Sudden Misfire 2.0Hdi - Fuel Filter

[tezp2010]

Hi all I have a 2001 synergie hdi, the other week out of the blue ir suddenly started to run on what I would describe as 3 cylinders after start up for a few mins then cleared, no other problems, problem cleared itself. Now tonight whilst driving home it's suddenly done the same thing, no problem with eml coming on just running rough, very flat and lumpy? Switched it off and back on a few times no change, still no eml, gonna book it up to code reader later and see if anything comes up, but any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks

[coastline taxis]

use live data on the diagnostic to see whats hapening. check diesel/air filter and all connections

[paul.h]

Amongst the checks look at the engine coolant and air inlet temperatures, since these will set the fuel/air mixture.

[tezp2010]

Hi guys thanks for the replies, as it stands the situation has developed slightly, today I decided to try the car and it seemed ok to start for a mile or so picked up lovely drove well then, back to square one again, missing on idle, very lumpy as if only running on 3 cylinders, called aa out to it, but not very helpful to be honest, spent about 5 minutes if that with the car, checked that the injectors were plugged in and said he suspected it was an injector fault and that even running a live data check on it wouldn't be worth while as I have no eml on, so would most likely not show anything up, spoke to my local garage who do my mot's and they agree that its most likely an injector from the symptoms, recommend having it looked at by the local diesel expert who deals with injectors and such like, they do have a good reputation in fairness, and after speaking to them this afternoon he also suspects that there is an injector down,

are these injectors removable with the engine in the car? because he says that the chances are the engine will need to be removed to remove the injectors due to the lack of space in the engine bay? also if it comes to the crunch that its cheaper to fit a 2nd hand engine, as a mate does the bigger stuff that I don't deal with, is it a straight swap? or have I gotta mess around reprograming the ecu?

thanks for your help so far I will keep you posted as to my progress,

regards

 

tez

[paul.h]

It may or may not be an injector but why go for the expensive thing first when no body has done any live data checks - you would kick yourself if you spent hundreds of pounds and then found out it was something like a £20 temperature sensor. When was the fuel filter last changed or at least drained to remove any water ?

[tezp2010]

Thanks for your reply, the fuel filter was changed in October this year, along with the air and oil filters. I did try a basic code reader on it, but no fault codes stored unfortunately, also the coolant temp sensor was chsbfed when I bought the car, due to problebs with radiator fan. I will talk to the local garage again later and what they say regarding a live scan. Thanks again

[paul.h]

Being a 2001 diesel you may find many code readers will not communicate with the car since OEBD was not required until 2004. Ideally the Citroen Lexia should be used for a diagnostic check which may need a visit to a Citroen dealer or Citroen specialist.

[tezp2010]

Hi just a quick update on the misfire situation, I today decided it would be worth while checking and replacing the fuel filter, I opened the fuel filter housing and removed the filter, to find that for starters the rubber seal? that is on the bottom of the filter had come off, so I recovered this and emptied the fuel that was in the housing, to find there were some sludgie deposits at the bottom, I assume they have come from the tank at some point recently due to being run low as I cant think of any other way they could have got there it was like a grease, and some bits in it too, cleaned all the housing out, re-fitted filter and primed system a couple of times on the low pressure pump, car started easier than it has been starting and seemed a lot better, took it for a drive and have done approximately 45 miles at various point and roads tonight and so far so good, probably be too soon to say its a complete success but its a much better picture than I was facing,

I will put some injector cleaner in tomorrow, and hope that the situation continues to improve,

 

I will update again in a few days when ive had chance to test it further.

 

thanks for all your help. very much appreciated.

 

ps I have recently had to replace the alternator on both this 2.0hdi and the older 1.9td version if anyone needs any advice or support with the process as its certainly a challenge but do able.

 

regard

 

tez

[paul.h]

I have read that you can get jelly in the fuel formed if there is water contamination and some biological action can occur. Maybe you could try a different petrol station.

[tezp2010]

Hi guys just a quick update, hopefully problem sorted (fingers crossed ) 600 miles nearly since cleaning out fuel filter and housing. Problem seems to have gone now, still can be a little problematic to start from cold when temperatures are below freezing out but always starts in the end, usually runs on 3 cylinders for a few seconds or untill the accelerator is used for a few seconds but that's another problem, i was hoping it might be glow plugs but I'm told these engines don't use them. So we will see how things go.thanks for all the advice

[coastline taxis]

Well done to you for sorting it and a big thank you for letting us know.  many thanks and yes they have heater plugs but they dont operate till a least  minus 5

[paul.h]

Maybe there is a low compression on one of the cylinders or the starter is not turning over quickly (you could check the battery voltage, should be about 12.5 to 12.7 volts before running the engine). However, I suspect you will be happy to live with the problem for now and not throw any money at it - good job you did not arrange for the engine replacing. If there is dirt in the fuel tank you may want to have another go cleaning the fuel filter in the future.

