Ecu Remapping

[rikebo]

just wondered if anyone has had their 1.6 hdi remapped yet cos i may get mine done. my neighbours had his bmw 3.0tdi remapped and says its awesome now up to 300bhp.....

[wozza]

dont think anyone has had there hdi remapped here yet i know few of us are thinking about getting our petrol ones done and think its sammy whos getting the 2.0 hdi remapped if i remember correctly.

 

And with just a remap i highly doubt his bmw will be hitting 300bhp. Will have needed mre mods than that to get 70bhp increase even on a diesel. Hes looking around 280bhp with a remap little more with exhaust and the mapped designed for it.

[Mike5483]

What sort of limit is there powerwise???

 

Will the standard engine take a big remap???

 

I mean, I know my 2.0litre can have upto 180BHP on the VTS, but assume there is some work done to uprate internals.

 

What sort of power you looking at from your 1.6???

 

How much do you reckon you could get out of a standard 2.0liter petrol???

 

Are there any warrenty implications???

[Stuey]

you can get crazy power increases if you combine ECU remap, induction kit and exhaust system.

 

it seems to be a bit unclear if tweaking is going to affect warranty or not, something like a remap would'nt show up unless Citroen are really looking for it...KFK will be the man in the know if Citroen can spot a remap...

[sammys hdi vts]

Here are the figures, look on hdi tuning post for links to websites etc. It costs in the region of £360 to get the work done. Ive been trying to contact Celtc tuning, they were good at the start but now no reply, wondering if they are on hols. As far as I am aware you dont need any uprated engine parts. Its a straight laptop plug in, change the ecu parameters ( all within design limitations) to the new set up and off you go! I know wozza said try angeltuning but they want me to remove the ecu and send it to scotland, not keen! Will keep trying, I will get it done within the next couple of months and let you all know the outcome.

 

Citroen C4 2.0 petrol VTS

Standard bhp 180 upto 192ish

petrol not as easy to do a remap on for big power hikes, dont know why

 

Citroen C4 2.0 HDI

standard (bhp) 136 upto 180

standard torque (Nm) 320 upto 430

 

Citroen C4 1.6 HDI (euro III)

standard (bhp) 110 upto 136

standard torque (Nm) 240 upto 290

 

NEW - Citroen C4 1.6 HDI (euro IV)

standard (bhp) 90 up to 115

standard torque (Nm) 215 up to 270

 

Sammy

[sammys hdi vts]

oh forgot about the warranty, yeah it buggers it! Citroen wont cover any parts that break that can be directly linked back to the ecu remap. eg, if rear wiper breaks then fine, if driveshaft goes due to excessive torque then screwed. I however figure that you only live once and I dont intend to take mine above the 180bhp that most remap companies suggest. I think it takes about 5% - 10% off the engine life however they are good for 250000 plus if driven carefully and as I have done 5.5k in a year it doesnt seem like I am going to reach that target soon!

[wozza]

Petrols dont remap the same as a diesel because your diesel engine has that nice little turbo bolted to it. Something we dont have well not until next year when the new turbo petrol engines get dropped in the C4 lineup.

 

And angeltuning wanted you to send them the ECU?

 

Ok thats odd normally they come to you and load 1 map on it then adjust it a bit while your on the road testing it. They can not do a remap if you send them an ecu they are just loading a different map on to the ecu.

[sammys hdi vts]

wozza here is the bit from the email

 

t really depends on what ECU you have on your car as to what we can do. A

lot of the newer 2.0HDi have Seimens ECU's which we can only do in the

workshop in Scotland (i.e. you will have to send the ECU to us). If it has

the Bosch ECU, we may be able to reprogram it in Croydon, its likely to be

EDC16, the same as the 1.6 and 1.4 HDi's if it is Bosch - which we do (and

we run a 1.4 as well). We have extensive experience of the HDi's engines,

and extensive experience of the EDC16 ECU's - but not the combination on the

C4. Having said that though, the ECU side of it is only the communications

side, the actual mapping is the key element obviously and that's the

important bit!

[wozza]

Did you not go have a look to see which you have? Should actually say somewhere on it or there will be differences between them physically so you should be able to tell.

 

I know they remap my engine and gave me a figure of £280 to come to manchester and do it for me on my drive but mines the 1.6 petrol engine. Which would only take it to around 125bhp and sub 10's 0-60

 

Then again accordng to a lot of people the 1.6 TU engines usually make more power than is stated anyway.

[sammys hdi vts]

no havent looked yet, really busy at work as Im a teacher and its end of term time, off on holiday for two weeks then I will try and sort something out for the summer months. Angel is a good 400 miles away vs celtic which are more like 150 miles as they are in cornwall i think

[wozza]

Angel tunings main office is based in yorkshire. Funny they said send it to scotland. And with a name like Celtic tuning I would have thought you know scottish / irish location.

 

On angeltunings website they list the 2.0 HDI as a mobile remap but the 2.0i petrol as a lab remap.

[hertsnminds]

What does the ESP do with all the extra power? Do you need it turned off to make the most of the power, does it just reign it in when switched on?

 

 

Ian

Black 55 VTR+

[wozza]

shouldnt really make any difference and turning it off now you might notice you can get off the line quicker anyway. Try it. esp is only supposed to work when your losing traction on 1 wheel round a bend etc.

 

With the remap you could get around a 35bhp increase and a nice increase with torque on the 1.6 diesel. so should be able to have similar power to the 2.0 petrols.

