Citroen Xsara Picasso 2006 1.6 Hdi - Power Steering Issue

[Eiteews]

Sorry this is long (and Xsara Picasso related rather than pure Xsara) but I want to include as much information as possible - looking for some advice/recommendations for where to go with our Picasso which is having problems with the power steering (seems to be a common thing reading up).

Wednesday 20th April
10 year service - New Timing Belt, Antifreeze, Oil Change and MOT. Not sure it's relevant but for completeness.

Thursday 28th April
Steering suddenly goes exceptionally heavy when turning, improvement is seen at high revs but parking is a total nightmare - even half a turn on the steering wheel is difficult but feels looser once you get past that point. Father in law says the car is making a strange high pitched noise on reversing at full lock (not heard this directly).

Friday 29th April
Garage flush power steering system which shows an improvement. They recommend replacement of steering pump saying it seems to have gone weak, can't get the part till the following week. Unsure how long the system will remain improved but we were away the following week plus it was bank holiday weekend so had little choice but to crack on with the car as it was - garage assure us driving it if it recurs isn't going to damage the system further.

Friday 6th May
Drove 80 miles on our trip and around and about for 4 days - it was slightly heavier than previously but no major issues. On the way home it starts to act up again. Following day steering is really heavy again so we book in for the pump to be replaced the following week.

Tuesday 10th May
Steering pump is replaced and seems fine on testing. Collect car following morning and seems lighter than ever - can turn the wheel with one finger and it feels feather light. Delighted that it's resolved and carry on using car as normal (very light use).

Friday 13th May
Take car on a 30 mile round trip. On the way the steering starts to feel heavy again and by the time we arrive it's back as bad as it was on the first day the issue started. Car is only possible to park by wrestling the steering wheel around. Let the garage know the problem is still ongoing and arrange to take it in on Monday. Parked it for the weekend for fear of damaging anything further.

Monday 16th May
Garage collect car, test 3 times - can't replicate issue. Suggest it might be because it's a warm day but also say it was fine from driving off, ask to keep car for another day to see if they can replicate it in the morning.

Tuesday 17th May
Garage managed to replicate issue. Remove and refit, still happening. Replace old pump, still happening. Conclusion - likely to be the rack rather than the pump causing an issue. Order in a new rack to fit the following day.

Wednesday 18th April - Thursday 19th April
Garage fit rack with old pump, still having intermittent issues. Refit new pump - still happening. End up stripping everything back and starting again. Say that the pump replacement now seems to have resolved the issue but leave both new parts in the car - they can't return the rack and figure we may as well have them both regardless (no charge for the rack or many hours of additional labour - very thankful for that!).

Friday 20th April - Current
Car is returned, short test drives over the weekend indicate behaviour is different, improved but still not right. Steering is still going intermittently heavy on corners and weighting is fluctuating seemingly randomly. Revving engine no longer frees up the steering (which it did before the pump was replaced). Reverse seems to make it lighter.

So now we're not sure where to go with it. Some research indicates that the pressure switch, UJ or steering knuckle might be the next port of call? Neither of these things mean much to me if I'm honest - I'm a technical person but not great with cars. I guess I need to check what the garage have tried exactly come Monday but in the meantime I'm trying to increase my knowledge so I can have a more useful conversation on the day.

Again - apologies for the length of my post. Any ideas or suggestions very gratefully received. Thanks in advance.

[paul.h]

Welcome to the forum.

 

Maybe the belt driving the pump is not tight enough and is slipping so it could be a problem with the belt tensioner. The belt would have been removed when the timing belt was done, did the problems all start after this ?

[Eiteews]

Thanks Paul. Yes the problem started a week after the timing belt was changed. Is this something that could be adjusted or would it need replacing?

[paul.h]

If it is the belt and tensioner then I would replace them. If still the original ones and 10 years old then they are due for replacing anyway. It could also mean the pump and rack did not need replacing. I hope the garage that replaced the timing belt also replaced the timing belt tensioner, pulleys and water pump since it is normal to do this since they also wear out.

 

Is it a Citroen dealer you are using for your repairs/servicing ?

[Eiteews]

No just our local garage - no specialisms. We did pay for a full cambelt kit including water pump so yes it seems so... Just done a search for the part code on the invoice and it's this Gates kit listed.

 

We don't have a Citroen dealer local to us (or the money for their prices tbh) - there is one that lists itself as a specialist who I've asked to call me back to discuss looking at it for us.

