Diesel By Numbers

[seefive]

Hi

 

For anyone considering a C5 diesel because they are more economical than petrol models, consider a few facts and figures before committing.

 

Citroen dealers will always push diesels hard, saying they do "30% more MPG than petrol". This plants the idea in your head that you will save 30% off your petrol fuel bill. Wrong. You will actually save 30/130 - 23% of fuel volume. Factor in the 5% price premium and your cost saving is 19%.

 

So if you are doing 12,000 miles pa on petrol at 32mpg it will be costing you

(12,000/32 x 4.70) = £1,762

 

19% saving is £338. Add your road tax saving and you are £400 in pocket. All good so far.

 

Now comes the bad news.

 

A browse through this site reveals numerous expensive problems associated with the particle filter, fitted only to diesels. This is such an expensive item, Ebay publish a warning which pops up when you search for an HDI car.They have obviously had to mediate in some nasty disputes after these cars have changed hands! Cost estmates vary, but it appears £1,000 is about the cost of filter replacement. On post -2005 cars this is a service requirement at 50,000 miles. Citroen keep very quiet about this.

 

Whatcar.co.uk warn of diesel C5's frequently burning out clutches at 50,000 miles or so, with replacements "stretching into 4 figures". This is a result of the higher torque of the diesel engine. And there's worse...

 

There are an alarming number of posts on this site about 2.2hdi's prematurely snapping cam belts, no doubt due again to the aggresive power delivery of the diesel. The cost of engine rebuild is frequently prohibitive.

 

Added to this, there is more frequent routine maintenance required, all of which makes the £400 fuel and tax saving look like a poor reason to choose diesel. And to cap it all the smell of diesel makes me feel sick!!

 

Guess what - I run a reliable petrol C5 and refuse to be drawn into this misery. Think very carefully before your next purchase. Citroen ( and other car makers) love diesels because that's where the big maintenance profits are - they make very little on the car itself.

 

I know all you diesel devotees will want to douse me in petrol and burn me at the stake for this, but the more miserable/desperate posts I read , the more I am convinced that c5 diesels are trouble - "nothing but trouble" to quote the RAC in a recent post...

[Johndouglas]

Well you obviously don't like diesels. Look at my signature - we have four of them and none of the last three have been near a garage for years - except for MOT test. I can't help but contrast your post with another one today where a guy runs three C5's and he's very happy with them. Each to his own.

[coastline taxis]

Hi

 

For anyone considering a C5 diesel because they are more economical than petrol models, consider a few facts and figures before committing.

 

Citroen dealers will always push diesels hard, saying they do "30% more MPG than petrol". This plants the idea in your head that you will save 30% off your petrol fuel bill. Wrong. You will actually save 30/130 - 23% of fuel volume. Factor in the 5% price premium and your cost saving is 19%.

 

So if you are doing 12,000 miles pa on petrol at 32mpg it will be costing you

(12,000/32 x 4.70) = £1,762

 

19% saving is £338. Add your road tax saving and you are £400 in pocket. All good so far.

 

Now comes the bad news.

 

A browse through this site reveals numerous expensive problems associated with the particle filter, fitted only to diesels. This is such an expensive item, Ebay publish a warning which pops up when you search for an HDI car.They have obviously had to mediate in some nasty disputes after these cars have changed hands! Cost estmates vary, but it appears £1,000 is about the cost of filter replacement. On post -2005 cars this is a service requirement at 50,000 miles. Citroen keep very quiet about this.

 

Whatcar.co.uk warn of diesel C5's frequently burning out clutches at 50,000 miles or so, with replacements "stretching into 4 figures". This is a result of the higher torque of the diesel engine. And there's worse...

 

There are an alarming number of posts on this site about 2.2hdi's prematurely snapping cam belts, no doubt due again to the aggresive power delivery of the diesel. The cost of engine rebuild is frequently prohibitive.

 

Added to this, there is more frequent routine maintenance required, all of which makes the £400 fuel and tax saving look like a poor reason to choose diesel. And to cap it all the smell of diesel makes me feel sick!!

 

Guess what - I run a reliable petrol C5 and refuse to be drawn into this misery. Think very carefully before your next purchase. Citroen ( and other car makers) love diesels because that's where the big maintenance profits are - they make very little on the car itself.

 

I know all you diesel devotees will want to douse me in petrol and burn me at the stake for this, but the more miserable/desperate posts I read , the more I am convinced that c5 diesels are trouble - "nothing but trouble" to quote the RAC in a recent post...

