Now My Turbo Has Blown...

[BigBruv]

One thing after another with this car.

 

I was out yesterday, had a complete loss of power and loads of smoke out the exhaust. The RAC man said what i thought, turbo gone pop. 

 

I just had a look ,removed the air hose from the bottom and it was full of oil,

 

I have been reading some posts on here about removing the turbo, It doesnt sound too bad but before i commit to doing this is there a step by step guide. i cant find a manual anywhere. 

 

unless anyone has a link that will work with bitcomet ..

 

Thanks for any help guys.

 

BB.

[paul.h]

I have put your car details from a previous topic as your signature since it helps to know this when trying to reply since not all cars are the same.

 

This is from the Citroen service box for the DW12TED4 engine (not bi turbo) which you can get on 3 dvds to put on your pc through ebay, but without the pictures since these do not copy:

 

1. Removing

Disconnect the battery.

Remove the shield under the engine .

Remove :

• The front RH driveshaft (see the relevant operation)
• The catalytic converter /particle emission filter assembly
• The turbocharger outlet supply duct (1)

 

Remove the turbocharger lower support ( 2).

Uncouple :

• The upstream exhaust gas temperature sensor
• The turbocharger lubrication supply pipe ( 3) (on cylinder block)
• The turbocharger lubrication return pipe (4)

 

Remove the turbocharger air supply duct fixing screw ( 5).

Move aside the turbocharger inlet air supply duct union ( 7).

Remove the turbocharger fixing nuts on the manifold flange ( 6).

 

Remove the turbocharger .

2. Refitting

ESSENTIAL : Check the absence of foreign bodies in the inlet circuit.

Tighten the studs on the manifold to 10 Nm.

ESSENTIAL : Systematically replace the nuts ( 6).

Refit :

• The turbocharger (8)
• The bolts (9) (if changing the turbocharger)
• The turbocharger lubrication piping seals

Tighten the turbocharger lubrication supply pipe union ( 3) on the cylinder block to 45 Nm.

Tighten (if changing the turbocharger) :

• The screws (9) at 12 Nm
• The lubrication supply pipe union on the turbocharger to 22 Nm

Fit the union ( 4).

Fit the turbocharger lower support ( 2).

Do up the screws by hand.

Tightening torques :

• Nuts ( 6) to 25 Nm
• The turbocharger lower support screw on the cylinder block to 25 Nm
• The lower support fixing on the turbocharger to 30 Nm

Replace the front right transmission (see the relevant operation).

Refit the catalytic converter and particle filter assembly.

Continue the fitting operations in the reverse order to removal.

[BigBruv]

Thanks Paul, This helps a lot. 

 

I just need to confirm on the removal of the drive shaft and im good.

When it comes out of the box am i going to loose gearbox oil like my old vectra when it is removed.

[paul.h]

This is what the service box gives for the drive shaft removal although off hand I do not know why it needs removing, possibly it gets in the way. Since there will not be an oil level plug, the gearbox has to be drained and then the correct amount put back in. You may not need to undo the driveshaft from the hub end, just pull it out of the gearbox whilst still fastened to the hub, but I have not done the job so do not know.

 

2. Removal

Place the vehicle on a 2 column lift.

Drain manual gearboxes only.

Remove the wheels.

 

 

Fit the tool [0606-AY / 6310-T]. - this is a tool bolted to the hub withthe wheel bolts to hold it so it does not turn whilst undoing the hub nut.

CAUTION : Never brake to loosen transmission nut because this is likely to shear the screws fastening the brake disc.

Take down :

• The R pin (1)
• The steel cage over the hub nut (2)
• The drive shaft nut
• The tool [0606-AY / 6310-T]

 

Unclip :

• The wheel sensor harness (at "b") ; Move aside the harness
• The brake wear warning lamp harness (at "a") ; Move aside the harness

Take down :

• The steering ball joint nut (4) (track rod end)
• The nuts (7) (holding the strut to the hub)
• The bolt (6) (holding the brake hose to the strut)

Move aside the brake hose (3).

Uncouple the steering ball joint .

Remove bolts (5) (holding the strut to the hub).

2.1. Right hand drive shaft

 

Loosen bolts (8) (holding the bearing thrust plate).

Tilt the bearing thrust plate (9).

2.2. Removal (continued)

Move the strut towards the outside.

Detach the drive shaft from the hub.

Remove the drive shaft.

3. Refitting

CAUTION : Observe the tightening torque values.

 

Tightening torques : .

CAUTION : Always fit new Nylstop nuts.

Check :

• The absence of play in the driveshaft joints
• The condition of the gaiters
• The condition of the bush bearing

Overhaul the driveshafts (if necessary).

