ClareB Posted July 30, 2004 Posted July 30, 2004 My Pluriel leaked from the start and despite many attempts by the dealer and even a visit from someone from Citroens technical team to fit the latest seals, it still leaks. My selling dealer went bust, so I had to persuade another dealer to take on my case and submit exchange forms to Citroen. It has taken 10 weeks for Citroen to agree to an exchange car, but I am still waiting for a firm offer as I do not want another Pluriel and so I need a value offer, that I can use against another new car. I have found that dealing with Citroen is a long, frustrating and difficult process.............. Quote
lesley Posted August 1, 2004 Posted August 1, 2004 :huh: 5 times back to dealer for "water ingress" as they call it!!! taking to car wash on monday for thorough check. Quote
billysmate Posted August 5, 2004 Posted August 5, 2004 Well what can i say, 12 months on and ive just taken delivery of my spanking new C3. B) I also had water leaks and im pleased to report all is well. My last C3 spent a total of 26 weeks out of 49 with the dealership, eventually Citroen exchanged the car, so we now have a storm grey 1.4 diesel. The build quality of this was far superior to the first C3, came with all the MODs completed. The day we picked it up the heavens opened like nothing id seen and not a drip in sight. The only time i got any watermarks inside was from opening the door. Shame it took so long to complete the exchange. I found that calling citroen on a regular basis helps as they appear to be more responsive to us the customers than to the dealerships. My understanding of the exchange is this :- Dealership contacts citron requesting exchange and provides details of the value of your car, the replacement cost, outlining to citroen what it is going to cost them. We changed from a petrol to a diesel and paid the difference (£700). our car was walued at trade at 6K :huh: I turned up at the dealership with my £700, invoice complete drive away. Quote
hertsnminds Posted August 5, 2004 Posted August 5, 2004 That's something they don't tell you when they sell them...halves in value after 12 months and that is with less than 10,000 miles on it I expect (from 29 weeks laid up). Just got an elect 3 quote off the Citroen website... 1.4 Pluriel Price £12.095.01 Deposit £ 1,500.00 1st payment £ 398.98 23 payments £ 258.98 Future value after 2 years and 12,000 miles (6,000 a year) £6,572.00 So to be offered £6,000 after less than 12 months is NOT what Citroen say the value will be. Ian Orange 0e Senso Quote
gar200 Posted August 5, 2004 Posted August 5, 2004 I too took delivery of new replacement car back in March this year... If all the old posts were still on here my plight would be there.. All I will say is yes the new seals work....as long as you fit the arches correctly! Mine did leak twice after I had removed the arches but after taking it back to the dealer and them looking at it it doesn't leak...so my only warning is to take your time and ensure you fit the arch correctly. I have been told the best way is to insert the front prong while holding the arch at an angle into the car then swing the back into position, effectivlely pushing the front of the arch into the outside seal to creat good seal. my old car with 5000 miles on the clock and 03 reg went back on sale at the dealership for £9000! but I also negocitated a deal on exchange for £500 worth of accessories....so its worth persisting... Gar :huh: Quote
dobbin Posted August 6, 2004 Posted August 6, 2004 Glad to hear that some of you have been successful with exchanges and are now happy with your new pluriels. I'm currently going down this route but cannot decide if to risk another pluriel or go for a standard C3 instead. Do you really believe the water leaks are fixed? I recently had the new chunkier seals with the extra channels fitted on my Pluriel, and it leaked the very next day. The technicians checked the fitting for me and it leaked again the day after that. Hence the dealer has applied to Citroen on my behalf for an exchange . PS. Ian - I don' think its quite fair to say the value halves as it looks like you can now get a deal on a new Pluriel for about £2K less than the list price. So if you can buy a 1.4 for ~£10K and its *guaranteed* value in 2 years is ~£6.5K then I don't think that is too bad. Quote
eeijc Posted August 6, 2004 Posted August 6, 2004 I haggled my dealer down to 9.5k for my storm grey 1.4 (including the extra 300 for met paint), so, yes, any depreciation calculation has to be based on the real purchase price, which is certainly not 11k. I have to say I'm very happy with my Pluriel. The arches have been off whenever the weather permits however with the roof erected in torrential rain, only ever let a tiny bit of water seep in - this I think I have cured with a discrete smear of silicone grease in the overlapping join above the side window (do [i]not[/i] use vaseline, folks). While I love my Pluriel and wouldn't swap it for anything else on the road, I do feel for the people with persistent problems though. Quote