[coastline taxis]

After reading your posting im afraid i have to disagree with your comment regarding a c5.As previosley stated i run 3 of them at my taxi office and in 22 years of renting taxis out they are the best so far so much so that i intend to change the 4 mondeos i also rent out over to c5.I have had mine for 3 years with no problems at all. You state that clutches go at 50k i am just about to replace my first clutch in one of them with 155k on the clock.also particle filter ive never changed one yet and all three vehicle have between 150k up to 170k.The timming belts have been no problen and are just so easy to do. these vehicle start work at 6.30 am for school runs and continue untill 2am for nightclub work 7 days a week for 3 years. the only breakdown was when a driver filled the diesel with petrol. cant help wondering if people that are slating these cars are looking after them properly or just letting little faults build up till it just gets out of control and results in a big repair bill. The mondeos i run are going through flywheels every six months and they just love drop links and wishbone. maybe uve just getting a lemon.

many thanks

[seefive]

After reading your posting im afraid i have to disagree with your comment regarding a c5.As previosley stated i run 3 of them at my taxi office and in 22 years of renting taxis out they are the best so far so much so that i intend to change the 4 mondeos i also rent out over to c5.I have had mine for 3 years with no problems at all. You state that clutches go at 50k i am just about to replace my first clutch in one of them with 155k on the clock.also particle filter ive never changed one yet and all three vehicle have between 150k up to 170k.The timming belts have been no problen and are just so easy to do. these vehicle start work at 6.30 am for school runs and continue untill 2am for nightclub work 7 days a week for 3 years. the only breakdown was when a driver filled the diesel with petrol. cant help wondering if people that are slating these cars are looking after them properly or just letting little faults build up till it just gets out of control and results in a big repair bill. The mondeos i run are going through flywheels every six months and they just love drop links and wishbone. maybe uve just getting a lemon.

many thanks

[seefive]

Thanks for the feedback - it's good to get a positive view on the HDI's for a change - most of the posts on this site are discouraging to say the least.

 

I do get the impression that Citroen are trying to force us all into diesels, however. Try finding a petrol C5 on a dealer's forecourt. Almost impossible.

 

Maybe when the new model comes out it will swing the balance back a little. I've heard a whisper that BMW may be supplying the petrol units (Peugeot already use the Mini engine in the 207, I believe). In the meantime I'll stay with my faithful 2002 petrol

 

Thanks again

[Guest Dan Slatford]

Thanks for the feedback - it's good to get a positive view on the HDI's for a change - most of the posts on this site are discouraging to say the least.

 

I've had my 2.2HDi for a month now, after years of 1.9TD and 1.8/2.0i Xantia ownership. I absolutely love it. It's a 2001 model with 106k, and I had the timing belt, tensioner and water pump replaced as a routine measure. Not very expensive at an independent.

 

The pulling power is immense, very quiet and very smooth. There's other reasons to buy a diesel than any perceived or real fuel cost savings. MPG is a little less than I'm used to, it's working out at about 35 for my daily commute (14 miles each way, half town half motorway) but about 44 on long motorway trips. Costs a bit more to run than my trusty clockwork Xantia - but the overall experience (as both driver and I'm told passenger) is immeasurably superior.

 

I've looked into costs of Eolys re-fill and DPF, and it's nowhere near four figures at a local independent (although granted, an additional expense I wasn't previously aware of, but it still wouldn't have put me off the car.) If one has to run a car on a budget, why consider a large vehicle like a C5 in the first place? There's much cheaper motors around!

[coastline taxis]

I've had my 2.2HDi for a month now, after years of 1.9TD and 1.8/2.0i Xantia ownership. I absolutely love it. It's a 2001 model with 106k, and I had the timing belt, tensioner and water pump replaced as a routine measure. Not very expensive at an independent.

 

The pulling power is immense, very quiet and very smooth. There's other reasons to buy a diesel than any perceived or real fuel cost savings. MPG is a little less than I'm used to, it's working out at about 35 for my daily commute (14 miles each way, half town half motorway) but about 44 on long motorway trips. Costs a bit more to run than my trusty clockwork Xantia - but the overall experience (as both driver and I'm told passenger) is immeasurably superior.

 

I've looked into costs of Eolys re-fill and DPF, and it's nowhere near four figures at a local independent (although granted, an additional expense I wasn't previously aware of, but it still wouldn't have put me off the car.) If one has to run a car on a budget, why consider a large vehicle like a C5 in the first place? There's much cheaper motors around!

