room for at least 4 people and a long item. Very handy if the family increases! Cost? I think a low mileage c4 (say a demonstrater) is a better bet than a brand new car. The 1.6 diesel is without doubt the best family hack that money can buy,I have 2 one a very battered 2006 model with 76000 on the clock and the other 2014 model which I really love. Stay clear of the automatic,the 1.6 is the business. Mpg of Middle 40s if all you do is shopping and school run,long runs can with care provide over 50 mpg,the family chauffeur business comes later. Above all sit in back seat of both cars and observe the leg room. A long journey with one or more restless children in the back can be very trying,I have had that. Light steering,very powerful brakes and excellent visibility all round,the heater on the latest model is very quiet and works very well. I have said the brakes are very powerful takes a little time to get used to them and overall comfort level is first class. On both cars I have never had to spend a penny for anything that was not my own,or sons,doing. You are right the parking censors and the rest are most useful. I note you are French but I take it you live in U K. Here in UK it is usual to get a really good value in either a demo model or low mileage one the savings will buy a lot of fuel! Don't be afraid to try a few sellers and let them know you are interested in a deal,you will have them eating out of your hand if you go about it the right way,don't be afraid to keep the on a long piece of string.

Happy shopping lets know how you get on.

[arm987]

Re my last I forgot to draw attention to road tax,only 20quid per year!

[Porsche430]

Welcome to the forum. Looks like purchasing your first car is appearing quite stressful!

 

Are you looking for a brand new car or used car?

 

Citroen's are an excellent start for any new driver as it is a sensible, safe choice with a range of vehicles useful to everyone and their pockets. The C3 and DS3 drive much the same, only difference is the appearance. For a family choice, the C3 is the better of the two. My recommendation would be the new C3 1.2 PureDrive engine, depending on your driving needs.

 

The C4 is what it is and is very good at what it does. Best with the 1.6 DV6 diesel engine. Very capable car.

 

Why not have a look at the C4 Cactus when you are at the dealer? Fantastic family car with a big boot. I would advise driving before buying though as visibility can be an issue at the rear. I have bought a C4 Cactus myself from the garage I used to work at as a mechanic. 

[paul.h]

From your post, I suspect you want a car 2 or 3 few years old, but with not too many miles on it, probably similar in size to the Astra to comfortably fit 2 adults and 1 child. As you have said, I do not think a DS3 would be the best choice, despite how good it looks. It may help when you go to the dealer if you take things with you that you expect to carry - a man and a child plus their stuff, then try them in the car but when you go for a test drive leave them behind. You are going to get many different opinions on the car choice but first you should list your needs from the car such as:

 

1. How much you want to spend and how this will be financed - cash or a loan.

2. The cost of insurance - since this is the first car to be in your name you will not have any no claims discount and the larger the car and the more powerful the engine the more the insurance cost. You can look on such as Direct Lines site to get quotes for a car, even if you are just thinking of buying one. If you need to use a car number plate, use one from a dealer's photo of the model. Depending on where you live, you could be looking at £700-1000.

3. Whether you want a new car or older.

4. How many miles a year it will do - a petrol car costs less to buy than a diesel but if doing more than around 10k a year then a diesel could work out cheaper. Beware that the 1.6 diesel is prone to early turbo failure so ensure ones with this engine have a full dealer service history and you get a 12 month warranty - normal on a Citroen used/approved car - but not from some Citroen dealers such as Evans Halshaw (only 3 months but you can pay for a longer breakdown warranty).

5. How many years you intend to keep the car.

6. Do you have somewhere to keep the car that limits its size - eg garage/drive/roadside parking.

7. What type of journeys will the car be mainly used for and how much stuff will be carried - if short round town all the time then a small petrol car like a C3 is good. But if you will be carrying a lot then something larger may be needed. A diesel car used on just short trips may not be the best due to possible problems from the exhaust particulate filter blocking. If mainly long motorway trips then something larger will be more comfortable and in the event of an accident may be safer.

8. Are you bothered about any particular colours - a new car in white is cheaper than one in metallic, but the white one will need a lot of washing.

