pikesrelaybus

Hi Guys, I keep getting a database error when trying to rear forum posts. I thought it might be my adblocker but that's not it.. I doubt I'll be able to read replies from this post.. confused

Geez, ignore the above, it's a fuel issue.. engine ran fine and smooth with some fuel squirted into the inlet...

Hi Chaps... So, I have a stock C3 on a 03 plate. 1.6 petrol exclusive. it's in my front drive quietly decaying away. It started and runs fine when I can be bothered to check it but more often than not the battery is flat and/or I'm woken up at night by an alarm but not knowing who's car it is as there's no flashing lights. Fast forward to yesterday when a visitor's car battery become flat. Ever the helpful I dug the battery out the C3 as a temporary battery for them but it too was totally flat. In the end we got her car going and off she went to ATS. I returned the battery to the C3 and left it to charge over night. This is a new battery but I guess might not be in good shape repeatedly being deep discharged. Tried to start it, just turns over, flashing battery light, eco mode - yes sounds familiar... However, no matter where I google for advice, It's not having any of it. Here's what I got, it locks all doors on the keyfob but doesn't open them, except it seems the boot. When you press open the indicators flash and the immobilizer/alarm led's (two of them) stop flashing. I then insert the key into drivers door, and open - no alarm. I have tried resetting MCI? drivers door open, disconnect battery, wait, insert key, reconnect - nope. the holding the lock button for 10 seconds, nope. I'm tempted to check for spark but that means tools. I know it's low on fuel, it could just be it's empty, the former check with a little fuel down each pot would defo confirm this but I have a feeling there's something wrong with the alarm/immobilizer preventing it firing, not low fuel. I also note that the immobilizer lamp doesn't flash so I'm guessing the key is recognized. I'm really sorry if I'm just repeating the same old C3 gag but this is new to me...

Forgot to mention, we couldn't find the AC dryer, I thought it was the metal coil behind the front bumper but the pipes don't go there. I believe it has one as you can get the part on eBay. Just couldn't find it. I've just ordered a torch but to be fair, I believe I'm not going to find anything the chap in the garage, unless I start digging deeper than he did.

So, I took this info with me to the garage this morning who spent over three hours hunting for any traces of dye or an indication on his electric nose. For 2 hours the system retained it's pre-charge of nitrogen while he disturbed and waggled everything & anything to do with the AC system. There were no traces of dye anywhere and the only indication was the bottom right of the condenser which looks slightly beat up but as he said, a leak there would almost certainly be obvious, so put it down to false indication off his sniffer. So, far it was initially recharged which lasted 2 weeks, the last recharge lasted 5 days if that so there's a leak somewhere well hidden away. The latter included a bottle of Wurth stop AC. I've spent best part of £200 so an 8 hour investigation doesn't fill me with joy, especially since there's no clear evidence the evaporator has failed. It's a complete mystery but I've given up spending any more on the AC, just wind the window down. Fare play to the diesel specialists, he had a damn good look and is mystified at the results, clearly there's a leak but the nitrogen pressure test doesn't show any drop in pressure even after 2 hours.

Thanks for your reply. It's a 2008 model and I've had it from new. I noticed (as I learned how it worked) that the compressor would only engage if there was a cooling demand. Basically in FULL AUTO you can only adjust the temperature and in doing so I could hear the compressor clutch cutting in/out. If you adjust any other settings, air direction etc then the FULL part goes and it remains in AUTO. Having said that, one winter coming back from London I was cold and it didn't matter how high I set the temperature I couldn't get warm. It was only while playing about with it I switched off the AIR-CON by the dedicated frost icon button, then the warmth came, so it was basically on cooling away even when set to max. It was a pity I only discovered this at the end of the journey, not the start cos I was cold!.. So, what did the specialist do to the system, well he attached his automated gassing machine, it pressure tested the system fine, because I indicated issues he left it good hour and there was no drop. He then some AC-leak stop stuff, forgotten what make it was but it wasn't cheap, before re-gassing. It lasted 4 days. It's booked in again for this coming Monday but it might help if there was some locations I could point out for them to torch for the dye. I think the pressure of the compressor is pushing it past a leak in the hi side, like the compressor output or the evaporator. The pump is obvious to find but how do you look at the evaporator? getting a bit expensive now, 2 recharges, this magic stuff and a few hours has resulted in 3 weeks cooling. The first time it was recharged it lasted 2 weeks, the second time way less, even with the stop-leak stuff in the system.

So, today I went to a Diesel Specialist to sort my starting issue and he had a look at my air-con. They too could not find any leaks with the UV and after 30 minutes his gauge hadn't moved. He injected some oil which will help seal things but also came up with some stuff made by Wurth, "AC leakage stop plus", hopefully that and his oil plus a recharge will sort it out. It was about 6-8 months before I actually did something about my air-con, spurred on by the hot weather. Interestingly, my electronics to control the air-con is fully automatic, I guess you call it climate control. With the system in automatic I remember if you cranked the temperature up the AC pump would stop. I only found this out when it was particularly cold and even on "HI" it wasn't really warming me up. When I dis-engaged the AC pump, which I thought would have turned off anyway, it got a whole lot hotter. It's not a big deal but I don't remember it behaving in this "always on" when I first got the vehicle. It would be interesting if anyone with the same climate control, circa 2008 is able to turn the AC pump on/off simply by turning up the temperature... But, I'm rather hopeful the specialists will sort this out too..