dobbin Posted August 6, 2004 Posted August 6, 2004 The best way to stop mine leaking is to take the roof and arches off and use the rain cover tonneau. Ironic that its more watertight without the roof than with it! This is no good for driving of course...... Quote
hertsnminds Posted August 7, 2004 Posted August 7, 2004 One thing I have noticed with the new seals is the bucket of water over the door trick! If there have been a couple of rainy days the seals seem to store water in them until the car is moving...the first time you break water streams down the windscreen...if it is a sunny day and you have the roof open the water in the gully can be blown onto your head. As for real prices for new Pluriel I know there are people on the list who paid the RRP when the car first came out and book prices (i.e. dealers guides) always list RRP's. I am sure you would tell your insurance company the RRP not what you paid for the car as a replacement value, just in case Citroen ever stop the discounts. Ian Orange 03 Senso Quote
gar200 Posted August 9, 2004 Posted August 9, 2004 Well i have now found a new leak on the new pluriel... My spanking new car as replacement for last years has been back twice for ingress through the seals but each time the dealer puts the arches back on it doesn't leak....UNTIL NOW! After rain today (the arches haven't been touched since last at dealership) water has seeped in throught the driver side seal but worse is this....! The other nite after rain I turned a corner and my passenger got soaked when water poured through the 'clip' that locks the arch in place. It had obviously stored in some little hole then when i hit the right angle turning a corner or breaking it poured in...and i mean poured! It was probably a cup of water. Today I didn't even have to start the car....water was dripping freely from the clip after rain leaving a nice damp patch on the passenger seat...when I did move off a mini flood hit the seat... Car is booked in for next Monday 16th...so will see what happens....3rd time lucky with 2nd car? I think not... And to top it all the CD changed has stopped working! I'm going back to Watchdog to see if they can help me get my money back.... Quote
dobbin Posted August 10, 2004 Posted August 10, 2004 Sorry to hear this Gar200. That must be REALLY annoying. My dealer is very confident that the new pluriels do not leak, but I did not 100% believe them, and now I am even more skeptical. I guess they have to say that, as they couldn't ever publicly admit they cannot solve the problem. If my exchange request is successful (there'll be serious trouble if it isn't!!) then I think I am going to ask for a standard C3 instead. Its a shame, but I don't want to go down the same route again of spending more time at the dealership than at home (thats me, not just the car!). Good luck with whatever you decide to do next. Quote
ClareB Posted August 10, 2004 Author Posted August 10, 2004 [QUOTE] I'm going back to Watchdog to see if they can help me get my money back.... gar200 - Watchdog have been on holiday all Summer and have not been replying to me. I suggest you try the What Car helpline on whatcar@haynet.com, Ray Castle, the editor has been very helpful. My current position is that a resolution is still not sorted, I am now waiting to hear if an exchange car is eligible for the current Citroen Cashback offers. I know what I think the answer should be. Quote
gar200 Posted August 10, 2004 Posted August 10, 2004 I have sent the following e-mail to the watchdog reporter who did the story earlier this year.... Stuart, You dealt with this investigation earlier this year and spoke with myself, however, my part in the program was dropped as I had recevied a resolution in getting an exchange car. I received the exchange car at the end of March and to date it has been back to the dealership twice due to 'water ingress' through the arch seals. Both times the dealership have explained its the way I replace the arches, and fair enough, after them doing it in the workshop I experienced no leak until I had removed the arches and replaced them. Until now.... The arches have not been touched since the last time at the dealers and i have water ingress on one side where it usually occurs, but worse is a mini flood of water that soaked my passenger which came through another part of the roof arch where water had obviously built up and when i braked this flooded in...and has now just started dripping regardless... The car is booked in again on 16th Aug... There is obviously still an inherenet fault with these cars and any help Watchdog could give to owners to get their money back would be wonderful. The new improved seal on the 04 models seem to be better but not perfect. I know from our Pluriel forum a lot of folk are still waiting for replacements, but are not even more dubious after hearing what I have had to say... I am now of the opinion that I just want my money back and will be writing to the dealership to say such very shortly. I look forward to hearing from you to see if Watchdog will take up this continuing saga. Quote