 

 

Always replace the ring seals ; Using tools [0332-B] / [0317-U] / [0346-S] and [0332-A] / [0317-T] / [0346-R]. (drifts to help fitting the seals)

Apply grease to the space between the oil seal lips.

Grease the outer cage of the right-hand driveshaft bearing.

CAUTION : Take care not to damage the gearbox output shaft seal lips when replacing the drive shafts.

Reinstall the driveshaft.

3.1. Right hand drive shaft

Relocate : The bearing thrust plate (9).

Retighten screws (8).

3.2. Refitting (continued)

CAUTION : Always fit new Nylstop nuts.

Reposition : The suspension unit.

Fit :

• The screws (5)
• The nuts (7)

Couple up the steering ball-joint.

Put the brake hose (3) in place.

Fit :

• The bolt (6)
• The nut (4)
• The brake wear warning lamp harness (at "a")
• The wheel sensor harness (at "b")

Fit :

• The tool [0606-AY / 6310-T]
• The drive shaft nut
• The steel cage (2)
• The pin 1

Remove the tool [0606-AY / 6310-T].

Fit the wheels and Tighten the wheel bolts .

4. Refilling : Gearbox

The gearboxes are lubricated for life (Without routine inspection).

After the gearbox has been drained, it is filled by means of a breather.

Grades of oil used : TOTAL LUNARIA S, ELFRIMA, TEXACO CAPELLA, CASTROL ICEMATIC 299, SHELL CLAVUS OIL, MOBIL GARGOYLE ARCTIC 300 : ESSO 75W80 EZL 848 or TOTAL 75W80 H 6965.

Oil capacity of the ML6C gearbox : 2,6 litres.

Oil capacity of the BE4 gearbox : 1,9 litres.

Oil capacity of the ML5C gearbox : 2,1 litres.

N.B. : If topping up is required this is carried out by draining the gearbox and filling it with the correct quantity of oil for its capacity. 

 

 

Torque settings - front drive shaft bearing 20 Nm, hub nut 345 Nm, wheel bolts 100 Nm.

[BigBruv]

Thanks Paul. I'll have a look when I get back from work tomorrow. I will post up how I get on, or if I need any more pointers.

Thanks again.

 

P.S. I'm up to 124000 miles now.

Edited April 27, 2016 by BigBruv

[BigBruv]

Stuck her on stands, had a crawl. It doesn't look too bad, as long as all the bolts undo OK. Gave them all a soak in wd40 and I'll give it a go over the weekend.

[BigBruv]

OK not going too bad at the moment. As soon as I get the drive shaft out I should be good to go.

 

I noticed that when i removed the cat and dpf, there was a lot of oil going down the cat. I take it this is going to need a good clean or will it burn off ok.. 

 

Another thing while i remember, while i was under the car i noticed that one of the bolts for the engine mount was gone.

wasnt me.. ooops..

Edited April 29, 2016 by BigBruv

[paul.h]

Anything you use in the cat to clean it might kill the cat. When I had a turbo go on a petrol Saab, the garage that did the repairs insisted the cat was replaced with a new one as well as the lambda sensor, even though I wanted to leave the old ones and see if they recovered. However, for a diesel the exhaust emissions test at the MOT only look at soot so it may not matter but see if there are any other comments from other members.

[BigBruv]

OK.so far I have got no further.main hub nut will not move, even with a three foot extention bar and me bouncing on the end. So now I'm taking out the shaft hub disk and all. Got track rod end off and just released lower wish bone.should all come out in one. Great fun this is. Edited April 30, 2016 by BigBruv

[BigBruv]

OK got it out...

It would of been a lot easier if the hub nut undid. instead the whole lot had to come out, once the drive shaft was out the way it was simple..

 

There is one thing, Manual says to drain the gearbox before pulling a shaft. I couldnt find a square socket anywhere for the drain bolt, so i was just going to pull the shaft out and catch any oil and replace later. Pulled the shaft out and not one drop of oil left the gearbox. Now do i have a box that has a sealed unit or have i been doing 20,000 miles a year with no oil in my gearbox... Dunno.

 

Anyway this is what it looks like when you look at the blades, http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c378/BigBruv/DSC_0017.jpg

Edited April 30, 2016 by BigBruv

[paul.h]

Not removing the hub nut has at least saved you trying to find a torque wrench that does 345 Nm.

 

Sometimes a 3/8" socket drive can fit drain plugs. If you have not lost any oil and there are no signs of any previous leaks then it must be tempting to just put it back and not add any extra oil or maybe leave it until a later date.