9. Will your other car be used as the main family car with this new one as the second car.

 

In my family we had/have a 2003/2010 C3 1.4 petrol, 2005 Xsara Picasso 2.0 diesel, 2008/2011 C4 1.6 diesel, 2004 2.2 diesel hatchback C5, 2007 2.2 diesel estate C5. The C3 is good for short trips round town with occasional long ones, the C4 is used as our main car for short and long trips being large enough/economical on fuel/comfy, the C5 is used for carrying lots of stuff and towing a caravan. If we did not have the caravan and we could only have 1 car, it would be the C5 since it can do everything the others do.

[citroenfan]

Many thanks for your advice. I forgot to say that I can only drive automatic cars hence the dilemma as the choice is not huge. It has to be used as i can't afford new plus it's a first car so i don't want to go over the top. Husband won't go near Diesel as "they are not as efficient as they claim to be" so i won't even get into that debate and lose the battle so petrol it is. I will be using the car to go to work (20 miles each way on the motorway), do the school run and shopping in town and the occasional weekend trip 3 or 4 times a year. The C3 i saw is a 2011 1.6 exclusive trim, 22000 miles at £5.3 k so i think (hope) it's a good deal! I will keep you posted. Edited February 10, 2015 by citroenfan

[coastline taxis]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2007-Citroen-C5-EXCLUSIVE-HDI-Diesel-Silver-Automatic-/221656160493?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item339bbc98ed

 

job done. ur getting a lot of car for your money and will last u years

[arm987]

Hi

Further thoughts,the moderator draws attention to the important matter of insurance. What I did was as follows. I retained ownership and named first driver on number 1 car on the second car my son was main driver but the policy and ownership was in my name. My wife is named driver on both cars,I presume you have a good record and have been driving for some time. I suggest you ring Liverpool and Victoria insurance explain situation and ask for quote both cars. After hunting a great many companies I discovered this method to be miles less expensive than any other and one of my friends who followed this method saved over £400 on a mix of two motors. The fact that your husbands car may not be due insurance at this time will not be important. The main problem with all insurance companies is they quite often change their way of working so if you find my info out of date please forgive. I spent over 30 years in the Insurance business,boy am I glad to be retired! There is a lot more to having two cars than just deciding which you fancy.

I have found L and V very easy to deal with. Last year my son was in England for a few months they allowed the second can to be kept at an English address and did not charge anything extra. We live in Northern Ireland.

 

Am sure you will be relieved when all the details are sorted.

[Porsche430]

 I retained ownership and named first driver on number 1 car on the second car my son was main driver but the policy and ownership was in my name.

 

Is this not illegal?

[arm987]

If this is illegal do you think LandV would underwrite it? Can't understand why you think it illegal? Explain please!

[Porsche430]

To my understanding, the main driver must have ownership and insurance in their name?

[paul.h]

When our daughter became the main driver on our C3, Direct Line would not let the existing policy continue (where I was the main driver using it for work, the policy was in my name with her a named driver). We had to cancel it and take out a new one in her name as the main driver and I then became a named driver (but I still paid for it). The car still remained mine and registered in my name - however, this does make the policy more expensive but is allowed. When this car was replaced, the new one was all in her name, registered and owned.

 

The C3 2011 Exclusive should be a good choice. Our daughter's C3 is the 1.4 vti 95 bhp petrol and that is ok on the motorway with enough power so a 1.6 should be even better. The previous 1.4 75 bhp petrol one was a bit underpowered for motorway use. If you try it though and think you could do with something a bit larger, try the C4.

[Porsche430]

I don't have kids but I had bother when allowing my wife to drive one of my cars. I drive a Citroen C4 Coupe at the moment and the insurance is in my name, with me as the main and only driver. However, I also have a Peugeot 206 CC under my care which I never use but had the same kind of insurance. Within the last 6 months or so, my wife was needing a car more so I fixed up the 206 to make it safe and put her on as a named driver. However, she got two speeding tickets from officers (not cameras) since then and the insurance got wind of this and then assumed she was the main driver and cancelled the policy unless I could prove otherwise. I couldn't and she had to be come main driver and I took my name off completely. It is now very, very expensive. This insurance is with Kwik Fit, wouldn't recommend. Looking to change when I get my new C4 Cactus and when policy on 206 expires in 1 year from now.