hertsnminds Posted August 10, 2004 Posted August 10, 2004 It would be more than helpful if rather than just fitting the arches for you so they do not leak the dealer actually explains to you the "correct" way to fit them. In fact if Citroen have changed the way the arches should be replaced they should be issuing an update to the owner handbook so every owner is aware of the way the arches should be replaced. I know this would be far too helpful and would mean Citroen admitting they are not perfect, 2 things which will probably never happen. Interesting to hear that the RRP might actually have a reason to exist, all be it just another way to pull a fast one with replacement car vaules. I think every Citroen salesman should be made to drive a Pluriel for at least 1 month, during which time they must remove the arches at least 4 times. then let them tell us they NEVER leak! Ian Orange 03 Senso Quote
dobbin Posted August 10, 2004 Posted August 10, 2004 gar200 - do you think it is probably coincidence that your arches didn’t leak when the dealer fitted them rather than anything special about how they did it? I don't know the details of course, but thats what I would guess. In any case, it shouldn’t be a difficult procedure or the whole point of the car is lost. However, I have noticed that the latest seals make the arches harder to fit as there seem to be more rubber flappy bits that seem to make a tighter seal. However mine still leaks as badly as ever! As for the price that Citroen will refund/exchange, I don’t know what to say! ClareB - have you been told that you will have to "pay" the RRP for the replacement? I paid £10,695 for my Pluriel and therefore if my exchange request is granted then I will expect to have £10,695 to put towards whatever replacement I choose, and I expect to get a good deal at whatever the going rate is today. Anything less that this and I will insist on a full refund. After all, I am the one who has been severely disadvantaged by having a faulty product for 8 months! Its not like they are doing me a favour by replacing the car – its my basic legal right to receive what I paid for (in 100% working order) or have my money returned to me in full. In actual fact, I don’t expect my dealer to try to pull a fast one as they have been very good about the whole process so far. Citroen UK might try something (via the dealer) but they will get a very short answer from me if they do. If that happens then I will be forced to go down the legal route, but I am very much hoping to avoid that. I don’t think Citroen want to go down that route either as they don’t have a leg to stand on. Quote
gar200 Posted August 10, 2004 Posted August 10, 2004 Dobbin...could just be coincidence, but who knows....I am literally now sat typing a letter to the dealership to say that if they can't solve the problem this time then I am expecting a FULL refund of the £12,000 i paid just over a year ago or a replacement (different model) to that value. I've had it with the Pluriel....I love it, a cheap convertible thats fun an funky to drive....but I think the word that stands out there is 'cheap'.... It doesn't work....i wish now i had have invested a bit more and bought a 'proper' convertible. Will keep you posted! Quote
ClareB Posted August 11, 2004 Author Posted August 11, 2004 I have been offered a full refund of what I paid a year ago and I also expect to be able to cash in the £50 voucher for late delivery of the boot cover - my voucher arrived after my selling dealer went bust and expired before the new one was appointed, so I was never able to use it. As for a replacement car I never wanted another Pluriel and always expected to recievce the same deal as any new customer would - that means the price I expect to pay includes the cashback offer, not the RRP. I have decided on a Picasso and had got as far as trying to order one, only to be told that Citroen Customers Services must decide if I am allowed any cash back. So I'm waiting again............... Quote
jennybash Posted August 13, 2004 Posted August 13, 2004 When I got my replacement car the discounts were on, when I bought my car I paid FULL RRP. When I asked if we could take advantage of the savings the dealer said no. I think this is because they have taken advantage of them as technically when the dealership replaces your car they have to sell yours, use the money from that to fund the payment of the new one. Hence if they use the discount they pay less!! Cheeky I Think..... BUT I think Citroen have 'ballsed up' as they have sent me a letter confirming that I was able to take advantage of the discounts at the time I bought my new car mmmmm I don't think so. I think I might just have to reply..... What do you all think?!? Am I right in thinking that there should have been some benefit from being an initial ginea pig or am I wrong? Help please? :P Quote