[Johndouglas]

I do get the impression that Citroen are trying to force us all into diesels, however. Try finding a petrol C5 on a dealer's forecourt. Almost impossible.

 

Citroen will supply what people want to buy. If there's a demand for diesels that's what will be turned out. Not surprised it's difficult to find a petrol version on the forecourts. Of all the guys on these forums, most of them drive oil-burners.

[72dudes]

Maybe when the new model comes out it will swing the balance back a little. I've heard a whisper that BMW may be supplying the petrol units (Peugeot already use the Mini engine in the 207, I believe). In the meantime I'll stay with my faithful 2002 petrol

 

 

You are correct in this seefive - although it's not confirmed exactly which Citroen models will get the small BMW engine, the C5 is most likely to get the 150bhp 1.6 turbo engine from the Mini Cooper S/Peugeot 207 GT/Peugeot 308, which I assume would replace the 2.0 143bhp petrol. More torque, lower emmissions, better economy.

I guess the 120bhp 1.6 non-turbo engine could also replace the current 1.8 at some time too.

 

With regards to your figures and feelings about the C5 diesel models, it's interesting stuff, but you have left out a few key elements in my opinion.

1) Depreciation: All C5s depreciate rapidly, but the diesels hang on to their value better than the petrols; this needs to be factored in.

2) A good diesel engine is so much more punchy at low revs than a petrol. Forget 0-60 times, it's 30-70 through the gears that matters, and you don't need to change gear in the diesel!

3) The diesel versions are higher geared. Compare the revs in top gear at 70MPH in my 2.2 HDi (2350 RPM) to your 2.0 petrol (around 3000 RPM?) and you can see how much more relaxing a long journey in the diesel is.

 

I'd choose a diesel C5 over a petrol every time, but I would concede that the 2.2HDi has added complexity and would recommend the 2.0HDi over it.

[Guest Visa10E]

Maybe the original point is correct on the savings between petrol & diesel, but these figures are based on 12,000 miles per year - I do nearer 30,000 miles per year and I'll bet there's people on here who do a hell of a lot more than that too!

[Randombloke]

Now comes the bad news.

 

A browse through this site reveals numerous expensive problems associated with the particle filter, fitted only to diesels. This is such an expensive item, Ebay publish a warning which pops up when you search for an HDI car.They have obviously had to mediate in some nasty disputes after these cars have changed hands! Cost estimates vary, but it appears £1,000 is about the cost of filter replacement. On post -2005 cars this is a service requirement at 50,000 miles. Citroen keep very quiet about this.

 

This isn't quite right. 406s and Xantias fitted with HDi engines have no particulate filters. Prior to 2005, only C5 2.2 engines had DPF. After this, you find even the 1.6 engines with DPF.

 

50,000 mile DPF changes AFAIK only applies to very early 2.2 C5s. Mine's a 2002, and the DPF change and Eolys top up is 75,000 miles. On later cars it is 120,000 miles. The deciding factor is not year of manufacture but RPN, this 4 digit number will then correspond to a service interval for DPF and Eolys.

 

Cost of filter replacement in £144 for DPF and £77 for Eolys, plus VAT. If people have SO much money that they can't shop around, then tough on them.

 

Whatcar.co.uk warn of diesel C5's frequently burning out clutches at 50,000 miles or so, with replacements "stretching into 4 figures". This is a result of the higher torque of the diesel engine. And there's worse...

 

My local indy Citroen garage when asked about clutches on C5s said they had NEVER done one as it has not been a problem area. If the clutches are burning out just how hard are people revving the engines?

 

There are an alarming number of posts on this site about 2.2hdi's prematurely snapping cam belts, no doubt due again to the aggressive power delivery of the diesel. The cost of engine rebuild is frequently prohibitive.

 

I think the failure of belts on 2.2s is due to the extra paraphernalia on them, I suspect that despite the larger valves, bigger cams etc, they have the same size belt as the 2.0. Or, it could be a duff batch of belts or clocked cars. (Yes, on eBay you can buy a mileage corrector for PSA cars). The power delivery is not aggressive, as the torque curve seems to be very flat and doesn't often any sort of revving above 2,500-3,000 rpm. The load on the cam belt isn't proportional to power delivery, simply to engine speed. I haven't the manual to hand but wonder where the Lanchester shafts on the 2.2 run from?

 

My local indy has only just noticed the problem of breaking belts, so it looks like it's a duff batch, seeing as they've had a lot of C5/C8s passing through the workshop.

