Fault Code P0113 And 0104

[arak81]

Hi,I have just changed my air filter and cabin filter and now getting above folt codes..

[paul.h]

P0104 Mass or Volume Air Flow Circuit Intermittent

P0113 Intake Air Temperature Circuit High Input

 

You should check if the air mass flow meter is plugged back in.

[arak81]

its plugged in...I even plugged out and plugged in several times to see if loose connection causing it..but fault codes keep coming back...can it be mass flow meter faulty? I took the whole box out and also brushed clean the meter and everywhere.

[coastline taxis]

youve probally wrecked the air mass and the air temperature which shares the airmass by brushing them/ always use a spray cleaner and never ever touch the probes.

[arak81]

I couldn't see any sensor inside the air MAF meter. i thought it would be a good idea to brush out dusts from those net inside the MAF meter. are those not just nets(filter) or they are sensors? if they are sensors then i might have damaged them.

[arak81]

I have changed the MAF Meter and it gives me a new fault code p0401 along with other two.

[paul.h]

P0401 Exhaust Gas Recirculation Flow Insufficient Detected

 

I do not know what this means. Did you delete the other fault codes when you fit the new MAF meter ?

[arak81]

yes...I did..but fault codes just keep comong back instantly...so i returned the MAF Meter..it must be something else..I can not think of anything...yesterday I took the air box out and put the filter otherway round,deleted the fault codes and drove around hour and half until engine light comes on..

[arak81]

Just to update the post...I bought another MAF Sensor (this time from eurocarparts costed me £72 after 32% discount) this evening  and so far i didn't get engine light on. I was keep diagnosing, no engine fault code except the older one which i had previously related with glow plugs. (finger crossed)

 

But other weird thing is car doesn't drive as smooth as before. i feel like it vibrates too much and occasional jumps (misfire could it be!).  any idea why its happening..or its just normal behaviour with the new MAF Sensor for the car to get use to it. 

[paul.h]

It could be the first MAF you tried was not an original equipment one or it was damaged before you tried it - I have read that copy ones do not always work that well.

[arak81]

Definitely you were right. This MAF Sensor is not giving me fault code but its giving me rough drive and whole lot of black smoke. my back tail has become black now. tomorrow first thing i will do is take it out and return and meantime i will use my original one. I have already ordered one from ebay which is as same as mine and was taken out from same car as mine. hope that will sort the problem out.

[arak81]

Does anyone know whether i have to reset ECU after changing the  MAF sensor. otherwise why my new MAF sensor will give me smoke and rough drive, but no fault code though.  And how to reset ECU?

[paul.h]

Where I have read that copy MAFs do not work that well I think it was the temperature sensor bit and this would not necessarily give a fault code but would need to be checked using live data. I would suspect that having the wrong temperature may lead to the wrong fuel/air mixture so poor running. It might just be the new one is poor quality, despite the cost.

 

The Haynes manual does not mention needing to reset the ecu if the MAF is changed.

 

This is from the following site http://pmmonline.co.uk/technical/maf-sensors-troubleshooting-and-fault-diagnosis-advice/

 

What to remember during MAF sensor replacement

It’s important to remember when selecting a MAF sensor for replacement that quality is critical. Using products of lower quality can: potentially reduce the life of and/or damage the catalytic converter; increase fuel consumption; experience poor response from the vehicle, causing drivability issues (lack of power); and breach regulating emission standards due to excessive smoking and increased particulate emissions.

[arak81]

Thanks for the valueable info. the second hand one (took out frm same car same year,bought from ebay) didn't work at all. I found exactly same one which is Pierburg on eurocarparts costing £152.99 but am scared if it gives me black smoke and vibration like the other one I bought from them price was £105.99.

 

I mean what is the proper way of doing it? will disconnection of battery be any good before changing the MAF replacement?

[paul.h]

I would not bother disconnecting the battery, just make sure the bsi has shut down by opening the bonnet, removing the ignition key from the car, closing any car doors and then waiting a few minutes before changing the maf.

 

How much is a maf from a Citroen dealer, at least if it costs similar to eurocarparts you will know it is the right part. How does the car run now with your original maf put back in, has the black smoke stopped ?

[arak81]

Original part in Citroen Romford,London is £160.66 which is little bit higher than what i found in eurocarparts and i can get 32% discount from eurocarparts from online purchase. I don't know what make citroen does stock in their shop but in eurocarparts they have exactly same one (Pierburg) as i have now.

I haven't had black smoke at all with original one..only fault code P0113 and engine light on. 

when I tried with other one which was HAAS (bought from eurocarparts original price £104.99), it gave me black smoke and shaking but no fault code . I had to struggle a lot to return it for the refund. so if i wanna buy Pierburg one and it gives me black smoke and shaking then I am risking £103. I don't think eurocarparts will take it back as they will be saying it was electric part. 

