Jehovah Witnesses

[rikochet]

My son (aged 6) is in Primary 2 at school. There is a nice wee girl in his reading group who's parents are Jehovah Witnesses and therefore probably one herself. Now, my son had a "Magic Key" book the other day for homework, which was about Christmas and Santa Claus (nothing religous)........

 

I have found out that this wee girl's parents informed the school that she wasn't allowed to be given this book for reading <_< , as it was about a christian festival. I find this truly amazing and bit extreme, since I wouldn't have a problem if my son had a reading book about some jewish or islamic festival etc.

 

In the past these same parents have excluded their child from classmates' birthday parties, school assemblies and don't allow her to accept Chrstmas cards. In addition, when the little girl was at nursery school they tried to ban the staff from putting up a Christmas tree - the parents were told where to go :woot:

 

This Christmas, my son will be giving this wee girl a "Happy Holiday" card as he feels sorry for her (even at his young age) that she is being excluded. I wonder if she will be allowed to accept this.

 

Surely the parents' attitude to this is detrimental to their daughter social well-being and school experience. No doubt she will be "targeted" at school in years to come, by both pupils and teachers - shame, and something I don't advocate.

 

What do you think about all of this?

[trillian]

This is the problem with any kind of fundamentalism (religious or secular). It engenders as "I'm completely right, you're completely wrong" attitude, which most people find very hard to take.

 

To most of us the parents' attitude seems harmful to their daughter; but to them they believe they are protecting her from wrong.

 

I'm afraid if we believe in human rights, we have to allow people to believe things like that.... and even allow at least a small place in our minds for the thought "I could be wrong myself".

 

I think the "Happy Holiday" card is a great idea... you are trying your best to be inclusive, and it wont be your fault if your kindness is rejected.

[stimulator]

The problem here is that gradually the PC groups will have Christmas banned totally as it might cause offence to other religions. Note the use of the word might, as it appears that we all have to suffer due to it MIGHT not WILL.

 

Yesterday a town council banned the use of lights on the town Christmas Tree as they MIGHT fall down and electrocute a passer by. Haven't they heard of 12V low voltage sets or even LEDs.

 

Charles Dickens would turn in his grave all this Humbug is depressing.

 

I feel sorry for this little girl even more so that her parents won't let a medical team give her a blood transfusion if required as that's against their religion.

 

The EU has decreed that all Brazil nuts must be tested for a toxin that may cause liver cancer, so a shortage of them is expected this year. Humbug

 

No doubt Humbug will be banned as it implies a bug that hums.

 

 

God bless us one and all.

[carlosthejackal]

My last encounter with a Jehovahs Witness was one hunbg over Sunday morning, when they very politely knocked on my door, and proceeded to explain to me that dinosaurs could not have existed :huh:

 

We had a balanced and reasoned discussion, but they fell down on a few points, such as the inclusion of big, stony dinosaur skelingtons in most of the worlds major naturaul history museums. :(

 

Now, if dinosaurs didnt exist, christmas CAN'T exist. :blink:

 

Can it? :o

[tigger]

It is Great, any extremist must be catered for, No Christmas, No witches storys. Must be allowed carry swords, daggers etc, must be excused motorcycle helmets. Must be able to go into banks with masks (Burka) on when normal people must remove motorcycle helmets, must be able to kill animals without stunning by cutting throat and letting them bleed to death, even if normal people would be done for cruelty to animals. etc etc.

 

Why do we always have to give way they never seem to.

 

Why cant every one be like Dave Allen, "May your God go with You"

 

Live and Let Live including ME

[Dan Gleebitz]

I wish Christmas would be banned ... and replaced with a week off in the summer! B)

 

When I was an Apprentice, we had a JW lad, also an Apprentice who was in the same class at Technical College. At the time the JWs were prophiseing the end of the world a year after he completed his course ... never could understand why he was doing an apprenticeship .... perhaps it's me? :blink:

[RHP]

Why cant every one be like Dave Allen, "May your God go with You"

The above quote sums it up for me, as I guess the lack of a God would also qualify.

 

I don't know how far down the road of Political (and Religious) Correctness we will have to go before this whole ridiculous pandering to minorities ceases. It is bound to end in tears when the Peasants finally decide to revolt and take back their lives and their country.

 

An extremely emotive subject that makes me very angry so I hesitate to participate too fully :angry:

[fitshase]

It is Great, any extremist must be catered for, No Christmas, No witches storys. Must be allowed carry swords, daggers etc, must be excused motorcycle helmets. Must be able to go into banks with masks (Burka) on when normal people must remove motorcycle helmets, must be able to kill animals without stunning by cutting throat and letting them bleed to death, even if normal people would be done for cruelty to animals. etc etc.