[coastline taxis]

Does the steering centralise itself after being turned or do you have to turn it back

[Eiteews]

Since the pump and rack were replaced it centralises when it feels light, it didn't do that before as far as we remember because we were surprised when we picked it up. I'm guessing this means the pump may have genuinely been on it's way out. Though it's the unpredictability which is more the problem - suspect that side hasn't been helped by the replacement.

 

When it's gone heavy it doesn't centralise as far as I recall but would need to double check to be sure. We've only taken it a few miles since getting it back.

[Eiteews]

It does still centralise when heavy. Seems to go noticeably heavier in 3rd gear while driving along but also still goes intermittently in all gears.

 

It is definitely better than before the pump was replaced but still not right at all - totally schizophrenic. Not talked to the garage yet because we wanted to drive it more first and get more information to work with.

[Johndouglas]

Did they fit a new auxiliary belt at the same time as doing the cambelt?

[Eiteews]

Not as far as I'm aware but will check tomorrow. Looked at the belt this afternoon and it looks in really good condition. It's a Gates Horizon Micro V one? I can't find any record in all the receipts for the car of it being replaced so not sure when it's from!

[Eiteews]

Spoke with the (poor long suffering) mechanic today. They did fit a new Aux belt because the old one was squeaking after the pump change so they figured they'd just crack on with it and eliminate another potential cause. It's got an automatic tensioner so not likely to be that either. Said unlikely to be the steering knuckle because the problem is inconsistent with that, also said universal joint looked fine when they checked.

 

So we have - new pump, new rack, new ps fluid (and no leaks), new timing belt (plus water pump etc), new drive belt, checked UJ and steering knuckle.

 

Only things left of those people have mentioned to me are the pressure switch, damaged crankshaft pulley/damper and deformed pipes/hoses as far as I remember. Our mechanic has said he has a buddy at the Citroen garage and he'll give him a call to pick his brain because he owes him a favour anyway.

 

To be continued.... Any ideas still gratefully received.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Eiteews

[paul.h]

The auxiliary belt automatic tensioner could be the problem if it is faulty. Or maybe the new belt is a bit longer than the old one although I would expect the correct one would have been put on.

 

If the crankshaft pulley is one with a rubber insert (damper) these can perish and need replacing so it is a possibility.

[Eiteews]

Just keeping this up to date (I know how annoying unresolved threads are) - car is in again at the moment and spoke with the mechanic today. We apparently have a model without a pressure switch and no damper in the crankshaft pulley so that's another two items off the list. I also found out that they'd used new hoses too last time it was in.

 

The supplier for the pump advised them that the steps they've taken so far are appropriate, that the pump is unlikely to have failed again so quickly so a likely cause could be a foreign object in the system which is occasionally sticking in the pump and causing an issue. With this in mind they're being sent a new pump tomorrow and flushing the system several times before refitting the pump then new pump to see if that does the trick.

 

My local self titled Citroen specialist garage want to charge me £72 (+ VAT) just for a diagnostic with no appointments available for 10 days and no guarantee of finding fault. Figured with that in mind I'd give the current garage one last try and then regroup. Just want this all to be sorted now.

[coastline taxis]

Ask them to put the car on stand and start checking from the wheels backover.  Turning the road wheels by hand and in particular the strut top bearings as a collapsed bearing will cause the steering to stick and go stiff whenever it feels like it

[Eiteews]

They said that whenever it was up on the stand it was totally smooth throughout and didn't stick at all. Very frustrating because it meant getting it down and driving it to test it.

 

We have the car back, flushed system and new pump fitted - only driven it a mile down the road so far so jury's out but no issues thus far.

 

To be continued.

[coastline taxis]

Please keep us informed

[Eiteews]

Okay so we've taken it out a few times over the weekend. The steering is now consistent in that it doesn't have the crazy fluctuations while doing a journey - this is a major relief because that was the scariest bit. However, it does still seem to vary journey by journey - initial feeling is that it's temperature sensitive but not enough data to work with to be honest.

 

It was stiffer when cooler the day before yesterday, lighter again most of yesterday and much stiffer again today in the rain. Doesn't feel like there should be that much variation on a day to day basis. Particularly given we now have a new pump, new rack, new pipes, flushed system and a new aux belt. Probably some other stuff that I've forgotten too! We don't have rubber dampers and we don't have a pressure switch on our model.

 

One side of me just wants to say we'll live with it and it'll do but the other is saying it should be more reliable by this point and if it's that variable in a few degrees of temperature difference in the summer what might it be like in the proper cold of the winter. What would you guys do? :)

[Johndouglas]

Have you checked the strut bearings that Steve mentioned last week?

[paul.h]

I had a failed strut top bearing on a C3 and that knocked when going over bumps at slow speed, are there any noises from your car ?