[sammys hdi vts]

Right went and had a look under the bonnet and I have the siemens ecu which means I am supposed to send it to Angel in scotland! cant see that happening, may contact chiptuning uk and see if I can pop in to them on my way up to the lake district later this month

damn

[wozza]

Bit of a shame really :/ Wonder if other companies will have problems as well as its not really a true remap if you have to send the cars ecu to someone a remap shoudl be designed for that car solely since every engine is slightly different so responds differently to tuning.

[sammys hdi vts]

Bad news for any 2.0 hdi owners wanting to do tune their car. basically can't be done- YET! Had the guy from celtic tuning over today, (Wozza I had an interesting conversation with him about angel tuning!), couldn't get his laptop to connect up to the ecu. Only way he could have done it was direct to the ecu but that meant removing the whole unit and Citroen has built a tamper proof cage around the ecu so it would have been obvious at the next service and my warranty would have evaporated on the spot. He is going to get some new kit in a couple of months so will let me know then if it can be done. P.s. Anyone thinking about it its expensive on the insurance!!!! Had a quote for £616 fully comp with parents, 24year old 3 yrs no claims clean licence for the car bog standard. went up to £920 with the chip and that was £100 cheaper than the next cheapest quote, went up to £1800 in some places or unwilling to quote. Interesting to find out that effectively the quote is the same for a chipped 25% increase diesel as the 180bhp petrol. Power not the chip increases the cost. (pps diesel is a group 45/90 ish and the petrol 73/90 for the insurance companies!)

[wozza]

How exactly did you say it was chipped to the companies?

 

See a few people i know it went up £20 on there insurance for it apparently if you explain it gives better fuel economy and make that a thing they dont look at it so badly depends who is doing it though.

 

And did you say it was a chip or remap? As some companies penalise big time for chipping but dont penalise as much for remapping even though its basically the same thing.

[sammys hdi vts]

said it was a modification, they asked if it inceased power I said yes, they said by what what percentage, they then have some tick boxes on their screen, up to 10%, 11-25%, 26% to 50% etc. so a 138bhp to 180bhp is about 25%. and I got hit, like I said there was a £5 difference between a £180bhp diesel and a 180bhp petrol. I like to play it safe Wozza, dont want to find the need to claim then get told I'm uninsured due to withheld modifications!

[lee_marshuk]

@sammy...

 

Just out of interest, what was your conversation with these guys about Angel Tuning like?

[wozza]

Wouldnt mind knowing as well cause most of the people over on the fiatforum (i own a fiat too) prefer angel over celtic. celtic put up higher figures but angel say they could map them to higher figures but usually say its not good for the clutch etc in doing so they map them to get more drivability out of it so they say not raw power which is why some of the maps barely do anything power wise but get rid of flat spots in the engine and as a result nearly everyone over there says they get better mpg after the remap. with more power etc.

[Z3M Roadster]

http://www.chippeduk.com/

 

try these chaps. A number of people have used them on the Z3 forum. The norm seems to be around a 25bhp increase on a 2.8 and less as the engine size decreases. They offer rolling maps where someone will go out with you and map the car while you drive, this generates the most bhp increase.

 

I'd be impressed if anyone manages to get more than 20bhp increase on a c4 even on a diesel.

 

In response to the 300bhp 330d BMW, Chipped UK managed 236bhp up from 184bhp. I would think 300bhp is unlikely.

[wozza]

20bhp from a diesel is piss easy mate. Most of the people offering maps rather than a stick on tuning box will see 35+ on a lot of diesel engines. Been told i can expect at least 12bhp from my 1.6 petrol. Thing is depending on the car and the states of tune of the engine to begin with maps might not always get that much. The 1.6 TU petrol engine is very very tuneable theres a few of them on the other side of 300bhp and when stuck in a 106gti etc are stupidly quick.

 

However some petrol engines are so highly tuned to begin with you see very little gains. Look at the VAG TDI engines though reguarly you see the 130bhp lump remapped to over 180bhp. and the 150 goes over 200 most of the time as well. With many on the golf and seat forums easy able to prove that with RR graphs.

 

Best way to think about it with remaps is

 

10% ish for N/A petrol

30 - 35% Petrol Turbo

40%+ Turbo Diesel.

 

Those are rough estimates but usually hold true.

 

Its the turbo that gives the massive increase though and the way diesels work. the 1.6 diesel lump from psa will map to over 13bhp without a problem.

 

The petrol will go to around 125 with a remap.

 

Fiats 115bhp JTD ump maps to over 155bhp and i have seen before and after runs on the rollers with that. And the car is still going fine now 3 years later.

[sammys hdi vts]

sorry about the delay still in the lake district, lovely up here! Celtic told me that angel tuning had very basic kit in comparison. They both had a handheld unit that connects direct to the ecu but celtic then had a laptop and another unit as well. the celtic tuning lad was running a modded fiat diesel, normally 115bhp and it was running at 170bhp sounded smooth, the guy, sam, said he did 10000 miles a month, not a typo! and he had no probs. doesnt matter what company you go with cos no one has the equipment to do the 2.0lt hdi yet. Still wouldnt mind a 180bhp diesel, dont forget that you can test drive the car and tell the remapper to change the settings to suit your requirements. Hope this changes your mind.

[wozza]

angel offer a 170bhp stilo. they say they can map it straight to 170 but they prefer to map it after its had a new manifold put on it so they do a 155bhp remap instead.

 

And most of the companies all have the same kit. You literally buy the kit you need for certain cars so laptop box etc is needed for all of them. Sure if you asked the angel guys about it they would explain to you in detail. They also map the car while your driving it if you want so you can get a proper remap and not an off the shelf kind of thing.

 

Like most company's there going to try make themselves look the best really its not the equipment that determines the result its whos mapping the car that determines the best results.