 

Why do we always have to give way they never seem to.

 

Why cant every one be like Dave Allen, "May your God go with You"

 

Live and Let Live including ME

I'm setting up my own religion. Here are my beliefs (so far):-

 

 

(1) Paying tax is a sin (income tax, council tax, road tax, petrol tax, etc). <_<

 

(2) Any laws of the country are not applicable to me as I only see religious laws as being in place (laws to be decided). :lol:

 

(3) Anything else I want to do I should be allowed to do in the name of religion. :D

 

 

 

Seriously though, I think that political correctness has gone too far. My partner (soon to be wife! :o ) is a primary teacher in Ilford which is a very ethnic diverse town. In her school, they teach all religions and involve everyone in the process. I think that people should be more open to other's beliefs without having to express their own on others. In assemblies, they teach friendship, caring, etc., without involving religion.

 

Until recently, our company insisted on all staff taking 3 days of their leave for Christmas (i.e., the 3 days after boxing day) so we were all off for a week. However, as some of the staff didn't celebrate Christmas (some Muslims and Jehovah's Witnesses) they complained to the company that they shouldn't be forced to use 3 days of their annual holiday entitlement for a celebration they do not participate in. I think that is totally fair. It is now policy that you can work those 3 days if there is work to be done or for religious grounds.

 

To me, if religion was removed from the world, the world would be a safer and more peaceful place. Just my opinion (as a C of E member).

 

 

Regards

 

 

Fitshase

[Guest Domestic Goddess]

To me, if religion was removed from the world, the world would be a safer and more peaceful place. 

Hear hear.

 

Going back to Rik's original post:

The very problem that Rik is facing at the moment was an issue in Juniors class while in reception. The child's parents (JWs), after careful consideration and balancing the childs needs with their own religious ones, took a very pragmatic view - and have done with the two younger children who are now at the school. They can participate in all school activities and attend parties because they will miss out on so much; not just the "having a good time" aspects but also the learning that kids gain from these situations: social integration, learning how to be part of a team, how to interact with others in different situations. I may not agree with the principles of their religion but I certainly applaud their attitude in this instance. The same approach has been applied by the few Muslim and Hindu families within the school community.

 

Children should be allowed to grow up before they are forced into any religion. Once they are old enough to make up their own minds they can then choose. This is the approach we have adopted and if Junior chooses to be a Hindu, follow Shinto or go Hari Krishna when older, then so be it.

 

As for political/religious correctness: I'm a civil servant and I see/experience it/have to demonstrate it every day of my working life. The Civil Service promotes equal opportunity and diversity. It has generated focus groups for minorities - not just ethnic ones (which includes Scottish, Irish and Welsh minorities) - and this in turn has got right up the nose of some colleagues, who feel that they are being discriminated against as part of the majority. Me - I just float along and ignore the lot of them as much as possible. I'm a "minority" in my own right by birth but so what?

 

NB: I can no longer use the phrase "brain storming" when running workshops, nor use the widely used expression "nitty-gritty".

[RHP]

Children should be allowed to grow up before they are forced into any religion. Once they are old enough to make up their own minds they can then choose.

Like many children, I was christened when I was a very young child. I was also "encouraged" to go to Sunday School up to the age of about 10 when my parents finally gave in and allowed me to cease.

 

My parents were astounded when in my teens I took them to task over my Christening, something I never forgave them for. They had no right to involve me in and make me a member of any religious cult without my consent. There should be a formal method of renouncing membership for those who were forced into enrolling into something they abhor.

[Guest Domestic Goddess]

Entirely agree with RHP - which is why I wasn't christened/baptised as my (enlightened) late Mother was keen for me to choose for myself - and why Junior hasn't been either.

[Lancelot]

Children should be allowed to grow up before they are forced into any religion.  Once they are old enough to make up their own minds they can then choose.

I have no idea whether I was Baptised/Christened. No one ever mentioned it to me.

 

I’d rather believe in Father Christmas than J.C or God. It's all just a silly myth.

[Woj]

I wish Christmas would be banned ... and replaced with a week off in the summer! B)

Nothing simpler... Just move to Australia. :D

[rikochet]

According to my Church of Scotland minister friend:

 

"Jehovah Witnesses are encouraged not to socialise or befriend non-JWs, but to keep themselves to other JWs" (apart from trying to sell you Watchtower or convert you on your doorstep!)

 

Seems to me this is not politically correct in this (unfortunate) politically correct world we now live in?

