pikesrelaybus

Hi Guys, I keep getting a database error when trying to rear forum posts. I thought it might be my adblocker but that's not it.. I doubt I'll be able to read replies from this post.. confused

Geez, ignore the above, it's a fuel issue.. engine ran fine and smooth with some fuel squirted into the inlet...

Hi Chaps... So, I have a stock C3 on a 03 plate. 1.6 petrol exclusive. it's in my front drive quietly decaying away. It started and runs fine when I can be bothered to check it but more often than not the battery is flat and/or I'm woken up at night by an alarm but not knowing who's car it is as there's no flashing lights. Fast forward to yesterday when a visitor's car battery become flat. Ever the helpful I dug the battery out the C3 as a temporary battery for them but it too was totally flat. In the end we got her car going and off she went to ATS. I returned the battery to the C3 and left it to charge over night. This is a new battery but I guess might not be in good shape repeatedly being deep discharged. Tried to start it, just turns over, flashing battery light, eco mode - yes sounds familiar... However, no matter where I google for advice, It's not having any of it. Here's what I got, it locks all doors on the keyfob but doesn't open them, except it seems the boot. When you press open the indicators flash and the immobilizer/alarm led's (two of them) stop flashing. I then insert the key into drivers door, and open - no alarm. I have tried resetting MCI? drivers door open, disconnect battery, wait, insert key, reconnect - nope. the holding the lock button for 10 seconds, nope. I'm tempted to check for spark but that means tools. I know it's low on fuel, it could just be it's empty, the former check with a little fuel down each pot would defo confirm this but I have a feeling there's something wrong with the alarm/immobilizer preventing it firing, not low fuel. I also note that the immobilizer lamp doesn't flash so I'm guessing the key is recognized. I'm really sorry if I'm just repeating the same old C3 gag but this is new to me...

Forgot to mention, we couldn't find the AC dryer, I thought it was the metal coil behind the front bumper but the pipes don't go there. I believe it has one as you can get the part on eBay. Just couldn't find it. I've just ordered a torch but to be fair, I believe I'm not going to find anything the chap in the garage, unless I start digging deeper than he did.

So, I took this info with me to the garage this morning who spent over three hours hunting for any traces of dye or an indication on his electric nose. For 2 hours the system retained it's pre-charge of nitrogen while he disturbed and waggled everything & anything to do with the AC system. There were no traces of dye anywhere and the only indication was the bottom right of the condenser which looks slightly beat up but as he said, a leak there would almost certainly be obvious, so put it down to false indication off his sniffer. So, far it was initially recharged which lasted 2 weeks, the last recharge lasted 5 days if that so there's a leak somewhere well hidden away. The latter included a bottle of Wurth stop AC. I've spent best part of £200 so an 8 hour investigation doesn't fill me with joy, especially since there's no clear evidence the evaporator has failed. It's a complete mystery but I've given up spending any more on the AC, just wind the window down. Fare play to the diesel specialists, he had a damn good look and is mystified at the results, clearly there's a leak but the nitrogen pressure test doesn't show any drop in pressure even after 2 hours.

Thanks for your reply. It's a 2008 model and I've had it from new. I noticed (as I learned how it worked) that the compressor would only engage if there was a cooling demand. Basically in FULL AUTO you can only adjust the temperature and in doing so I could hear the compressor clutch cutting in/out. If you adjust any other settings, air direction etc then the FULL part goes and it remains in AUTO. Having said that, one winter coming back from London I was cold and it didn't matter how high I set the temperature I couldn't get warm. It was only while playing about with it I switched off the AIR-CON by the dedicated frost icon button, then the warmth came, so it was basically on cooling away even when set to max. It was a pity I only discovered this at the end of the journey, not the start cos I was cold!.. So, what did the specialist do to the system, well he attached his automated gassing machine, it pressure tested the system fine, because I indicated issues he left it good hour and there was no drop. He then some AC-leak stop stuff, forgotten what make it was but it wasn't cheap, before re-gassing. It lasted 4 days. It's booked in again for this coming Monday but it might help if there was some locations I could point out for them to torch for the dye. I think the pressure of the compressor is pushing it past a leak in the hi side, like the compressor output or the evaporator. The pump is obvious to find but how do you look at the evaporator? getting a bit expensive now, 2 recharges, this magic stuff and a few hours has resulted in 3 weeks cooling. The first time it was recharged it lasted 2 weeks, the second time way less, even with the stop-leak stuff in the system.