 

Added to this, there is more frequent routine maintenance required, all of which makes the £400 fuel and tax saving look like a poor reason to choose diesel. And to cap it all the smell of diesel makes me feel sick!!

 

12,500 miles on the earlier C5. Most of them not expensive and who wants oil in an engine for 20,000 plus miles?

 

Guess what - I run a reliable petrol C5 and refuse to be drawn into this misery. Think very carefully before your next purchase. Citroen ( and other car makers) love diesels because that's where the big maintenance profits are - they make very little on the car itself.

 

The big problem for all car dealers in the UK is that the fleet buyers buy most new cars and they really cane the importers on price. Having done that they then dump them on the market at 3 years, 60k miles which has the effect that new car sales to private buyers are lower than would be the case in other countries.

 

Where the diesel scores is if you travel abroad, which I do, probably last year 30% of mileage non UK. Petrol C5 HPi also is not without its problems, but it looks like the standard petrol ones are ok. Coil packs seem to be a recurring problem, and since abandoning petrol I've never missed that damp, or loose lead, or arcing misfire that petrol loves to torture you with.

 

I know all you diesel devotees will want to douse me in petrol and burn me at the stake for this, but the more miserable/desperate posts I read , the more I am convinced that c5 diesels are trouble - "nothing but trouble" to quote the RAC in a recent post...

 

If people want the best, most efficient diesel in the World, then a VW/Audi/Skoda is where it's at. If they want a simple car, easy to mend and cheap then Mondeo. If they want their friends to be impressed then Merc or BMW. Citroens have a very poor record for depreciation, with good reason. It's a testing ground for the next Peugeot model, and reliability has never been excellent. Any of the "good" marques above will be 25 to 50% more expensive than a C5 with the same mileage and spec. All of them except the Merc will have a hard, bouncy ride, and some have poor seats. The larger engined Mondeo will remind you of a diesel tractor or old Transit.

 

Citroens are cheap second hand for a reason. People need to do their research.

 

Also, all petrol engines now have Catalysts, and at MOT time if it fails on emissions then new Cat time.

 

The main reason that diesels are so popular with the manufacturers is because they so much more efficient than petrol engines, and at the moment have more potential unless the GDi/HPi thing takes off, or stratified charge engines make a return (Honda Accord CVCC anyone?).

 

Up until recently the 2.0 6 speed was the one to get but some people might like the 178 bhp 2.2 that has become available more recently.

 

However, most of the complaints about 2.2 HDi powered C5s seem to stem from people either not doing some research as to why a car is so cheap, or not doing the DPF/Eolys at the right time.

 

Having said all this it still doesn't alter the fact that you have made a number of very good points against diesel ownership especially of older C5s without a proper service history. For a low mileage driver a petrol could be good buy.

[seefive]

Many thanks to everyone for your contributions on this . It's raised some very interesting and important points. Just to be sure, a pre- 2005 2.0 hdi would not contain the dreaded filter? How do the emissions stay low without that?

 

Randombloke -your comment about misfire on petrol resonates with me. I get that every morning when the external temperature is in single figures. Coil pack and CTS have been changed with no effect. Any ideas?

[72dudes]

Many thanks to everyone for your contributions on this . It's raised some very interesting and important points. Just to be sure, a pre- 2005 2.0 hdi would not contain the dreaded filter? How do the emissions stay low without that?

 

It's the Mk 1 2.0HDi (110 bhp) which does not have the particulate filter, which means looking for a pre 2004 model. The Mark 2 has different shaped front/rear lights (probably the easiest feature to distinguish) and a 138 bhp 2.0HDi engine.

[Randombloke]

Just to be sure, a pre- 2005 2.0 hdi would not contain the dreaded filter? How do the emissions stay low without that?

 

Emissions are done simply on how much the engine pollutes so a big one pollutes more than a small one. The smaller 2.0 may have just come in under the threshold and the 2.2 been just over, plus it may have been better to put DPF on the bigger engines as a small power loss would go unnoticed.

 

Randombloke -your comment about misfire on petrol resonates with me. I get that every morning when the external temperature is in single figures. Coil pack and CTS have been changed with no effect. Any ideas?

 

 

So many things. I would look for marks on the leads if there are any to see if there is any shorting, look under plug shrouds for tracking and clean off and light carbon deposit on plug ceramic body, clean out plug shrouds fully.

 

Sometimes this is actually an Air Mass Flow sensor problem as the wire sensing the flow doesn't get hot enough or gets too hot until the engine has been running a while. Might be worth approaching someone who can measure it or see if you can do a swap with a known good one.

