Hi All New To Forum Hoping For Some Help

[Pj10]

Hello I'm Peter I am looking for any help on a electrical issue I have with my citroen berlingo van I will just blurt it all out and hope someone picks up on my post and can help or point me in the right area I should be posting

Right berlingo 2.0hdi 2003 model

Glow plug light does not illuminate and when cold it takes longer to crank but still starts fairly Easly gives out a puff of smoke after start up runs well but not 100% until warm

At the relay 12v supply going in nothing coming out

Glow plugs to the the relay (8mm thread) has continuity

On 5 pin connector that connects to relay

Earth (terminal1) to terminal 3 constant 12v

Earth to terminal 4 0 volts weather ignition is of on or van is running always 0 volts

Earth to terminal 5 12volts when ignition is on and stays 12volts for 10-15 seconds after ignition is turned of

Terminal 2 is unused

So my question is this normal at the 5 way connector

Will new relay and glow plugs resolve this or is it deeper routed

 

Also central locking is playing up just thought I would mention incase it's related

Any help would be great

Regards peter

[Pj10]

Also just to add left van running for ten mins and terminal 5 was still 12v terminal 4 still 0v

[paul.h]

Welcome to the forum.

 

First thing to check would be the engine coolant temperature sensor using a code reader with live data. When the engine is cold it should read about the ambient temperature, so about 5 to 10°C. Then once the engine is warmed up about 95°C. If it is reading high it may not be switching on the glow plugs when needed on a cold day and also it may not be giving the correct fuel/air ratio. You could also check the inlet air temperature (IAT or AIT)  to see if this is ok at the same time - it will tend to be a bit above ambient once the engine has warmed up, possibly around 30°C.

[Pj10]

Ok thanks for reply I will start looking into that then so am I right in presuming this would stop the relay clicking into action if the temp sensor is faulty also that every thing seems normal at 5 way connector now I think about it the needle on temp gauge never sits in middle always below and runs jumpy on low revs

[Pj10]

Only when driving tho it's ok at idle

Thanks again for reply

[Pj10]

Ok it's cheaper to just replace the sensor than have someone read codes as I do not have diagnostic equipment the sensor is only £10 plus vat would I not be getting really iratic idle and temp gauge soaring if it was temp sensor I tested glow plugs they are all ok

[Pj10]

What I mean is if it was reading high and not letting glow plugs operate would It not also be reading high on my gauge

[paul.h]

Probably but at the low ambient temps when first starting it may not show up on your gauge until warmed up a bit. If the sensor is ok, a low running temp is often due to a faulty thermostat. You could measure the resistance across the temperature sensor contacts and when cold you would expect to see around 2000 to 3000 ohms (depending on the sensor) which will reduce as it warms up to maybe around 200 to 300 ohms at about 90°C when the thermostat should open. If you run the engine with the sensor wiring disconnected it may cause a fault code to come up so any checks should be done when the engine is not running.

 

If you did get another sensor, you could simply plug it in to the electrical connector without fitting it but still touching an earth point. This test would see if it makes a difference to starting.

 

If you want to get a code reader this one from Gendan seems good value at £39 and gives some engine live data. You would need to check if it covers your car since diesel EOBD was not required until 2004 https://www.gendan.co.uk/product_FXNT200.html

 

I do not know if your checks on the relay are normal maybe another member will comment on it.

[Pj10]

Ok right just removed relay to start with and the 10mm thread with constant 12v to it is no longer fixed it as broke loose inside relay and can be pushed down until it nearly drops inside the relay itself I am just checking the temp sensor now as for the temp it sits steady but below 90 more like 85 if the thermostat is faulty could this be the cause or is it another issue thanks

[Pj10]

Changed sensor and relay now it's worste I get Mel light when accelerating won't go over 3000 revs only started after removing sensor dumped about 1 litre coolant

[paul.h]

Is the temp sensor the right one from a dealer - if not it may be giving the wrong resistance and putting the engine light on. It could now be in limp mode with the light on which will limit the performance. Did you disturb anything else when changing it that has not been put back ?

 

If it is not the sensor or anything else obvious and the light does not go off after a few on/offs of the ignition then you may need to use a code reader to find the fault and then delete the code.

 

Did you get all the coolant back in and the air bled out ?

 

The Haynes manual for the C5 gives the thermostat opening setting as 83°C for a diesel so it could be the same for your car. If so you would expect the engine to be a bit above this. I do not know what temp the engine fan would cut in at but typically this is about 96°C.

[Pj10]

The light was on before sensor was changed in confident it is not that it just on off constantly I have done 20 miles still limp mode I have topped water up but not bled the system of air

[Pj10]

When I come of accelerator to slow down it goes of until I set of again

[paul.h]

To find out what is causing the engine management light to come on you really need to use a code reader since it could be anything. Without doing this you can only replace lots of parts in the hope of finding the right one before spending too much time and money.

[Pj10]

Hi pal thanks for your replies and all your help I have resolved the issue with the engine management light there was a short on the connector to the mad sensor when I moved it two wires with damaged sheath were touching so anyway moving on I now have no power to glow plugs when ignition is on position 1 or 2 but when I fire engine the glow plugs power up for 3 mins when first started in morning then once warm and van fires up they do not have power at all wich seems ok but still no light and no pre heat before engine is fired it has to start running before power gets to glow plugs very strange any ideas ???? Central locking has a mind of its own also

[paul.h]

It could be possible the outside temperature is not low enough now to need the glowplugs when starting, so the glowplug light will not come on. Did it come on during the winter ?