 

So recap is

1. Bought one from ebay-  (Collected) price was £47.90 = it gave me 3 fault codes straightway and engine light on (code deleted, but they don't go away)

2. Bought one from Eurocarparts brand HAAS original Price £104.99 = Gave black smoke and shaking when driving, no fault code or engine light though

3. Bought one from ebay 2nd hand taken out from same car according to seller description = Gave me 2 fault codes straightway  (code deleted, but they don't go away)

4. Now using original one = engine light on along with fault code p0113

Edited December 18, 2016 by arak81

[paul.h]

If you now only have P0113 then maybe you could try a spray clean with carburettor cleaner in case you brushed some dirt on to the sensor. Have a look at this http://c4owners.org/plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?176740

[arak81]

i wish if it was that easy in my case. I took that out night before last night and used electric connector to carefully clean it, left it overnight to dry it and inserted in the morning to see if it  solves the problem. but no luck at all. as soon as you connect it and run OBD scan tool the code P0113 is there..engine light will not come unless you drive it two or three times. 

 

I think i broke something of the sensor and that's why when it is connected, computer recognise that something is missing from the sensor. I looked inside carefully, couldn't see any damage even sensor is right there as it should be. WHAT THE HELL DID I DO! 

[arak81]

Hi Paul.h,

 

I think I am in serious trouble. I have just cleaned off the 2nd hand one (Which sold as original part for my car from ebay) with electric connector cleaner and compare mine and this one side by side to see what damaged did i do..and i believe i have broken a very thin wire inside the black part of the sensor section. if you see the pictures you will understand what I mean.

 

Anyway, that's not the problem. i can buy another one and fix it..but the problem is my car seems not recognising any other MAF. hence producing lots of black smoke with strong oil burning smell.

 

As you know that at first 2nd hand one produced the fault codes and throwing engine light on, but after cleaning, it seems its not producing fault code anymore other than hell lots of black smoke..So i am thinking if i even buy another expensive one car will produce smoke unless i can sort out what causing the engine to produce black smoke. ...do you have any idea what else i can do?

[arak81]

 

what is temperature sensor you are referring to? is it Intake air temperature sensor? where is it located in my car? in citroen service diagram it was showing somewhere near the left side of the engine by one of the two big hoshes. part number 1920 pj. is that the one you talking about?  or just a temperature sensor? please give me any link of the picture. thank you.

Edited December 19, 2016 by arak81

[arak81]

The black smoke is not coming constantly now. only first few minutes of starting and when the car is in idle position. its not even too much. when I took the car to the garage the man even couldn't see any black smoke coming. he revved it but no black smoke whatsoever.   Car drives very good, even better than before. no vibration, no shaking or jumping. is there any product that I can use to clean the exhaust through the air intake. I need to mention here that few days ago I used WYNN'S DIESEL EGR3 AIRINTAKE CLEANER. Oh God,  is it because of this I am having black smoke and it will be gone in time? any idea?

[paul.h]

The black smoke might be due to the egr valve, if faulty these are known to give black smoke. I think they do not start to open until the engine has warmed up so excess smoking until warm might be a sign of an egr valve problem. Since you have used the cleaner I would be tempted to leave this for a bit to see if it settles down.

 

I think the maf has a built in inlet air temperature sensor so is part of the maf. If you have access to a code reader that gives live data it will show you what the sensor thinks the temperature is, then you can decide if it is wrong. Before starting the engine it should be the outside temperature of around 10°C but as the engine warms it may go up a bit to possibly 30°C.

 

It is a shame that you are doing your best to maintain the car by replacing filters, cleaning the bits that get fouled with oil/carbon and as a result problems are happening.

 

When coastline taxis is back on the forum it will be good to see what he thinks, I am sure he will have come across these problems before.

[arak81]

Thanks for your compassion Paul.h. My EGR is clean. you remember the fault code p0238 I had. my EGR removed and checked as part of that fault code 5/6 months ago..that time we saw that it was as clean as new. I have sprayed EGR3 because of the recent fault codes of MAF Sensor meter..garage guy said I might have some oil in exhaust. once they are burnt out, there will be no more smoke. But how come there will be oil in there! when I take air intake pipe out to access MAF Sensor I can see some oil in the pipe which is connected with the turbo. I think this is normal, isn't it?

[paul.h]

A bit of oil from the turbo is normal but if it is excessive it can be a sign of turbo bearing wear. I had a petrol Saab 9-5 that had a turbo failure but for months before there was a blue cloud of smoke on starting for a few seconds as the oil burnt.

[arak81]

I took the car to the garage this morning to run diagnostic with Laxia to check what's going on. the expert said everything was all right. Air intake temperature is good. Only problem he noticed was the connector and he fixed it. Still it was slowly emitting black smoke but very less if you leave it running for some times. He recommended me to use some injector cleaner fuel additive which I did...hopefully everything is sorted now...and i learnt my lesson not to brush cleaning the dust from MAF Sensor.