hertsnminds Posted August 13, 2004 Posted August 13, 2004 I don't think they would go for the guinea pig arguement. However, if you have a letter from Citroen stating you were entitled to the discounts when you purchased your car and you paid full RRP then either the dealer or Citroen owes you some money. Either the dealer did not tell you about the discount you were entitled to and they should pay up or Citroen did not tell the dealer and Citroen should pay up. Ian Orange 03 Senso Quote
gar200 Posted August 18, 2004 Posted August 18, 2004 ok - reply on a couple of things....when i got my new car in March as replacement I signed something to say that the cashback would not come to me but the dealership....so check the purchase agreement carefully. I just thought fair enough...this is a replacement car after all. I did get one of those letters about discount but I assume they are just generated automatically on purchase processing. So I ignored it having signed a disclaimer. 2nd...just got my car back after the ultimatum last time fix - they say no leaks and they left a hose running at it for 2-3 hours and left it out in downpour yesterday. (by the way, and they told me this, Citroen DO NOT advise using hosepipes or jet wash against the seals! - but they did to rigorous test) But I can see some water sitting in the seals and I just know that after another shower or in a couple of weeks its going to start coming in again. At that point I heading for refund or new (different) replacement car to the value of original £12k. (got my eye on MoS C2!! souped up sound system!) I'll glad Claire you have been offered full refund and i will use your case... My dealership has been good to me granted....its just the car at fault....in fact the last 3 days while the car has been in (ok so they had a threatening letter last week!) they have called me every day to let me know what they are doing and did not have to fork out for the courtesey car as usual. Will keep you posted after the next rain shower... Quote
hertsnminds Posted August 18, 2004 Posted August 18, 2004 It seems to me it is a question of WHEN not IF it leaks again. Have Citroen contacted owners of cars that have never leaked to actually see the difference between these and those that leak no matter how many seals you replace? If every car leaked then you could say it was a design fault. However, we know that some don't, which means they can be made watertight. But does this mean faulty cars can be fixed? One more thing...gar, check they have not raised the windows too much so that the seals get pulled off when you shut the doors, mine is going back to have the windows adjusted for that next week. Ian Orange 03 Senso Quote
gar200 Posted August 19, 2004 Posted August 19, 2004 Ian...its going back to get windows looked at!! LOL (why am i laughing!!??) Dont think they are too high though...but i think they have pulled the whole doors in tighter and when raising the passenger side front window its struggling as its too tight to the rear one....(ho hum!) Quote
hertsnminds Posted August 19, 2004 Posted August 19, 2004 You mean that lovely sound of creaking glass! Yes I have that, just waiting for the wrong combination of pressure and heat expansion/contraction to crack the glass. But this could be fixed by lowering the closed postion by a mm. Most car windows have height and lateral adjustment...it is just more relevant in vehicles with no frames to support the glass. I will try and get some before and after pics. Ian Orange 03 Senso Quote
dobbin Posted August 19, 2004 Posted August 19, 2004 [quote name='hertsnminds' date='Aug 18 2004, 05:14 PM'] If every car leaked then you could say it was a design fault. However, we know that some don't, which means they can be made watertight. But does this mean faulty cars can be fixed? [/quote] I understand that it is possible that some cars come off the production line slightly "skew". By this I mean that some of the panels, windscreen pillars, doors, roof arches, etc are not in the perfect alignment that the design requires. This is very common on most cars, particularly soft tops and early production runs of a new model. A fault of maybe 2-3mm (very possible on some cars) could make a huge difference in the fitting of the roof seals. If this is the problem, it is unlikely that it will ever be solved by technicians refitting new seals or "refitting the arches correctly" which seem to be Citroen's solutions to this. Quote
gar200 Posted August 20, 2004 Posted August 20, 2004 :( :angry: :blink: :angry: Well the inevitable has happened today during light but prolonged rain....INGRESS through the new super duper car with its new super duper refitted seals..... Guess Ian you were right...not IF but WHEN it leaked! Just made my call to the dealership to inform them and they said lets book it in...I said no. I told the guy to get on to his manager who i wrote to last week to act on my letter which now comes into force. i.e. this time is the last time! I am now going to attempt to get either my full £12k refund or a replacement car to the same value. Fingers, toes and everything crossed! Lets see if they are as good now as they were last year.... As usual will keep you posted! Gar. :huh: Quote
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