So, today I went to a Diesel Specialist to sort my starting issue and he had a look at my air-con. They too could not find any leaks with the UV and after 30 minutes his gauge hadn't moved. He injected some oil which will help seal things but also came up with some stuff made by Wurth, "AC leakage stop plus", hopefully that and his oil plus a recharge will sort it out. It was about 6-8 months before I actually did something about my air-con, spurred on by the hot weather. Interestingly, my electronics to control the air-con is fully automatic, I guess you call it climate control. With the system in automatic I remember if you cranked the temperature up the AC pump would stop. I only found this out when it was particularly cold and even on "HI" it wasn't really warming me up. When I dis-engaged the AC pump, which I thought would have turned off anyway, it got a whole lot hotter. It's not a big deal but I don't remember it behaving in this "always on" when I first got the vehicle. It would be interesting if anyone with the same climate control, circa 2008 is able to turn the AC pump on/off simply by turning up the temperature... But, I'm rather hopeful the specialists will sort this out too..

I think we can put this one to bed now, It appears to be fixed and I was somewhat gobsmacked when I was told what it was. Of course now I know it kind of makes sense. So, firstly the dearlership's attitude put me in a negative frame of mind, the reason I took it to a Diesel Specialists today. Going on about how busy they were and owners doing DIY etc. made me highly suspicious of the work they'd done. It's just they're attitude sucks. As it turns out the whole of the drive train, sensors etc were all working fine and in spec. I did have some Errors which did not illuminate the EM lamp nor come up on my reader, P0335 - Crankshaft Sensor, P0520 Engine oil Pressure sensor & P0530 Refrigerant pressure sensor, no surprise, that's leaked out recently. So, I'm pleased about that, the firmware upgrade did actually work fair play to Citroen. My new starting issue was down to the starter motor, which cranked ok, maybe not as enthusiastic as when it was new and I still have my original battery, now 10 years old and showing signs of replacement each winter but that's been going on 3 years now and it still survives. The starter motor was drawing more current than normal, maybe my battery doesn't help but that was enough to screw up the electronics due to excessive voltage drop, possibly why there's a few weird errors stuck in the EMU. Maybe if I spent more than £20 on a reader I might have found them!!. So, somewhere within the forums I remember reading something about poor starting and it made me think, it might sound and crank normal (ish) but if it's drawing too much current then they too will have issues. It seems a plausible reason and the specialists I went to had a new Lucas starter within the hour and had fitted it while I waited. It certainly turns and starts like I remember..

I forgot to say, doing anything with the accelerator makes no difference.. It's a pattern of switch off, wait a bit, switch on, wait for the Glow plug light to go out and then re-try. A few days ago I'd repeated that pattern for about 3 minutes before it finally caught and ran. Once it's going, it's fine..

The dealership said something along those lines, I'm sure they're thorougher but the multiple visits would make it very costly. They refused to look at the air-con due to another issue and then it also needed a service, so that's two more visits, why they can't do it in one visit I'm unsure but it would help me. I guess they can't tie up the workshop so multiple visits is better for them. However, the engine specialist I'm going to on Wednesday to sort out my engine starting problem said it wouldn't be problem. ATS who re-gassed it looked but I guess they didn't want to put too much time into it as they'd not be able to repair it. The chap did say mind, once I get it fixed come back and they'd re-gas it (wink wink), I guess either free or a good discount. My C3's condenser also failed (a long time ago), Because it's aluminum it had got rot in it, soon as it was moved, it simply broke off. I could see the green Dye, very obvious where it had leaked. I note what you say about using soapy water but I was going to pressurize the system and look for bubbles but my first plan of attack is using UV torch.. (or at least, let the specialist have a look!!)

Idle same, 800rpm. Although it doesn't hunt now and I can have the electro-pnumatic valve connected all the time, no EMU light. Valve still gets very hot but then I don't know if that's normal. What's started happening more often is it won't start when warm. That happened once in the blue moon and a switch off, count to 5 and try again it would start. Once it's warm it point blank wants to run, it coughs and splutters but won't catch and continue. I'd also say that normally I would turn the key, two churns later it would fire up but now (when cold) it does the two churns but then thumps into life. Like the time is bad. I've thought about this while driving, if there was a fuel pressure situation or lack of, then I'd have poor acceleration but this isn't the case. It's going to a specialist on Wednesday who I'm rather hoping has a shed load of test equipment and can get to the bottom of the problem, of course I'll come back with anything new. In a way I guess Citreon has sorted the hunting issue BUT!, I'd say in updating the firmware has merely hidden the fault (The quick option!). When you plug the electro-valve back in, you still get a drop in readings and the engine changes it's tone to a deeper intake noise. What would be really good is if someone with the same engine and a code reader to reset the error afterwards is to check they're engines behavior and noting the "live" data...