[tezp2010]

just a further update I will check the housing again this week and see if there is anymore in there, car seems to be pretty good, I have however had another thought which is, I changed the fuel filter at the beginning of October its only been since that was changed that the car has started playing up with starting, but if I recall correctly I did have a problem with the lid of the housing not going back on the base correctly and allowing when I tried to start the car fuel to seep out between the join, when the ignition was turned on so the low pressure pump was obviously forcing fuel out of the housing at this time, I obviously tried to start the car a few times prior to realising that this was happening, I then took the lid off again and refitted the filter and lid and car started but not straight away took a bit of starting, since then its obviously been a bit of a pain on starting, sometimes it does it sometimes it doesn't you cant make a diary out of it so to speak as its never g;teed to happen, but whether or not it should the glow plug light comes on for about 3 seconds most first time starts be it below freezing or above, its done this for a while so I just assume it should do so. is there a chance that there still could be air in the fuel system and if so anyway to bleed it out on these as obviously on the older 1.9td you used to just slacken off the injector pipes until fuel started coming out and tighten them back up,

thanks again.

again feel free if anyone does have any questions on either the HDI or 1.9td I don't mind trying to help others as I do a lot of repairs myself and have had to get out of a few sticky situations myself.

[tezp2010]

Evening all, problems have started again this morning, once car is started its fine, but the problems with starting this morning were silly, it just cranked over and over, kept seeming like it was trying to fire but not start, there is plenty of life in the battery I even hooked up a spare battery to make sure just to give it a boost, the car turns over really well even when cold, I have checked the fuel filter again this morning, and its clean there is no signs of any sediment or other dirt in the housing, just clean diesel, I've drained and refilled the fuel filter, and left for a few hours and the car refused to start again, same as this morning kept seeming like it was trying but not going to start, I'm guessing it stands to reason that there is an injector leaking back? I have searched the fuel lines to the best I can and cant see any splits or loose connections, once running the car runs fine and is smooth, I've never seen a compression test done on a diesel before so, is it done via the glow plug ports? or another way, any advice now would be appreciated, don't mind paying for the injectors to be reconditioned providing they can be got out with out too much trouble, and as long as I am not going to be taken for a mug like some people get done,

thanks again

[coastline taxis]

if there the bosch type  ive got about 20 of them sitting in the garage and can eisily send u a set for the cost of postage.  im assuming its a 8 valve

[tezp2010]

Thanks I appreciate the gesture, and may very well take you up on it in the new year, it is the Bosch fuel system, and the 8 valve, don't they need re-coding to the car though, i was told they do, do they come out easily? Got a mate that does major stuff that I can't do and seemed to think that he could get them out without removing the engine?

[coastline taxis]

They dont need recocing if you give me the last 4 numers on the injector il match a set up for you. They come out very easy and arnt prone to sticking in. All you will need to buy is 4 sealing rings there about a £1 each

[tezp2010]

Hi everyone, apologies for the delay in getting back to you again, but so far so good regarding this issue, I had resigned myself to the fact that I was going to end up paying to get the injectors replaced, but annoyed that it was such a silly fault, never had any more misfire issues after clearing out the fuel filter, but after checking a couple of times I did notice that the filter was showing signs of damage I assume anyway given that some of fins on it sorry not sure what else to call them) had opened up bigger than the other gaps, so since it only started after changing the fuel filter I decided to change it again, thought the problem was still going to stay around after replacing the filter as it still struggled to start the same day after leaving it for about an hour or so, next day thought stuff it I would fill the tank up since I needed to try and make the most of a bad situation and low and behold since that day 3-4000 miles later its starting first turn of the key, hot or cold, even in minus 5 over xmas, I suppose I have to face reality that the problem could still come back to bite me in the rear but hoping its cleared for the foreseeable future at least, (touch wood)

can I just say a huge thank you to "coastline taxis" for his kind offer of matching up some injectors for me, that was really appreciated and at the same time to all other members that have offered advice on the problem,

 

I generally hope that the problem has gone, but we shall see, many thanks again to the members of this site for there help, hope that I can return the advice one day,

 

kind regards

 

 

Terry

[paul.h]

Nice to know it was just  a low cost fuel filter to sort it out and a bit of cleaning out of the filter bowl  - was the first filter from a Citroen dealer ? If you get time it would be nice to tell the diesel expert it was a filter and not a replacement engine needed. I wonder how many engines he swaps and then finds the problem is still there since the old filter was put back.

[tezp2010]

Hi, i normally use an online car spares for bits unless occasionally local branches are cheaper, so it wasn't a citroen dealer filter, plus our local citroen dealer are a bit hit and miss, it kinda depends on whether it suits them or who is on as to what price you get ir if they can get it stock the parts you want, as for the diesel specialist I was never entirely convinced that it was injectors to be honest, i understand how they get recommended for diesel work but my father almost had a nasty experience with them when his 06 plate Xtype diesel stopped running, they confirmed it was injector related which was correct to some degree but they wanted to replace all fuel pipes, the tank cleaned and possibly fuel pump too, turned out cleaned the tank and replaced injectors and it started and ran. Just needed injectors coding. At the end of the day it's all down to trust with any garage really. And I've seen and heard some horror stories from a few local garages the kind that should be on garages from hell. But thanks again for all your help