 

Good to see the engine light is sorted - that problem (MAF) may have been causing running problems.

[Pj10]

I have not had it long enough to say only got it last week problem was already there it would make sense if they did not power at all but the fact that they power after start up makes me think it's a fault with the central locking having a mind of its own I'm wondering if it could all be ecu related anyway the van starts with no issues and runs well so I will just have to live with the issue and hope it does not start struggling during the colder months if I can not get. To the bottom of it

[paul.h]

We have a diesel C5 and a C4. The glow plug light on these comes on only for a few seconds in winter, then as it gets warmer if you blink you can miss the light. Now it is not coming on so you may need to see what happens at the end of the year when it gets frosty again.

 

What is the problem with the central locking ?

[Pj10]

It locks all doors other than drivers door on its own short let after being unlocked then I have to lock it then unlock it again to get into the back of the van also sometimes it when i approach the van it will not unlock unless I press lock button first then hit unlock other times it just decides it will not respond atall

[paul.h]

I need to make this a bit clearer and hopefully there will be a few extra replies:

- your 2003 Berlingo van has front driver and passenger doors and doors at the back, all with remote locks but the driver's door lock does not work from the remote key fob.

- sometimes the remote key fob does not work at all.

- sometimes you need to press the remote fob lock button before the remote fob unlock button so it will unlock the doors.

- to unlock the back doors when the front ones are already unlocked, the remote fob has to be used to lock the doors first and then used to unlock the doors.

 

How are you unlocking the driver's door if the remote fob does not work on it ?

Does the driver's door lock work if the dash lock button is used (if there is one) ?

If you open the passenger door to get out of the van, does the back door still need to be locked and then unlocked with the remote fob ?

 

My initial thoughts are

- there may be a wiring fault to the driver's door lock or the lock itself may have seized - you could check the wiring between the door and door pillar in case any have broken.

- possibly the remote fob case is worn or damaged or dirty inside so that when you press the buttons on it the switches inside are not working.

- the remote fob battery may need replacing.

 

I think on Citroen cars the tailgate doors auto lock once the car is moving but then unlock when you stop and open the driver's door. If the driver's door lock is not working then maybe this stops the back doors unlocking.

 

On some cars the door unlocking can be set so that they do not all unlock together. Typically this would be to unlock only the driver's door on one press of the remote fob unlock button and then to need a second press of the button to unlock the others.

On our C4 this is set up through the radio MENU but a software update altered how the doors unlocked - when set to auto lock when driving, they used to all unlock when a front door was opened, but after the update the back and tailgate doors do not unlock at the same time and need the remote fob to unlock the doors. Also to lock the doors, they all have to be first unlocked on the remote fob if the back ones are still locked.

[Pj10]

All correct other than the drivers door does work it does lock and unlock with the remote but when the van is locking itself the drivers door is the only one that is not effected so if I leave my keys in van luckily the drivers door stays open I presume that is why I have to press lock first so that the drivers door locks along with the rest and then press open and they all open I also have side loading door the button on dash does not work at all totally non responsive

[paul.h]

'but when the van is locking itself'

 

I do not understand this, please explain how this happens. Only time on our cars when the car self locks without being driven, is if you unlock the doors with the remote fob but do not then open a door within 30 seconds, it will then lock itself again automatically.

[Pj10]

So for example like you say if I do not open any of the doors for 15 seconds it will lock itself maybe this is normal but then if I open any of the doors within that time it still tries to lock but as a door is open it unlock again instantly then a few seconds later it will do the same again so if I am getting tools out of the back I'm listening to the doors locking unlocking locking unlocking constantly until I shut the door that is open at witch point it locks instantly and stays locked except the drivers door then when I press the fob the drivers door also locks and I get the indicators lighting up to tell me alarm is on I presume the interior button does not work at all all fuses are ok this van was a bt van I'm starting to wonder if this is done intentionally by them the van automaticly locks the back is secure and even if someone breaks in to the cab they can not use the interior button to open rear doors and the steel bulk head makes it impossible to enter rear through the cab I supose its a good thing really I can never make the mistake of leaving my tools in a open van but it's annoying to be honest

[paul.h]

This does not seem at all normal, unless as you suggest it is something done by BT.

 

Possibly the central locking ecu is faulty or needs a reboot or maybe the remote key fob lock button is sticking down and constantly sending a lock signal - you could try unlocking and then taking the fob away from the van so it is out of range to test this. I would try disconnecting the van battery and then reconnecting since this may help and will not cost anything to try. Do not be too quick to do this since it could give problems - the following is copied from the C5 Technical section Common Problems pinned topic:

 

16. Odd electrical problems caused by wrong battery disconnection procedure.

If you need to disconnect the battery and not do a BSI reset procedure, I have found the following has not given me any problems on a 2004 and 2007 C5 and a 2003 C3:

- remove the ignition key from the car

- open the bonnet

- wait a few minutes for the BSI to shut down

- disconnect the battery negative terminal

 

When reconnecting

- ignition key out of the car

- reconnect the battery

- wait a few minutes

- insert the key in the ignition and wait a minute

- turn the key to the first position and wait a minute

- turn the key so the dash lights come on and wait a minute

- start the engine

- take the windows down and up to reset the anti pinch

- reset the clock (and radio on the C3).