Hi Guys, So, my 140k mile 3.0l 160ps bus has lost it's ability to cool the inside. This hot weather we're having prompted me to take it to ATS who lobbed they're automated system which showed no problems, 2 weeks later and it's stopped again. They told me that they insert a dye for such situations but when I took it back they couldn't find any leaks. The Nitrogen they pressure tested it with has a gauge which dropped slightly over an hour, they said it was such a small leak it was undetectable but I guess this means they have spent enough time on this and don't want to know. Anyway, question is, is there any weak spots I should look for. I'm tempted to get either a IR torch, have a look at night time or simply pressurizer it and go round with a soapy solution from a spray...

So its trip to the main dealer resulted in a software update. It is running smoother for sure and hasn't hunted since however, the MAF readings when the electro valve is electrically connected results in a reduction in readings, I'm now getting 11g/s rather than 6g/s and she's still a bugger to start when warm. So, I guess it's solved my problem for MOT time but I don't think this problem has gone away, just postponed..

Hi Paul, Sorry for the long delay. It's off to Citreon anyway but to answer your question, the EGR valve is disconnected from the vacuum pipe so it can't open and the electro-valve if disconnected allows the engine to run normally and I get normal MAF readings. It's only when you refit the electrical connection to the electro-valve do the MAF readings go super low, like you said, if they were that low the engine wouldn't run BUT!, I think they're not actually that low but since the EMU "thinks" it's low, it's compensating elsewhere (Fuel) which then causes the engine to run poorly. My live data only really shows the MAF, IAT etc. not the exhaust oxygen sensor. I also looked up the details of my engine and it only stated it has a cat and there's no mention of DPF nor any lights so safe to say, I ain't got one (Thankfully!!). I will of course, subject to Citreon BS return what was actually wrong and I'm really hoping it's a sensor and not the EMU itself. I will of course obtain the old one and repair it if possible, depends on how much crap there is between me and the components within..!

I'd have thought if I had a DPF then I would have seen a DPG warning light, pre-starting. There's no such warning light.

I also forgot to mention, I have a spare electro-valve, I believe it's operated pulse width, so either it uses the exhaust sensor or it calculates what % pulse width it requires. Either way, I need to break the coil and insert a small value resistor, hook it up to my oscilloscope. If I don't see pulses I guess there's a problem with the EMU.. I do have a DPF, at least I think I have. There's no light to suggest I have a blockage problem, I know a friend with a Volvo had issues with his DPF and he was alerted by it's whinging/light display. I used to do quite a bit of M'way work using the cruise in an attempt to save fuel, these days I don't care so when I can will drive at 70mph. This surging engine has been with me for some time spread over many, many miles. What I'm worried is that the drive from the EMU (assuming PWM) to the electro-valve is stuck 100% which potentially, by design shouldn't be the case, in doing so has effected things like the 5v reference for some of the other sensors. I would be able to measure for pulses and indeed calculate what the current is.

Paul, you've been a great help. I took some MAF readings @ 800, 1000, 1500 & 2000rpm and the maximum error was 0.5g/s with the electro-valve disconnected, so I'm happy with the MAF. I've noticed the IAT temp is higher than expected and after an hour I checked with a thermometer stuck in the air-intake. When I started IAT was 40oC, I measured 35.6oC, after 2-3 minutes running the IAT was 32oC, I measured 26oC. However, one thing I've seen again, so it's repeatable, is the reduction of MAF reading when I reconnect the electro-valve, it dropped to 6.33g/s. Unlike yesterday I didn't get the erratic readings but all the signs are there it's in the back ground, just lucky I got some stable readings. So, basically the air flow is right but the MAF sensor is reporting wrongly when I reconnect the electro-valve. Which is worrying! The electro valve also gets ruddy hot quite quickly. I don't think it's supposed to be energized 100%

re-gasses and enjoying the coolness in this hot weather. It's difficult to understand what is right/wrong with regards readings. I have (as it was only £20) a MAP sensor, very easy to change but I'm also looking for a MAS, possibly the culprit. Obviously the various sensors vary which is a good sign but I have no idea if the readings I'm looking at are right/wrong. I've been searching on-line for some info on a F1C Iveco engine, found a full blown PDF on the engine but nothing obvious. I do have a pressure meter but no Anemometer. Even if I did I'm not sure where one can place it. Best removing the sensor and testing it on some sort of test jig.

