C8 Engine Fire

[blackdown1998]

My C5 caught fire on Christmas Day whilst parked at home, not having been used for several days. Insurance says electrical fault therefore not their responsibility. Citroen say they are unsure of the cause. It is still under warranty etc and the discussions/arguements are going on daily.

I have heard that there is a history of C5 electrical failures/fires. does anyone have any info.

Ian

[Moi]

Hi Blackdown,

 

Yesterday my C8 caught fire by itself and burnt to the ground. Only 5 months old and it was a nice red colour (see picture below) and fortunately my 4 kids were not in the car at the time, but the child seats will obviously all need replacing. All factors lead to an electrical fault but as per your situation the fire damage is so bad they will probably not be able to determine the cause.

 

On the insurance: My insurance company told me the same as they told you first off, that it was electrical fault and therefore my policy didn't cover it. However, with a little research, it turns out that the policy doesn't cover the actual component that malfunctioned, but any fire damage to anything else is is covered. Net result - as the car is a wright-off the component that failed is irrelevant. Worth going back to them to check if you haven't done so already.

 

I would be interested in how you got on with Citroen since this post.

 

http://www.bournefarm.com/fire/3.JPG

[Rich_Eason]

So what was the cause then? What was the component?

 

I take it the house insurance is going to cover the cost of the repair of your drive as well?

[Moi]

So what was the cause then? What was the component?

 

I take it the house insurance is going to cover the cost of the repair of your drive as well?

 

Too early to say just yet, but strangely the fire started underneath the engine compartment, and not in it. To attempt to disconnect the battery we lifted the bonnet (yes I know you are not supposed to do that), but there was no smoke or fire there, only underneath. I guess that narrows it down a little, but I don't know enough about what is located there that could be a risk and lead to this. (If anyone has any photos of the underside of a C8, taken from the front looking under and towards the front axis that would be very helpful).

 

Yes insurance are covering the repair of the drive :-)...

[Rich_Eason]

Too early to say just yet, but strangely the fire started underneath the engine compartment, and not in it. To attempt to disconnect the battery we lifted the bonnet (yes I know you are not supposed to do that), but there was no smoke or fire there, only underneath. I guess that narrows it down a little, but I don't know enough about what is located there that could be a risk and lead to this. (If anyone has any photos of the underside of a C8, taken from the front looking under and towards the front axis that would be very helpful).

 

Yes insurance are covering the repair of the drive :-)...

 

Had the car only just been used prior to it going up?

 

It suggests to me that this could have been perhaps caused by a heat transfer combustion and not an electrical fault as I'd hazard a guess that most of the electric bits with any umpf are at the top...or it was malicious?

 

I doubt underneath you'd see much as I would expect to see some sort of plastic shield.

[Moi]

Had the car only just been used prior to it going up?

 

It suggests to me that this could have been perhaps caused by a heat transfer combustion and not an electrical fault as I'd hazard a guess that most of the electric bits with any umpf are at the top...or it was malicious?

 

I doubt underneath you'd see much as I would expect to see some sort of plastic shield.

 

The car had done a short journey (about 10 minutes) 90 minutes prior and had been stationary, locked, and all by itself for all that time. The chances of it being malicious are almost zero - we live in the middle of nowhere..

 

Hmm - Interesting though about it not being electrical. What/how would you thnk that a fire could have started by heat transfer combustion? Are you thinking that this is specific unique to my C8 for some reason, or could it be a build/design fault?

 

I'll post a photo of another C8 and point to where the witness saw it start - maybe someone knows what component around that area.

 

Thanks.

[lesmotor]

Hmm - Interesting though about it not being electrical. What/how would you thnk that a fire could have started by heat transfer combustion? Are you thinking that this is specific unique to my C8 for some reason, or could it be a build/design fault?

 

 

While picking up my C4 from the dealers the other day, I overheard the receptionist talking to the service manager, about a C8 which caught fire that Morning. Apparently they thought it was something to do with the starter motor!

[Moi]

While picking up my C4 from the dealers the other day, I overheard the receptionist talking to the service manager, about a C8 which caught fire that Morning. Apparently they thought it was something to do with the starter motor!

 

That's quite interesting. Which part of the country were you in, and which day was it? My dealer is in Worcester - is this the same (ie were they talking about my car) or another perhaps?

 

Anyway: Here is a diagram (lacking real photos at the moment) of the C8 and the location of the fire.

http://adrianharvey.me.uk/c8fire/c8firelocation.gif

 

Interestingly, the fire was under the engine compartment at this location ...

 

Anybody know what components are around this area that could have caused a fire to start?? And if it is of any help, the fire was a white-ish colour as it started, which first appeared from under the front passenger wheel arch.

[lesmotor]

That's quite interesting. Which part of the country were you in? My dealer is in Worcester - is this the same (ie were they talking about my car) or another perhaps?

 

Sorry, I forgot to say that it caught fire in the dealer’s workshop!!!

 

I live in Swansea, so yours is not the only C8 to have been destroyed by a mysterious fire!

[Moi]

An Update:

 

So, we have put a new C8 on the ramp and taken a close look at thge underside to see what components are in the rough location where the fire started..

