billynibbles

Interesting - it does indeed look like a modest remap could bring the engine up to or even past 'FR levels' with the added advantage that it doesn't 'remap' the suspension to FR spec too!

Sorry, I only just spotted this. It wasn't till I kept on to them about there being a leaky fuel injector that the problem was eventually fixed. I'm really annoyed as I'd mentioned this on every time the car went back to the workshop with nothing being done. It wasn't like it wasn't obvious - it was covered in oil!

I also considered a Corsa, if only for the integrated cycle rack! In the end I've gone for one of the 140bhp TDi Leons, not the FR, which was, for my local roads hopelessly rough riding after a two hour test drive. Even now, with higher profile tyres and a different suspension set up, the Stylance version's ride is quite sporty, similar in fact to the C4 VTS diesel. I also found the diesel FR's power delivery very difficult to get right without making the passenger's life a misery. The FR knicknacks didn't impress either - the gear knob felt hollow like a plastic bottle top. Funnily enough, despite the oddles of torque on tap, the FR diesel didn't like to go below 45 mph in 6th before labouring - the Citroen was quite happy down to almost 35mph.

Pity about the head room in the Astra Sport Hatch, I'm 6'1" so it'll be worse for me - I was looking forward to seeing what their 1.9 cdti 150bhp engine was like, but there's little point if I can't sit in it, and 5-door Astras just don't look the part. I see what you mean about the Leon's interior, and I'm umming and ahing about the ride. It's not really suited to the majority of my urban driving. What I could really do with is a C4 VTS HDi that I could rely on.............. Just had it serviced and the oil leak fixed (oil pump/vacuum pump changed under warranty) and it drives like a dream - maybe that £489 extra year's warranty isn't such a bad idea - after all it's only two payments on a new car.

Thanks for that Wozza - it does seem that maybe they 'saw me coming' in the first place, given the teething troubles from day one. Thinking back, they did seem in an indecent hurry to sell it by 31st March, and the salesman was leaving that day! I'm now faced with the dilemma of either changing it, especially in view of the shared engines issue, which narrows down the choice probably to VAG group, or Vauxhall, which I've not really paid much attention to, or I face the horrendous prospect of taking out a 5th year warranty at £489 and say a prayer every time I make a long trip which doesn't involve coming home on the same day. Just about to test drive a Leon TDi FR, currently on 3-years interest free credit, so I'll know which way I'm going to swing after that. There's also the prospect of a 2.2 turbo diesel Honda Civic I guess. I'll certainly be picking a dealership I can walk to next time!

I guess this is me bowing out from the Citroen forum. I never expected my C4 to be the world's most reliable car, but with what the computer world would call a mean time between failures of 2,000 miles, my 2.0HDi VTS coupe has been the most troublesome car I've had since I used to buy bangers. Having bought it with 14,000 miles on the clock (it was pre-owned by Citroen and fully loaded with goodies), I've only added 18,000 more myself. During that time, and thank God I lashed out on an extra 4th year warranty, I've built up a really nice first name terms relationship with the service desk at Citroen west London. On the day I picked up the car, the service light came on as I left the dealership. This was found to be water ingress to the lane warning sensors. Still never mind, because I also got them to recharge the dead aircon and repair the long gouge to the passenger side sill which been kept from me as the car had always been parked up against a wall every time I visited. A month or two later, whilst negotiating the Derby ring road on the start of a holiday in the Peak District, it started acting rough, with a hint of overheating. This was found to be a faulty cooling fan control which was only allowing the fan to operate at its slowest speed. Two months on, I could not get the boot open. This needed a new solenoid to be fitted. Then began a sequence of events that were to take about a year to fix. The car would not run smoothly on low throttle settings, ruling out the use of cruise control for one. It was also a pig to drive in traffic unless you lead booted it every time, which in heavy traffic is a crass waste of time and fuel. Several attempts to even recreate the problem were unsuccessful, despite assurances that it had been road tested overnight, and that it now had all the latest software patches. At this point, I seemed to be the only person who thought that a leaky fuel injector was important. Then came the recall, to rectify damp ingress to the ABS ECU. Bear in mind that THEY chose the date for this, so you can imagine my dismay when they tell me after two days that they are waiting for the part! Over a week later we are still waiting, but since the front bumper is off, I cannot really have it back. Then I am told that owing to a breakdown of the spares computer, the part needs ordering again. Still at least this time, they took my pleas to do something about the leaky injector seriously, so the (almost) one month off the road was (sort of) worth it. In fact, it then seemed to settle into a period of reliable middle age, being a joy to drive until I noticed the mess on the drive caused by a few drips of engine oil every time it gets turned off. This is really where I am at the moment. I have brought forward the Yr 4 service, and MOT, whilst they also fix the leak under what there is left of the warranty. Oh yes, I nearly forgot. On the way there, the Pollution Fault warning appeared and put the car into limp-home mode. Is it any wonder that I am thinking of replacing it earlier than usual? Guess what - it won't be a Citroen although it has at least converted me to the joys of diesel motoring! p.s. If anyone wants an unused VTS/VTR+ 17 inch alloy or even the roof bars and/or cycle rack attachment, PM me. We could agree a price that reflects the fact that I have not had the hassle of e-bay. I am in the Hounslow area if you're able to pick up.