[cjard]

these vehicle start work at 6.30 am for school runs and continue untill 2am for nightclub work 7 days a week for 3 years.

 

I think this point you make may actually be pivotal to discounting your argument to be honest. The usage profile of a taxi and the usage profile of a normal car are very, very different. As you note the taxi works all day, running nearly continuously; components never get chance to cool down, starve of oil, collect condensation or take a set as they go cold. Because they have to work, problems manifest are fixed sooner rather than later because a stitch in time really does save nine if your car is your living.

Additionally taxi drivers are far more experienced, natural drivers than the average crappy standard of a british driver and I'd expect they are much better with their gear changes, clutch use, hill starts etc.. If they have some relationship with you that makes them want to care for your car, then they are more likely to do so than the average guy who bought his own car and he'll darn well kick the crap out of it if he wants. From cold.

 

To be honest, i'd expect a taxi to outlast a normally used car for a variety of reasons.. Your car does more in the 3 years you own it than most cars will do in 10 and because cars are designed to run, not stop, they probably work a whole lot better as taxis..

[cjard]

Hi

 

For anyone considering a C5 diesel because they are more economical than petrol models, consider a few facts and figures before committing.

 

I take pretty much all of your points on board. I actually now drive an 04 Volvo S60 D5 that I picked up for £5500 about 6 months ago. At 185bhp it goes like stink and easily outpaces the 1.8 Honda Accord I had before.. But that Accord was £700 and I have to admit that though the Volvo is 50% more economical, the 300 miles a week that I do (compared to 600 in the honda) since I moved nearer work and bought a bicycle make this particular diesel very, very expensive. In its favour it is supremely comfortable and a much better car. I never stopped to work out how long it would take me to recoup the price diff (see below) in savings of economy alone (prob never), but I also have to attribute some consideration to the comfort and image factor of the S60 vs the battered old honda.

 

While some people might not understand your argument, £2800 divides up into a lot of miles at a difference of 3p per mile (assuming depreciation to £2000 over the years i will drive it) - somewhere in the region of 6 years payback at 15K a year.. and youre darn right that diesel is disgusting; it doesnt evaporate off your hands like petrol does and pumps are always thick with the awful stuff..

 

Overall though, I like the car, its comfy, quiet, powerful and smooth. It does the job. I think what we must really come to appreciate is that, total cost of ownership over three years from new to 3 years old will probably be about the same; diesels command premiums that offset economy, diesels are getting more powerful, petrols more economical.. At the end of the day the fuel choice will be largely academic for the most part. Pick for reasons of vanity, environmental conscience or placebo/illusion that youre saving money with (insert your choice here)..

 

I've decided that my next car will be an S-Type R while I'm young and stupid enough to enjoy it and we arent priced off the road.. The price of petrol will continue to rise and rise. If it got to £5 a litre would you stop buying it? Really? It's still cheaper than beer at that price. If you could afford to get to work, you'd still buy it.. Motoring as a whole is an increasingly expensive freedom, and the choice of fuel is largely irrelevant

[cjard]

If people want the best, most efficient diesel in the World, then a VW/Audi/Skoda is where it's at. If they want a simple car, easy to mend and cheap then Mondeo. If they want their friends to be impressed then Merc or BMW.

 

Ugh.. VWAGs diesel lumps really dont inspire me. 4 cylinders, loud diesel clatter, plastic timing belt tensioners and followers.. A friend who test drove a 57plate A6 said the lack of refinement from the engine was a serious blow to the image of the car, and he far preferred the 5 cylinder in the volvo. The old mondeos with the 1.8 Endura may be simple but that wouldnt really apply to a modern one. Apparently the dual mass flywheel has a propensity to wreck the clutch and slave cylinder if they arent all changed a tthe same time.. While bits may be cheap, its better not to be fixing them often. Take a check in the VOlvo forums and see if you can find one thing that the 2.4 diesels are renowned for breaking down over.. I struggled!

Vanity, ya sure.. Volvo has a stigma that wont woo some, but noone can deny that the modern volvos are among the most interesting and unique looking cars on the road. During Ford's ownership they got a sense of style and now have some very good looking cars. Add to the mix that they are well screwed together with materials whose quality is up there with the german marques, they nearly all have cruise control, a good number of them have stuff like heated front windscreens and seats (godsend in cold weather here), even the base models are supremely comfortable with seat adjustments, reach and rake, they target the taller-than-average market (great for me at 6'5; in contrast the C5 seats are awful) and perhaps that volvo ar ethe only people who can make an estate that isnt pig-ugly and you actually get to a very sensible Mondeo-priced conclusion.. Not that this debate is supposed to be a marque issue, more a fuel issue, but you'll struggle to beat a modern Volvo.. Give em a thought next time youre lining up the top marques :angry:

[myglaren]

Sometimes this is actually an Air Mass Flow sensor problem as the wire sensing the flow doesn't get hot enough or gets too hot until the engine has been running a while. Might be worth approaching someone who can measure it or see if you can do a swap with a known good one.