[coastline taxis]

its called fronting and a quick google will explain everything to you

[arm987]

Think for a moment what happens with company cars. There are 10 cars each has a named driver but they all belong to the company. There is only one policy each driver has a piece of paper showing who owns the motor and who is the keeper. In many cases they can all drive whatever motor is handy or there may be restrictions. Police cars,fire engines ambulances and such like. In my original comment I did warn that not all companies are the same some,believe it or not try to make life easy for the family others like to get the arm in as far as possible. Yes there are laws re driver and owner mine is quite clear and is as described in my original note. But check out for yourself and remember I have the policy document and it is worded as I explained. I repeat.

I own two cars I am the main driver on no 1 with my wife age75 and son age 40 as named drivers car 2 has my son as main driver,my wife and I as named drivers. The cost of this is arrived at taking into account driving experience age etc one charge and one policy. Both cars belong to me, only I can sell and both show my home address. Last year my son went to Cambridge for a few months,I thought there would be a problem but no. The company altered the address of one car and here is a strange fact because the post code in Cambridge had a better rate than here in N Ireland I actually got a small rebate! Once he came home again overall cost went back to original. Within the last few months I have renewed the policy no change was necessary. The Scottish driver does say he is the main and ONLY driver,think about it!

 

It really does pay to shop around and compare policy conditions,the employes of one company are schooled in the rules laid down by their actuary and will quite often quote these as fact and law. To be unkind there are those who,make it up,as they go along and at all times to get the most out of of the driver.

[citroenfan]

Wow, I knew nothing about insurance but this post turned out to be very enlightening lol, thank you all. 

 

Thanks Paul. h for the recommendation, I think the C3 will be fine, I don't need a bigger car as my husband will also be upgrading soon and his tends to be the main car. I might recommend the C4 to him though. 

[citroenfan]

Oh forgot to ask: what about reliability? most reviews I read or watched of the C3 were by new owners who hadn't driven the car for very long. Anyone here experienced problems with the engine, car breaking down etc? before the Citroen, I had contemplated the Renault Clio but whilst the car looks good and is packed with technology, the engine wasn't very popular amongst owners and loads of people complained about breaking down in the middle of the road and having to visit the garage several times a year. I know from experience that the Vauxhall astra wouldn't give me any hassle and i'm hoping that the C3 would be equally reliable? Also, how much is road tax for the 1.6 petrol engine? 

[paul.h]

Our Citroens have been the most reliable cars we have owned but they have all been low mileage. You will also get a 12 month warranty from a Citroen dealer so if there are any problems they should not cost you anything to fix. On the C3/C4/C5 Technical sections there are pinned lists of Common Problems. On forums most people join when they have a problem so tend not to give a true picture of reliability.

 

A C3 Citroen brochure for Nov 2010 gives the 1.6 vti 120 bhp petrol auto fuel economy as 29.1/52.3/40.4 mpg urban/extra urban/combined with 160 g/km CO2 - this gives road tax as £180 a year. The C4 with the same engine/gearbox gives 28.2/55.4/40.9 mpg and 159 g/km. Possibly the C3 is not as good as you may expect since it is quite tall - you will notice this when it needs washing. Without the auto gearbox, the 1.6 C3 gives 35.3/57.6/47.1 mpg and 138 g/km CO2 so £130 tax. If you did not pass the driving test in a manual car, it could pay to do this in the future to keep your car costs down.

 

If you need rear parking sensors they were only an option on the Exclusive model so may not have been fitted.

[arm987]

Wow, I knew nothing about insurance but this post turned out to be very enlightening lol, thank you all. 

 

Thanks Paul. h for the recommendation, I think the C3 will be fine, I don't need a bigger car as my husband will also be upgrading soon and his tends to be the main car. I might recommend the C4 to him though.

 

Really pleased you have made mind up. In a past post you say husband is not a diesel fan,pity this because the 1.6 d engine is the finest in the UK used by a number of other companies ( I believe Forde has it in one of their b max models) what is there not to like in £20 year road tax and mpg between mid 40s and over 50. I have only known of one who has had turbo problem a very early Picasso,160000 on the clock. The particle filter,all that is required is a fast run on a motorway once or twice a month this cleans out the system and by the way I have never met anyone who has had any expensive problem.