It's a beguiling thought isn't - a car that supplements its own fuel by making it itself? However, given the old adage that you don't get something for nothing and even if cars do respond well to a mix of hydrogen and/or petrol diesel, it doesn't alter the fact that to make enough hydrogen to make any difference would take an inordinate amount of electricity and therefore drain off the alternator, and ultimately off the engine, so that any advantage from the added calorific value of the hydrogen would be outweighed by the added drag at the crankshaft, since no alternator is 100% efficient. That's not to say that hydrogen isn't the way forwards, but taking this idea to its extreme, it's just that if a car could be made to run off 100% hydrogen that it had made itself, you'd have invented perpetual motion.

Quite apart from the fact that the car came away from the ABS recall WITH an ABS fault it didn't have before, it's now developed two ICE faults and it won't run smoothly in traffic. I think the latter is down to yet another burned out resistance on the multi-speed cooling fan causing some minor overheating (how do I know this? It's been fixed once already!) The stereo has two faults. In cold weather, it chatters when first turned on, as if it can't find a CD when in fact there is one there, and once it's running with no CD in place, the radio keeps going off for 10 seconds whilst it tries to change mode back to CD. Luckily, I extended the warranty for one more year - methinks I'll be getting my money's worth! It's not all bad news - I still love driving it and LOVE the fuel economy. On a long run back from Swanage to west London, driving as frugally as I can, and slipstreaming and/or lassoo-ing removal vans etc, I got 70 mpg on leaving the M3. Of course, it might have been quicker to cycle! Oh yes, AND I've fixed the sliding armrest which used to reappear under my elbow every time I drove downhill or braked hard - a couple of those little stick-on clear neoprene blobs used for stopping kitchen drawers from slamming strategically placed to act as brakes did the trick

I wouldn't mind so much but the people I'm dealing with are Citroen Retail, not private dealers. The car had been used by a Citroen manager for its first year. The phrase 'saw me coming' comes to mind. I'll definitely be looking at how near my next dealership is when I start looking around again - I'm getting fed up with having to join the west London rush hour just to take my car in, when in fact I use my bike for work just to avoid it! I do have a couple of Citroen dealerships quite near but they both contrive to be in the opposite direction to my work, hence my persevering with the shower at Chiswick.

Booked my C4 in for the recall to check the ABS system, giving the garage two weeks notice. The letter said it would be about two hours work, which I was warned was more like 6 when I got there. No matter, I was going to be away all day, so I'd pick it up at 5.0 pm yes? No, and as they'd now got the front end in pieces I'd have to leave the car with them for another day. Second day - "we need a new ECU, which we're waiting for, probably get it tomorrow" Third day - pick up car. 100 miles later, the ABS fault light comes on, which it didn't before! Combined with a month off the road whilst an anti-pollution problem was fixed and sundry other gubbins failing, boot locks, parking sensors you name it, I can't help thinking that once this piece of crap is paid for it will be the first and last Citroen I ever buy. Of course, if it could just manage to slip into "reliable middle age" I might not feel so liverish about it. To be fair, it's never actually let me down on the road which really would be the death knell for my ever buying anything French again. Pity, it's a great drive seemingly let down by "close to the bottom of the customer satisfaction list" dealers. Good job I don't depend on a car for my work.