I think we can put this one to bed now, It appears to be fixed and I was somewhat gobsmacked when I was told what it was. Of course now I know it kind of makes sense. So, firstly the dearlership's attitude put me in a negative frame of mind, the reason I took it to a Diesel Specialists today. Going on about how busy they were and owners doing DIY etc. made me highly suspicious of the work they'd done. It's just they're attitude sucks. As it turns out the whole of the drive train, sensors etc were all working fine and in spec. I did have some Errors which did not illuminate the EM lamp nor come up on my reader, P0335 - Crankshaft Sensor, P0520 Engine oil Pressure sensor & P0530 Refrigerant pressure sensor, no surprise, that's leaked out recently. So, I'm pleased about that, the firmware upgrade did actually work fair play to Citroen. My new starting issue was down to the starter motor, which cranked ok, maybe not as enthusiastic as when it was new and I still have my original battery, now 10 years old and showing signs of replacement each winter but that's been going on 3 years now and it still survives. The starter motor was drawing more current than normal, maybe my battery doesn't help but that was enough to screw up the electronics due to excessive voltage drop, possibly why there's a few weird errors stuck in the EMU. Maybe if I spent more than £20 on a reader I might have found them!!. So, somewhere within the forums I remember reading something about poor starting and it made me think, it might sound and crank normal (ish) but if it's drawing too much current then they too will have issues. It seems a plausible reason and the specialists I went to had a new Lucas starter within the hour and had fitted it while I waited. It certainly turns and starts like I remember..

I forgot to say, doing anything with the accelerator makes no difference.. It's a pattern of switch off, wait a bit, switch on, wait for the Glow plug light to go out and then re-try. A few days ago I'd repeated that pattern for about 3 minutes before it finally caught and ran. Once it's going, it's fine..

The dealership said something along those lines, I'm sure they're thorougher but the multiple visits would make it very costly. They refused to look at the air-con due to another issue and then it also needed a service, so that's two more visits, why they can't do it in one visit I'm unsure but it would help me. I guess they can't tie up the workshop so multiple visits is better for them. However, the engine specialist I'm going to on Wednesday to sort out my engine starting problem said it wouldn't be problem. ATS who re-gassed it looked but I guess they didn't want to put too much time into it as they'd not be able to repair it. The chap did say mind, once I get it fixed come back and they'd re-gas it (wink wink), I guess either free or a good discount. My C3's condenser also failed (a long time ago), Because it's aluminum it had got rot in it, soon as it was moved, it simply broke off. I could see the green Dye, very obvious where it had leaked. I note what you say about using soapy water but I was going to pressurize the system and look for bubbles but my first plan of attack is using UV torch.. (or at least, let the specialist have a look!!)

Idle same, 800rpm. Although it doesn't hunt now and I can have the electro-pnumatic valve connected all the time, no EMU light. Valve still gets very hot but then I don't know if that's normal. What's started happening more often is it won't start when warm. That happened once in the blue moon and a switch off, count to 5 and try again it would start. Once it's warm it point blank wants to run, it coughs and splutters but won't catch and continue. I'd also say that normally I would turn the key, two churns later it would fire up but now (when cold) it does the two churns but then thumps into life. Like the time is bad. I've thought about this while driving, if there was a fuel pressure situation or lack of, then I'd have poor acceleration but this isn't the case. It's going to a specialist on Wednesday who I'm rather hoping has a shed load of test equipment and can get to the bottom of the problem, of course I'll come back with anything new. In a way I guess Citreon has sorted the hunting issue BUT!, I'd say in updating the firmware has merely hidden the fault (The quick option!). When you plug the electro-valve back in, you still get a drop in readings and the engine changes it's tone to a deeper intake noise. What would be really good is if someone with the same engine and a code reader to reset the error afterwards is to check they're engines behavior and noting the "live" data...

Hi Guys, So, my 140k mile 3.0l 160ps bus has lost it's ability to cool the inside. This hot weather we're having prompted me to take it to ATS who lobbed they're automated system which showed no problems, 2 weeks later and it's stopped again. They told me that they insert a dye for such situations but when I took it back they couldn't find any leaks. The Nitrogen they pressure tested it with has a gauge which dropped slightly over an hour, they said it was such a small leak it was undetectable but I guess this means they have spent enough time on this and don't want to know. Anyway, question is, is there any weak spots I should look for. I'm tempted to get either a IR torch, have a look at night time or simply pressurizer it and go round with a soapy solution from a spray...

So its trip to the main dealer resulted in a software update. It is running smoother for sure and hasn't hunted since however, the MAF readings when the electro valve is electrically connected results in a reduction in readings, I'm now getting 11g/s rather than 6g/s and she's still a bugger to start when warm. So, I guess it's solved my problem for MOT time but I don't think this problem has gone away, just postponed..

Hi Paul, Sorry for the long delay. It's off to Citreon anyway but to answer your question, the EGR valve is disconnected from the vacuum pipe so it can't open and the electro-valve if disconnected allows the engine to run normally and I get normal MAF readings. It's only when you refit the electrical connection to the electro-valve do the MAF readings go super low, like you said, if they were that low the engine wouldn't run BUT!, I think they're not actually that low but since the EMU "thinks" it's low, it's compensating elsewhere (Fuel) which then causes the engine to run poorly. My live data only really shows the MAF, IAT etc. not the exhaust oxygen sensor. I also looked up the details of my engine and it only stated it has a cat and there's no mention of DPF nor any lights so safe to say, I ain't got one (Thankfully!!). I will of course, subject to Citreon BS return what was actually wrong and I'm really hoping it's a sensor and not the EMU itself. I will of course obtain the old one and repair it if possible, depends on how much crap there is between me and the components within..!

I'd have thought if I had a DPF then I would have seen a DPG warning light, pre-starting. There's no such warning light.