 

Where there any signs of turbo bits in the oil that drained out from the air hose ?

[BigBruv]

I haven't noticed anything yet, I did wear a bit when I pulled the hose off. I still have it balanced and waiting for a clean so I will check then. Are you thinking about intercooler damage..

[BigBruv]

Sorry for double posts. Using my phone and it keeps lagging amd posts again if I touch anything.. I can't seem to be able to delete. Down to you moderator or admin

[coastline taxis]

You can buy the sump plug keys cheap enough. then drain and refill the box via the reversing light switch.  Dont take any chances as changing a box is quite a epic job on a c8

[paul.h]

Rather than inter cooler damage, I was thinking about bits getting into the engine and damaging that.

[BigBruv]

New turbo on way. Delivery for Friday, picked up a recon one for £220 with 12 months warranty. Not too bad considering everyone has been saying I would be lucky to get one for under 500.

[BigBruv]

Turbo delivered on Friday. WRONG ONE. Due to a mix up I was sent a turbo for a BMW. Now have to wait till Tuesday, but as the wife will be out I don't know when I can get my hands on it. Hopefully they will leave it with a neighbour.

[BigBruv]

Hopefully last post on this thread.

 

New turbo all good and plugged in.

 

A MUST FOR ANYONE DOING THIS, MAKE SURE YOU CHANGE THE COPPER WASHERS FOR THE OIL FEED. BOTH ENDS.

 

Its a lot of work if you skip this and try and get away with it like i tried. You will loose, oil and a lot of it.

 

Anyone need help with changing a turbo i am now the expert...

 

Paul H thank you for your help on this was much needed and most helpful..

 

speak soon all..

 

BB.

[BigBruv]

Too good to be true.

Before putting the wheels back on I had her running, got her up to temperature, checked for leaks, all good. Let everything cool, checked again, all good. Put the wheels on and went for a run around the block. Took it slow,there was a lot of smoke but I was expecting some for while as the old stuff burned away. I took her out again a little while ago, there is no power at all. It's like driving in limp mode but worse. Every now and then it picks up but in 3rd or 4th it lags down and smokes like a bugger. If I stop I can rev up to 3k or more with no smoke. As soon as I pull away it doesn't want to go and struggles to go past 2k and smokes again.

I can hear the turbo spooling nicely, any chance it could be the old butterfly valves In the hose before the inlet manifold. Everything was caked in oil and crap, I cleaned everything best I could before refitting. Any way of testing the valves.

[Simple]

If you have a Lexia device try to perform Particulate Filter Regeneration, it may be blocked due to the previous fault. Also, ensue all the vacuum pipes are intact and connected, I had a similar problem due to inlet manifold valve leakage (the valve body had a tiny hole due to a pipe rubbing against it)..

[paul.h]

May be you have not connected everything back such as an electrical connector or a pipe.

[BigBruv]

I'm pretty sure it's not the dpf, I've already had that fault, new dpf and new pressure sensor. With the modified mounting bracket that citroen insisted I had to get. Also replaced additive tank as I was getting additive pump fault code. I really don't want to do a forced regeneration again, last time it nearly melted the engine and would not stop, it froze so had to unplug it and swith off engine. I'm pretty sure I connected everything back the way it came off. I will check again when I get back from work. Is there any way to check the butterfly valves In the inlet hose, just for my piece of mind. Or I read somewhere else that the egr could need a clean, or are they the same thing??

[BigBruv]

What I'm going to do in a bit. After game of thrones, I will start a new thread and stick some pictures of the 2.2 HDI engine up, I will circle parts and I would like everyone to name the parts. Hopefully we can make this sticky to help others to know where parts are and what they are.

[paul.h]

This is the egr valve http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EGR-Valve-1628XP-Peugeot-Citroen-807-C8-7-28069-04-0-/111054874179

and this is the doser valve http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Intercoolers-Hose-Citroen-C5-Peugeot-607-2-2HDI-0345-A8-0345A8-Original-/131557375281

[BigBruv]

Still no joy with this, its really lacking on power, just got no go. I have been over everything many times. All vac tubes fitted. 

 

One thing i have noticed is that the intake butterfly swirl valve on the side of the block doesnt seem to move. reading up on another thread, its supposed to move when the engine is revved, when the engine is ticking over im guessing that it should be in the up position judging by the amount of suck the vac tube has when i put my finger on it. if i push the rod with the cup on it all the way up and hold it for a second it will stay there until i rev the engine and it will release, but stays down and wont move again.

 

Does this mean the diaphram is split, just to be sure i have ordered a new one from citroen plus the intercooler hose with the vac valves on, citroen call it throttle body.