I bought mine with 14,000 on the clock, and only got 6,000 more out of the front tyres, but the backs, at 29, 000 miles look about half used. Of course I have no idea how hard it was driven in the first 14K Mine's a diesel though and as I understand it, they can be a bit heavier on front tyres, as the extra weight of the engine doesn't do them any favours on corners.

I'm an OLD coupé owner so you won't upset me! It does give my dad, who's knocking on 90, a bit of grief to get out of, since my Mum always makes him sit in the back!

Many thanks. I wondered about those switch blanks by the ESP, but then remembered that my car has all positions in use, what with the lane warning system etc. I think I'll go with your plan to try to find a route to the fuse box. As for the wires to the satnav itself, I think I'll 'disappear them' through the other side of the cubby hole and get them to reappear through the coin drawer where they can be hidden when not in use.

You read my mind Big John - you've even positioned the socket exactly where I was thinking of! The quarter light idea is growing on me too, now that I've realised it's a good idea to wipe off the sucker marks to deter thieves. It's a damned sight easier to do on the quarter light than it is half a mile away on the centre of the windscreen. Incidentally, where did you get your panel-mounted power socket?

I've found that my Road Angel 6000 works best suckered to the driver's side quarterlight - in fact it won't work at all in the centre of the screen without an external antenna. However, I'm not concerned about the pros and cons of 'metallised screens' as I actually prefer it positioned to my right, and it doesn't create a blind spot. In fact, through the side window it can still pick up 8 to 10 satellites without an external antenna. The only snag is that it's a long way from the console-mounted cigar-lighter/12v socket to the satnav for the adapter cable, and it looks naff trailing cable over the top of the steering column. You also have to allow enough slack for the door to open without ripping the plug out, which means checking that the cable hasn't become trapped. I've an idea for a much more discrete installation, part of which is to install a further cigar lighter socket in the little lower cubby hole by the driver's right knee. This would then give me the option of routing the 12v cable, possibly out through the retracting coin-drawer next to the door, where it could be hidden when not wanted. My question is this (at last, I hear you cry) - where would be a good place to tap a 12v feed without half dismantling the dashboard?

I didn't know I'd got them till the first time I drove in the dark in the rain, and then I wondered why I was throwing curious shadows patterns across the M3! Up till that point, I just assumed they were blanking plates for those who HAD got headlamp washers or holes for a towing eye. I normally drive on lit roads so I never noticed for months! They only work when the headlights are on and you operate the screen washer. Sounds like yours have developed a fault whereby they no longer park after use or maybe something's blocking them.

My 2.0l diesel VTS has taken to 'surging' once fully warmed up. By surging, I mean there's a distinct slowing down and picking up again mainly when accelerating gently. It's not violent like 'kangaroo petrol' but it's as if I'm messing with the pedal when I'm not. Two days in the Citroen dealer has so far come up with nothing, although they did update the software. In fact just as they were about to hand me the keys, the engine service light came back on. I've driven it home against my better judgement as they tell me they've now discovered that the 'ECU for the fuel additive system' is not showing up on their diagnostics, and they'll ring me when the part's in. Since this now briefly brings up a 'pollution system fault' warning when you first start the engine (it didn't before I took the car in), could this be the cause of the car hunting? Thank goodness it's still under warranty until 24th November.

Funny - I've got some left over from refitting the kitchen too. They sound like a better option than messing around with stick-on magnets.

Panoramic roof and Navidrive - you really have got a fully loaded version there, haven't you? Yes, my arm rest slides forwards too - been thinking about creating some extra resistance with pair of those self-adhesive magnetic L-Plate mounting strips from Halfords, using two bits, one under the arm rest and one on the CD changer, since there's no metal for it to attract itself to. I must admit that I find the ride harsh too, but then I live in the London Borough of Hounslow which seems to have adopted a 'speed-potholes' policy as being cheaper than building ramps! Like you though, I still think it's the nicest car I've had in a long time, and frequently sneak over-the-shoulder glances at it, on the pretext of checking that the alarm is set - especially when I've just polished it! Those glove boxes really do let the C4 down - almost everyone seems to have had some trouble with them. I've not actually broken mine, but came close by jamming it. Luckily I managed to coaxe it open. I later realised that the secret is to make sure that it isn't overloaded and that nothing can slide into the hinged area.

