Xsara Picasso Intermittent Starting Problem

[mullerunlimited]

Hi, I have just registered as a new member, so please forgive me if I am posting in the wrong area!

 

I have a 2004 Xsara Picasso 1.6 Desire (petrol) and recently have been experiencing intermittent starting problems. The symptoms are a flat battery, but I am pretty sure it's not the battery. There are no warning lights.

 

On a couple of occasions, when I have gone to start the car (usually on a Monday morning), the starter cranks very slowly and then not at all (as I said, symptoms of a flat battery). The trouble is, bump starting doesn't work either and, furthermore, weird electrical things happen at the same time: Wipers wipe once and stop in the upright position; headlights flash on; CD player plays and multi display defaults to date - all of this at the same time as the initial crank.

 

It then (after a few attempts at bump starting) starts. On one occasion, by bump starting (after which it ran very rough for a minute or two) and on another simply on the key turn. There doesn't appear to be any consistency in the patterns, but it is doing my head in.

 

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

PS I fairly recently replaced the COM2000 unit which, by all accounts was successful (this because my indicator was stopping halfway through turns and switching the headlights on instead!) and also via DiagBox I have activated the CD changer port of my head unit. Haven't fiddled with anything else... honest!!

[Johndouglas]

What voltage does the battery show first thing in the morning before starting? Also make sure battery terminals and earth straps are clean.

[mullerunlimited]

Hi John, I'll check the voltage tomorrow as well as the connections, but because it is so intermittent, I would have thought all of that is ok (surely it would happen more often if any of those were the cause??).

[paul.h]

It does sound like a flat battery. On our C5 if it is flat the starter will not turn or will barely turn, the headlights will flash and the front wipers will move a bit and the date/time will need to be reset. A flat battery would not give any warning lights, only giving the symptoms of not starting or the starter turning slower than normal. Once the engine has run the battery will be charged up a bit and then be ok for the day. Your rough running for a while may be due to a rich fuel mixture from trying to start the car.

 

If you find the battery voltage is ok (about 12.5 volts or a bit more before running the engine) and if the connections and wiring are ok then maybe the starter motor is faulty. Once the engine is running you should have about 14.4 volts at the battery if the charging system is good.

[mullerunlimited]

Many thanks Paul. That all makes sense. Will check "cold" voltage tomorrow morning (and alternator after starting). Cheers again. Mark

[mullerunlimited]

My multimeter is rubbish, so I can't actually tell the battery voltage accurately (in fact I don't know how to tell dc voltage!). There is however a massive drop on the meter when I turn the key. It's playing silly buggers again btw - not starting. I tried a BSI reset, but that hasn't worked. So I guess it must be the battery.

[paul.h]

When you turn the key and the starter turns there will be 1 or 2 volts drop as the power is sucked out of the battery, but it should jump back up once the key is turned back/the starter disengages.

 

How old is the existing battery ?

 

Without a meter your options are to charge up your battery (but a meter is really needed to check it), try jump starting the car from another or replacing the battery - provided you have not found any connection/wiring problems. Some car accessory shops will check your battery before selling you a new one. If it is not the battery though and it is the starter motor you will have wasted money.

 

A decent enough meter for house and car use does not cost much such as this one from Screwfix for £7.99  http://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-mas830b-digital-multimeter-600v/75337 and this one from Toolstation for £9.35 http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Electrical/d190/Electrical+Test+Equipment/sd3348/Digital+Multi+Meter/p11867  On this one for testing a car battery simply turn the dial to the 20 volt DC range and then touch the test leads on the battery terminals - red for positive and black for negative. On this one on the meter the red lead is connected to the VmA location and the black lead to the com location. Meters similar to this one are available at many different shops and some also have a thermocouple for measuring temperatures. Using a meter on the resistance setting is useful when checking for good connections/broken wiring/faulty fuses/cross connections.

[mullerunlimited]

Thanks Paul. Just bought a new battery. Only 60 quid, so it can't do any harm. Going to fit it after the rugby!

[paul.h]

Do not be too quick to disconnect the battery or you may get some odd electrical problems if the bsi is not given time to shutdown. The following is from the C3 Common Problems topic but since your battery is in the car, ignore the bonnet and leave the door open instead:

 

20. Odd electrical problems caused by wrong battery disconnection procedure.

If you need to disconnect the battery and not do a BSI reset procedure, I have found the following has not given me any problems on a 2004 and 2007 C5 and a 2003 C3:

- remove the ignition key from the car

- open the bonnet

- wait a few minutes for the BSI to shut down

- disconnect the battery negative terminal

 

When reconnecting

- ignition key out of the car

- reconnect the battery

- wait a few minutes

- insert the key in the ignition and wait a minute

- turn the key to the first position and wait a minute

- turn the key so the dash lights come on and wait a minute

- start the engine

- take the windows down and up to reset the anti pinch

- reset the clock (and radio on the C3).