 

BTW: I'm with DG et al - my children have not been christaned/baptised as I believe it is their choice to make when they are old enough to do so.

[Maz]

Hi there,

 

As a Jehovah's Witness, I have read with interest the comments posted about why we don't celebrate Christmas and thought it might be useful if I posted some facts as to why we don't celebrate Christmas.

 

The observance of Christmas is not of divine appointment, nor is it of New Testment origin. The day of Christ's birth cannot be ascertained from the New Testment, or indeed, from any other source.

 

Luke 2:8-11 shows that shepherds were in the fields at the night at the time of Jesus' birth. The book Daily Life in the Time of Jesusstates: "The flocks ....... passed the winter under cover; and from this alone it may be seen that the traditional date for Christmas, in the winter, is unlikely to be right, since the Gospel says that the shepherds were in the fields".

 

The Encyclopedia Americana informs us: "The reason for establishing December 25 as Christmas is somewhat obscure, but it is usually held that the day was chosen to correspond to pagan festivals that took place around the time of the winter solstice, when the days begin to lengthen, to celebrate the 'rebirth of the sun' ...... The Roman Saturnalia (a festival dedicated to Saturn, the god of agriculture, and to the renewed power of the sun), also took place at this time, and some Christmas customs are thought to be rooted in this ancient pagan celebration".

 

The New Catholic Encyclopedia acknowledges: "The date of Christ's birth is not known. The Gospels indicate neither the day nor the month ..... According to the hypothesis suggested by H Usener ...... and accepted by most scholars today, the birth of Christ was assigned the date of the winter solstice (December 25 in the Julian calender, January 6 in the Egyptian), because on this day, as the sun began its return to northern skies, the pagan devotees of Mithra celebrated the dies natalis Solis Invicti (birthday of the invincible sun). On Dec 25 274, Aurelian had proclaimed the sun-god principal patron of the empire and dedicated a temple to him in the Campus Martius. Christmas originated at a time when the cult of the sun was particularly strong at Rome".

 

Jehovah's Witnesses adhere to the Bible, Jehovah God's written Word to humankind.

 

I do hope that the above clears up any misunderstanding as to why Jehovah's Witnesses do not celebrate Christmas. I will be more than happy to answer any questions.

 

Maz

[trillian]

Surely the real reason JW's don't celebrate Christmas (and its a perfectly good one) is that they don't believe in the divinity of Christ! Not knowing the right date is immaterial... just because you don't know the true date doesn't mean something shouldn't be celebrated.

 

I am a lapsed Christian with a degree in Theology. Seems to me if you believe in Jesus Christ as a "good thing" you are going to celebrate his coming whatever the date. Why not choose cold miserable winter to do it in, and cheer us all up, and give the pagans a poke in the eye at the same time?

 

And if you don't believe, why not have a pagan festival yourself in nasty cold winter to cheer yourself up?

 

And if you just want a nasty cold miserable winter with no celebrations, that's fine, too, but you have my best wishes anyway!

[The Picasso Kid]

Maz

 

Can you please explain to me why (or has this now changed?) you are not allowed to or your religion does not permit / except blood transfusions? Life saving or otherwise. Most of it is though.

 

I have heard a variety of stories one of which includes the fact that a JW refused a transfusion for a pet dog.

 

If the answer is yes and lies within your faith as a JW then can you please explain why your religion does not believe in nor permit saving lives.

 

the

 

PK

[Maz]

Hi there,

 

You will no doubt agree that blood is a truly marvelous fluid that circulates in the vascular system of humans and most multicelled animals, supplying nourishment and oxygen, carrying away waste products, and playing a major role in safeguarding the body against infection. So intimately is blood involved in the life processes that the Bible says "the soul of the flesh is in the blood" (Lev 17:11). As the Source of life, Jehovah has provided definite instructions regarding the use to which blood may be put. As Jehovah's Witnesses adhere to what the Bible says, we do not accept blood transfusions at all. It is known that Jehovah's Witnesses actually benefit from better medical treatment because they do not accept blood.

 

All types of surgery can be performed successfully without blood transfusions. This includes open-heart operations, brain surgery, amputation of limbs and total removal of cancerous organs.

 

Also, there are many risks in accepting blood transfusions, such as AIDS, Hepatitis and Malaria.

 

I do hope that this answers your questions. For further information, please go to the website of Jehovah's Witnesses: www.watchtower.org.uk .