Thinking about the wider tyres for a moment - do I recall you can get the power steering reprogrammed to 'work harder' so you don't have to struggle with all the extra rubber on the road?

I know the question of roof bars and the rusting of the concealed fixing bolt holes has come up before, so I thought I'd chuck my two penn'th in now that I've got some bars, in preparation for a roof-mounted bike rack that I've also bought via e-bay from a dealer in Norwich. I just took delivery of a used-once pair of the official Citroen C4 roof bars (off e-bay too) and they seem very sleek, especially the locking cowls that hide the fixing bolts. I know the question of rusty thread has reared its head on more than one occasion on this forum, and I found that the front bolt holes were more difficult to use than the rear especially with the short allen key they give you. Maybe rain gravitates into them better when standing still. Mind you, if they won't do up with the allen key supplied then maybe you shouldn't proceed, just in case you're 'cutting some new thread'. On that subject, I noticed that Citroen had also seen fit to include a single thread-tapping bolt to aid the passage on any really badly rusted bolt holes Keeping them 'Vaselined' in the first place seems to be a better solution though. Incidentally, the bars fit 3 and 5 door versions. Addition: I now have the bike rack fitted. There are definite advantages to sticking to one system, in this case, the official Citroen kit, as I didn't need to clamp it to the roof bars with the usual U-Bolts. The whole thing can be slide in sideways, using slots in the aluminium extrusion of the roof bars and tightened up once in position. Very neat. It's a good job that clamping the bike itself in place is a one-handed job, as it is quite nerve-wracking holding a bike with nasty sticky-out bits above your precious paintwork. You also need to allow at least 4 feet behind you to step back as you lift the bike down, otherwise you risk going perilously close to your door panels with the pedals! All I've got to get used to now is remembering that I'm driving something as tall as a mobile home.

Well, I take your meaning, but surely, the only two factors needed to measure mpg instantaneously are current speed and current rate of fuel usage. Therefore, if as you say, lifting doesn't cut the fuel off, both coasting and just lifting your foot off on a downhill section ought to give the same mpg, but they don't. In gear it rockets to 999, whilst coasting it is more staid at around 256 or some such. This tends to indicate that there's a difference in diesel fuel flow between the two methods, especially since coasting may indeed see you speed up if the hill is steep enough. The only real difference would be that coasting would see the rpm drop, so if anything coasting ought to show the higher result but it doesn't. Indeed in my past two petrol cars with computers, it's been coasting that shows the higher result. This being my first diesel is what lead me to my question about fuel cut-off. Anyway, before I get accused of agonising over how many angels can sit on the head of a pin, I'll drop it, especially since coasting is illegal! Clearly, the fuel computer has a few anomalies of its own. It would be interesting to see if you get the same with your petrol version. p.s. Still at least we've got this thread back on course. For a moment there it looked like it was going to become another 'I followed someone wearing a trilby hat in an Austin 1300 with his mother in law in the back for 200 miles at 56 mph and got 73 mpg' effort! Just got back from Norfolk and the place is crawling with 'em.

The other 'good' way (if you can call it good!) to get excellent fuel consumption is to join in the '50 mph wall of traffic' on the M3 early on a Sunday evening! However, my original question was - does lifting your foot whilst in gear cut the fuel completely? That would explain the 999mpg (since it would in fact be 'infinite mpg' at that point) compared to the figures shown if you coast out of gear, which still needs a squirt of fuel for idling.

It could be something to do with the fact that (well, I assume it's a fact!) 6th gear gives you even less engine-braking than 5th

I've puzzled over this phenomenon, but I think I've cracked it. Whenever I lift my foot off the accelerator in my 2.0 HDi, the instantaneous mpg shoots off the scale, showing 999 mpg. However, if I coast instead (OK illegal, I know, so spare me the lecture), I 'only' get around 350 mpg with my foot off the pedal. Would I be right in thinking that lifting your foot with the car in gear cuts off fuel completely, whereas coasting which is essentially idling on the move, forces the fuel system to maintain the idle? If this is so, it maybe goes part way to explain the slight 'flutter' I get when using cruise control when the car commences a gentle downhill slope, say on a motorway, in 6th gear. This would make the system alternate between a light 'foot' on the pedal, and cutting off the fuel completely.