Thank you for your reply paul.h, I totally agree/think your right. I'd lost my code reader (for months) until today as a result of the many "tidy up" that happen. Anyway, the situation is thus, I have the electro-valve disconnected (electrically/vacuum) and my engine purrs away happily for a 140k engine, like a little rattly. However, the EML is illuminated. So, without my reader I kinda gave up and called into the local dealership who promptly told me how busy they were and frowned upon my changing of anything, let along the EGR valve. Said, they'd have a look so long as it was put back with the original parts, ranting on about pattern parts etc. Now I've found my reader I can do some checks, so, vehicle not stone cold as it's been for a drive today gave me the following live data calc-load 25%, Coolent Temp 44oC, MAP 98Kpa, Eng-speed 800rpm, IAT 31oC, maybe slightly high, temp today at the hottest was 30oC and it's now 22:00. MAF 21.5g/s. These figures are reasonably steady/easy to read. So, The figures above are with the electro-valve disconnected, basically isolated the EGR valve. Plug it in, clear the P0403 error and re-do the live data. Apart from the fact the engine is now surging and thus the figures are not stable, I'm getting 65% calc-load, which seems bonkers but it's calculated, Coolent temp gone up a bit to 52oC, MAP is 45Kpa, engine speed round about 800rpm, IAT slightly more at 33oC and the MAF is 8.04g/s, most figures are bouncing about and difficult to nail a average. I'd be more than happy to nail this myself as the main dealer is SOOOOO busy they can only sort out my problem in one slot/booking, servicing means another booking on a different day and I still need to recharge my AC, I'm hoping it's simply run out and not a leak, it's lasted 9 years.

That's not a problem... however!!!. Having received the new valve which has the part number 46524556, looks like this. I checked it against the old one and it behaved similar. Of course I wrecked the old one to find out why it failed. I fitted the valve along with a pressure meter on it's output. When you switch the engine on I measured -30mBar, most of the vacuum is sucked through the third hole the other side of the valve which has a small boot with a little filter fitted. Moments later, the the engine's note changed (became throatier) and the vacuum was now 700-800mBar so obviously on but why? It's ticking over... Also even without the egr valve hooked up to the vacuum, I'm still get this hunting which has now really confused me. If you disconnect the valve electrically it goes back to running smoothly and the vacuum is -30mBar. So, I can connect all the pipes up and leave the electrical connection loose and all is ok. What I'm worried about now is what controls this valve? or maybe it's getting duff info from another sensor which fools the ECU to operate this valve. And why is it running rough even while the EGR valve is closed.? When the valve is connected it buzzes. You think Citroen will find this?

Hi Guys, I started a new thread yesterday but ironically as I explained my problem I stumbled across the fault but I thought I'd still post anyway. For months now my relay has intermittent "hunting" engine, especially at tick over. If you engage cruise control you can feel the vehicle surging as the power comes and goes. If you stomp on the accelerator your rewarded with a sooty puff of smoke which means these days a MOT failure. It's like it's running rich and those of you out there, like me, might place blame on the EGR valve since there's so much crap circulating around modern diesels. Sometimes, not always, she was a complete bugger to start and I'd get a engine warning light, more often than not she won't start first turn which is unusual. Yep, she rattles away at 140k miles but this is what I found. As I finished off my original post, post fitting a new EGR valve and then having to refit the thing due to coolant leaks, I noticed a "include file" option at the base of the post and thought a quick video of the thing hunting away might help. Upon switching off the engine I hear the familiar sound of the throttle body closing about 3-4s after ignition off and also a buzzing sound coming from the valve which feeds vacuum to the EGR valve. As the vacuum reduced the buzzing noise faded and went up in frequency. That caught my attention and I pulled off the vacuum hose from the EGR and immediately there was air flowing when it was ticking over, that shouldn't be at tick over. SO... what I'm saying is I was spot on diagnosing the EGR problem, the poor running was due to it sniffing it's own farts but it wasn't the EGR valve, it was the sodding valve. Both items are quite expensive, EGR was £160 (pattern part), £280 for OEM (if memory serves me right) and that valve, which looks like if you open it up it'll be broke forever is £120, on my 2008 it's fitted above the engine behind a metal plate. I've got a 2nd hand one off eBay. After I removed it I could blow/suck air through it, so I guess it's opened and stuck open. Having taken it off I get the engine light but it seems the hunting has gone away, well it did for the 6 mile journey I did this morning. I could of course blank the bloody thing off but then I increase engine temperature, so I'm led to believe. Still, worth checking that valve before you remove the EGR valve, which incidentally is much easier if you remove the heat ex-changer it's bolted onto. The worse part was the lower seal, I opted to leave the lower half bolted to the exhaust where the hex bolts had rusted.