 

This first picture is a view from the front of the car looking back. The area highlighted is where 2 witnesses who looked under the car saw flames from when it first started.

http://adrianharvey.me.uk/c8fire/C8_1a.jpg

 

This second picture is a close up, with another focus area to highlight the area where flames started.

http://adrianharvey.me.uk/c8fire/C8_2a.jpg

 

Note: Although this is a C8 underside, it is a different engine than my car and the configuration/layout is slightly different.

 

Anybody got any ideas what these components are or why/how they could decide to catch fire? My best guess at the moment is an electrical short circuit as the car has been standing still for some time and there is unlikely to be any heat build up that could have transfered to anything. Also, as this was a diesel, it is unlikely to be fuel related.

 

The black box in the picture is a heater. I guess that if something short-circuited in there for whatever reason it might have caused it.

 

One other factor that is probably relevant. Where I live there are quite a few 'fords' (the drive through type, not the car types), and therefore the underside of the car can get quite wet in the winter months. Not that this should be a problem in normal situations, but might be a factor.

 

Any thoughts/comments from anyone??

 

Citroen UK are not being very kind by the way. Although the significant probability is that this is a fault with the car, they are unwilling to help or assist me or my family in any way. (Although I must point out that the dealer in Worcester has been excellent, and very helpful indeed.)

[Moi]

So, not sure if you lot are interested in this any more, but I'll post this last one for now and see how we go.

 

Today I had a look at the underside of my car that burnt out to try and match the witness statements that something like wires were hanging down and alight from the area specified in the post above.

 

What I found was that on my 'ex'-car, there are indeed wires hanging down from this location, which the logical conclusion is that this is where the fire started from. What I do not yet know (but will find out) is what these wires are for.

 

Note that when I inpected the car, the wiring is basically metal and therefore remain mostly intact after the extensive fire. The wires hanging down in the pictures below clearly should not be hanging down unless there was a problem, as all the rest of the wiring on the car is almost exactly where it was before the fire started.

 

Any ideas anyone - or comments??

 

http://adrianharvey.me.uk/c8fire/Photos1a.jpg

[Guest CE05LDB]

My God I can't get over that what a blow. I feel sorry for you. I hope you get Citroen to replace it.

[Guest GarthyB]

Sorry to hear of your misfortune....have you tried contacting Watchdog...if they can get more than half a dozen stories of the same thing happening on the same car, they'll put some weight behind your claim to Citroen.

 

As to what might have cause it....someone did mention the starter motor earlier in the topic!!

There were instances , can't remember what car, when some starter motors didn't disengage after the start. They were then driven by the engine, gradually getting overheated...when the car was then stopped, if it got that far, all of the heat had to go somewhere....normally melting wires and sometimes starting fires!!

[Ian_Edward]

Hi,

My dad bought an almost new C8 from Citroen in October, and since the beginning of this year we have had no end of problems!

We were aware of the common electrical problems prone to Citroes (as well as the Puegeot and Fiat) but we have had 2 Fiat Ulysse over the past 6 years and not had a single problem.

Anyway, we first had an "airbag fault" warning displaying, but were told this warning was wrong, the airbags were fine. They fixed this, but it came back. Then in Easter teh electrics totally failed (windows, elec sliding doors, temperature display and more) so it went to the garage, and they tried various things to fix it.

 

To cut a long story short, it has been to and from the garage at least once a fortnight, and they don't know what's wrong with it/what to do, they've even replaced the whole main brain of the car.

 

I saw this post the other week, and thought it terrible. Then today, after a day of driving with my dad, we got back into the car but it filled with white smoke, and we thought it was on fire. Luckily we were next to a car garage and they had extinguisures, but before they had chance to use them it stopped. I thought this problem sounded familiar, and remembered this topic!

 

After reading again, in the diagram provided by "Moi", that is the exact place I thought the smoke was coming from.

 

Was there ever a solution to this?

We love the car, but are so pissed with the continual problems, help!

[Moi]

So an update on this for you.

 

1st - The insurance company have paid up which means I now have another car. Needless to say I did not get a replacement C8 (we went for the Seat Alhambra).

 

2nd - Citroen did send out their UK technical team to inspect the burnt out vehicle. They spent a good few hours on it, but have not shared their findings with me. I was there however, and their working assumption matched the best guess of the Trading Standards experts.

 

The thinking was that the problem was caused by the Particulate Filter. The particulate filter gets clogged with carbon, and in order to clear it the car automatically does a 'burn' cycle. This is controlled by the engine management system and can happen at any time. The normal exhuast temp gets to about 200-250 degrees. The burn cycle raises it to around 450 degrees. To help it along, they also inject a chemical.

 

The theory is that for some reason the heating cycle went wrong and got out of control.

 

Never heard back from Citroen, and never got a penny in compensation and never even got a soft apology.

 

Crazy of them really - stories like this travel really fast, and the customer relations manager at Citroen UK did a really bad job of handling it. (Even to the extent that she hung the phone up on me when the conversation wasn;t going the right way for her) - and yes she was the boss of all and on the UK management team.

 

Quite worrying really - not sure that they intend to fix the problem and stop it happen to anyone else.

 

Anyway - net result - lose the C8 first chance you get, better than losing something more precious.

[iannez]

if the car had done a burn cycle you would know because it raises the revs to about 4000rpm for 3 to 4 minutes. think you would notice this. the part under the car that you have circled is an additional heater. it works just like a oil burner using diesel straight from the tank. if you look close you can see a small exhaust. if the fire started in this area i would dare bet this was the culprit.