I bet a tenner if your husband had a good test run in 1.6d picasso he would be converted,it's a cracker.

[citroenfan]

Hello, just thought I'd let you know I bought my car today!  :)

 

I booked a test drive of a DS3 and a C3. I knew I wasn't going to buy the DS3 but just wanted to satisfy my curiosity and I was hoping to get seduced by the C3 but once there I walked past a C4 and was totally blown away!! I had seen the car online and didn't think much of it but was very impressed once i stood in front it. I think it's one of the prettiest and smartest looking hatchbacks out there and I can't understand why Citroen decided to target 50 + males only when it marketed the car. I am female under 40 and didn't have any issues handling the car. I couldn't believe how comfortable it was and the space was amazing, I could fit my house inside that boot! The steering (which a lot of people think is light) was perfect for me, the brakes were a little sharp initially but you quickly get used to them. My car is automatic and I drove it for 5 min doing less than 30 m/ph so didn't quite experience the full potential of the gearbox but i'm hoping it's not going to give me any grief as it's a full auto not the EGS which a lot of people complained about. I also tested a Vauxhall astra 2.0 turbo diesel but found it quite a beast and the engine was very noisy. I felt more comfortable driving the C4 1.6 petrol and the car was incredibly quiet inside. Overall very pleased with my purchase, it was love at first sight and I'm hoping it will be long lasting! Many thanks for all your help.

[paul.h]

I think you have made the better choice, the C4 being larger than the C3 is more of a family car and has more room in the back for passengers.

 

Things to watch for as a new driver of a C4, the seat head rests are quite large and can get in the way when trying to look around, the door mirrors are a nice shape but they do not give a good view of cars on the motorway that are overtaking so need to be careful when lane changing, if the rear windows and tailgate window are tinted they take a bit of getting used to - at night I used to think the mirror was set in the dim position, the blade in the ignition key is at right angles to ones on other cars so it takes a bit of getting used to when putting it in the ignition switch and helps if the key is laid flat in your fingers.

 

The car may not have a spare wheel/jack/wheel nut brace/yellow plastic tool to remove the plastic wheel bolt caps/plastic tray that these go in and rests in the spare wheel - these were an option and the car was normally supplied with a yellow electric pump and a tube of puncture sealant (which has a use by date of about 3 years). To buy the wheel, etc is about £200 from a dealer.

 

If you want to look at the car handbook it can be read/saved/printed from the service.citroen site - you may need to select your language first http://service.citroen.com/ddb/

[arm987]

Good,welcome to picasso C4. You are saying all the right things and best of all found out for your self just how apealing this model is. I traded in a less than one year old Ford B max and have no regrets. I do hope the auto does not show any signs of trouble,there have been a fair number of complaints over last 12 months just hope these are now sorted. Keep a wary eye and ear to it and first sign of problem get in to your dealer and do not be one bit soft with them.

Is it a used car?if so can you trace the prev., owner if this possible try and make contact and ask about the auto. The petrol 1.6 is quieter than my D mpg not so good but I fully understand why you went that way.

Do you have a spare wheel? The latest system is a kit to blow up tyre enough to get to a tyre depot. If this is all you have here are a few pointers.

Usually a tyre depot will not repair a tyre that has been subjected to the emergency treatment. In other words a new tyre. People in the trade tell me the new system is the best sale aid ever for new tyres.

The replacement container of the stuff that goes into tyre costs an arm and a leg check this out with Citeron spares.The cost of this item plus a new tyre will more than buy a spare wheel from any car breaker, in most cases either a regular wheel or the skinny type will be available and either unused or almost so. Last and not least if you bought from a Citeron dealer you may have got a years breakdown cover,this is good but possible does not cover for wheel changing again check this. Although my car was only 1500 miles and was a demonstrator the 1 year breakdown cover does not cover wheel changing. I got a spare wheel as part of the deal.

Happy motoring anything I have said here will apply to any sort of car and is not intended to throw any bad light on my favourite. You will have this for many happy motoring years.

By the way what colour did you get?