Cheers Paul.h, I also see this procedure and I'd imagine 2.5 hours would be adequate time with a engine on a stand. I intend to capture most of the coolant using a single hose that's yet to be identified, just enough to reduce the level below pump height... that's the plan, whether that works I have no idea. As far as pump removal, I see the bolts you mention but I'm not sure if the pump assembly also forms part of the engine mounting. I have certainly changed the tensioner, bit of a fiddle job. It was fiddle as there was little access between the bulkhead and the edge of the engine. Until the new pump comes and I start digging I will not know if this is a job for me but if Citroen can do it without engine removal then (with the right procedure) so can I.. I was half hoping somebody here might have done the job and was helpful with some pointers. I'm not sure removal of the headlight is going to help!!.. I changed the tension with the right wheel removed and under tray, note my under tray only held in with 2 front fixings so glad I looked! report back in a few days.. but thanks for your help..

Aha!!, we have bearing noise and upon removal of lower splash guard a small pool of water. I'm fairly sure my water pump has failed but how on earth do you get to it?? I've ordered a new pump and gasket and been under there before when my alternator/wp (inner) belt tensioner failed, that was a complete faff but that pump is buried well above. The gap is just big enough to get my arm up there but it gets scrapped senseless. Still, put up with a bit of pain than the echo of one's wallet after it goes to the dealer.!! Anyone done one before got any hints to make the job easier.?? thanks in advance..

Yikes.. didn't see the reply, sorry. Bus been into Citroen this week for it's 100k mile service and I'm not the only one thinking EGR valve, engineer was kind enough to point out location and did me a couple of print off's. I'd like to know when this valve engages, reading online stuff I believe it should be inhibited at tickover and at high output power. Everything points to this valve so I'm going to yank the thing out for a clean. Citroen suggested inhibiting it through a remap of the ECU firmware but I'm against that, there is benefits with valve life (apparently) and it's been running a bit rough since 80k miles but never broken down and sometimes it works and ticks over fine. I'm going to make a video and lob it up on youtube, that's my plan.. Eitherway, for others who might have a high mileage rough running 3.0 hdi, there's two main components, the valve itself and the electronic valve that is fitted above the engine on a bracket. The ECU controls this valve which either lets manifold vaccuum to the valce or not, so I guess there's a return spring. The EGR valce is located on the left hand side of the engine near the bulkhead but it's very easy to access. Held in with two bolts. It explains why there is so much crap, soot and oil everywhere within the inlet manifold. I'd already removed and cleaned the throttle body and the sensor to the left. I did have a pressure error which was due to the loose air pipe to throttle body, it was tight but obviously not tight enough with traces of oil spitting onto the top of the engine.. Fingers crossed this solves it. Does 110k miles now... quick question? when is it time to renew timing chain??

This one baffles me, I have a Iveco 4cyl 160ps 3.0 HDi engine, it's intermittentantly hunting at tickover. It starts, drives and cruises fine but at tickover you can see the throttle body actuator moving slightly with engine revs. Wierd or what. Then, it gets weirder, suddenly you will hear the engine stabilse but accompanies with a "throaty" sound like you'd hear if you'd removed the air filter cover. Examining the throttle body I noticed the valve is now open 20-30% ish. So, effectivily more air is going into the engine, hence the throaty running, but the ECU limited the speed of the engine with injection timing. It's not hunting at this stage but I feel this is the real reason why I keep getting "turbo pressure sensor" errors. The error can be cleared easily enough but!, it's not long before it's back, usually provoked by stopping for a short while (like at the petrol station) where it'll return - Beeeep! I've replaced the throttle body before, I had one of those "old ones" but the replacement was a new one with a small extension wire, Citreon called a £200 wiring loom.. (who they trying to kid hey!)... Anyone suggest anything before I take it to Mr Citreon?