 

Maz

[Penny n' Buzz]

Ok I sit on the other side of the fence, as a pagan I celebrate Yule on the 21st. Christmas traditions such as evergreen trees, holly, mistletoe, cute little robins and Yule logs we're all integrated into Christmas to keep the converting pagans happy, bringing their old world traditions into the new Christian church made them feel comfy and of course the church leaders were happy. The Romans employed the same tactics when occupying Britain. In fact any successful occupation relies on the integration of people’s beliefs and traditions rather than the complete annihilation of a culture by the winning side.

 

It's a shame that the parents of this girl are denying her a chance to learn about another religion and she'll possibly grow up with a very sheltered understanding of the world where her religion is right and everyone else is wrong.

 

I don't believe in a divine being ruling us and handing us a rule book to which we have to live by. I find the whole denying of medical help based on religious grounds disturbing. Can people be so blinded by their faith and rule book that they are willing to let someone die just because 'it's what god wanted'? Sorry this is a modern world not the Middle East a few thousand years ago.

 

I live with my conscience, I have a deep respect for all living flora and fauna, and I thank the whole planet for keeping me fed, watered and sheltered for a whole year. As the days get longer again I look forward to the spring, a new beginning and a chance to learn from past experiences. As the cycle begins again I am older and wiser and hope that the New Year will be better than the old. And if I need a blood transfusion I'll thank the donor for their kindness!

[The Picasso Kid]

As Jehovah's Witnesses adhere to what the Bible says, we do not accept blood transfusions at all. It is known that Jehovah's Witnesses actually benefit from better medical treatment because they do not accept blood.

 

All types of surgery can be performed successfully without blood transfusions.

 

Also, there are many risks in accepting blood transfusions, such as AIDS, Hepatitis and Malaria.

 

Maz

 

Any god forbid -

- but you or a member of your family are in an accident for which there is a loss of blood - an operation not needed (so your bloodless operation will not work) - but loss of life beckons if blood levels are not immediately replenished - what do you do?

 

With regards to risks - this is from the National Blood Service

 

All UK blood transfusions are screened

 

In the United Kingdom we take many precautions to ensure blood is as safe as possible:

• All blood donors are unpaid volunteers whose health is carefully checked.

• All donors are asked a number of questions to help rule out anyone who may pass on an infection.

• Every donor is tested for certain infections each time they give blood.

• Any donated blood that fails these tests is discarded.

• The testing process is checked regularly to make sure that it meets very high standards.

 

The most important of these are hepatitis B, hepatitis C and HIV (the virus that causes AIDS).

 

The risk of catching hepatitis from a blood transfusion is very low – about 1 in 900,000 for hepatitis B (in fact, you are more likely to be struck by lightning), and less than 1 in 30 million for hepatitis C. The chance of HIV infection is less than 1 in several million. As yet, we don't know the level of risk of variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (vCJD) being transmitted by blood. However, we have put in a number of precautions to minimise the risk.

 

Thanks to these key measures and others, blood is now safer than ever before.

 

All that said I wouldn't watch any of my family especially my children, friends or a complete stranger for that matter suffer or potentially die from any accident that a blood transfusion permission and my consent would increase the chance of survival

 

"for any religion"

 

you base this belief on

 

"Blood had a symbolic meaning. It stood for life provided by the Creator. By treating blood as special, the people showed dependence on him for life. Yes, the chief reason why they were not to take in blood was, not that it was unhealthy, but that it had special meaning to God."

[Penny n' Buzz]

Is blood more sacred than life itself?! :(

 

Just read the Watchtower article on blood, nice piece of scare mongering, not impressed.

[soonbxmas]

Frankly I would object to my children having to attend Islamic celebrations..There is enough of this stuff being shoved down our throats while Our Country is being taken over as it is!...& have even objected to the schools directly when my children have had to learn about Islam or muslim religion....

 

& as for refusing your children a blood transfusion when it could save their lives..what does this actually equate to? Some Arse down the history of time decides they are going to put into context their beliefs for all Jehovas to follow...& centuries later Jehovas are still listening to this "Arse" with designs above their station...I mean...to get real & stop pissing about the bush..this is all that the Jehovas follows...written text made by some person long dead.....Tell U what....if my child was dying..& the only option was a blood transfusion...well......I think I would go with saving my child rather than following some belief written by an arse centuries ago...tell U what.....all these people who have died simply for want of a blood transfusion...wouldn't it be funny if god in any form didn't actually exist?? & it was all in vain?? Personally..I would call it murder thru blind faith..

[kirso]

Let me first say I am a complete anti religion man myself.

The fact that the actual date cannot be established may be true.

So why not just accept the 25 dec , its as good as any.

Or is it a case of not celebrating the alleged birth at all.

Like I say above I am tottally against religion of any kind , but I go along with xmas as a holiday.