Also it may need cleaning, the sensor wire collects dust despite the filter.

 

Despite what appeared to be a highly critical beginning this thread has turned up some interesting facts and opinions without descending into the dreaded slanging match, an accolade to the common sense of all the posters here.

[seefive]

Fillled up on the M1 monday night ( I know - not the cheapest)

 

petrol at 112p

 

diesel - wait for it - 122p!!

 

That's a massive 9% premium, further damaging diesel car economy. How can they justify that kind of difference, when diesel is cheaper to produce?

Is this a conspiracy by the car makers and fuel companies to screw over the consumer, by any chance?

This is bad news for everyone, not just diesel car owners, as it feeds straight into the prices of goods in the shops.

Any comments will be interesting...

[applefishbanana]

with little knwledge of the diesel c5 range i cannot expect you to see the beneits. i wont be drawn into an argument but note this not all c5 diesels have paricle filters fitted also. ervice schedule on petrol at 40 k spark plugs air filter fuel filter oil and filter and pollen filter. diesel is air filter fuel filter pollen filter oil and filter. almost the same but no spark plugs so where is the profit in servicing diesels? come back with better back ground knwledge and ill be happy to put you in your place

[applefishbanana]

can i just add citroen has made its name with diesel engines they make the best best diesel engines in the world many other manufacturers use there engines if they were so poor why are they the best diesel engine manufacturer. it annoys me when people with limited knowledge bitch about things they aint got a clue about. diesel is the future for cars get used to it or buy a bus pass

[seefive]

Hi Applefishbanana (good handle!!)

 

I'm afraid you're missing the point here. I'm talking about money,not cars or engines. My calculations are, if anything, generous towards diesels. PSA may make the best diesel engines, but with 10k service intervals ( pre-05 models) and the frequent problems reported on this very site, C5 diesels are clearly not economical.

 

As the price difference between diesel and petrol widens on fuel company profiteering, this will only get worse. It's hovering around the 8% mark on average at the moment - knocking a big hole in the fuel volume savings

 

A recent study by The Times newspaper put the break-even annual mileage - the point at which a diesel becomes cheaper to run - at 43,000. Accountancy Age magazine concluded that diesels are invariably more expensive to run. These studies are averaged across all cars, and include all costs - the only way to truly understand the financials.

 

I am sorry if my conter argument upsets you, but please be aware that this board is not for slanging matches - just interchange of ideas, information and the occasional lively debate!

 

Welcome to the site.

[applefishbanana]

hi there i understand where your coming from regarding costs of driving. obviously diesel i becoming more expensive as this is the way forward. having drove almost every make of citroens i can honestly say i would not bother with the petrol engine all except the c1 petrol which is a toyota engine. a recommended c5 is the 2.2 dual turbo what a motor they also use this lump in the c6. oh and the new c5 is running the 2.7 v6 diesel out of the c6. one last point if petrol engines are any good why have the only c6s sold had diesel engines. they do offer the 3.0 v6 petrol. citroen petrol engines are crap at best. all the 16 valve engines suffer noisy tappets and the earlier c5 suffered from the cam pulley rattling. not cheap. to stop noisy tappets on the 1.8 and 2.0 c5 petrols irs recommended to change the oil at at minimum 10k intervals

[seefive]

citroen petrol engines are crap at best. all the 16 valve engines suffer noisy tappets and the earlier c5 suffered from the cam pulley rattling. not cheap. to stop noisy tappets on the 1.8 and 2.0 c5 petrols irs recommended to change the oil at at minimum 10k intervals

 

My petrol car has done 110k and it's as smooth as silk (barring an annoying, but minor misfire on warmup). It idles so quietly I frequently check the rev counter to make sure it's still going - it always is.

Everyone who rides in it comments on the comfort and quietness. Doesn't use much oil, and it's still quite clean with good viscousity after 20kmiles, the interval recommended in the service book.

 

I believe the HPi engines are troublesome, but the basic 16v unit seems pretty bomb-proof.

 

To each his own.