C3 Air-con Problems

[raveydavey]

Hi - I wonder if anyone can advise me?

 

I've got a 2003(03) C3 HDi Desire and I'm having problems with the air-con. Basically it has stopped working!

It had a repair to the air-con under warranty about 18 months ago (due to a cracked pipe, so I was told).

Obviously now the car is out of warranty and the air-con has packed up again. The switch lights up but the compressor doesn't click in and the air isn't cooled.

 

The dealer immediately said Citroen state that the air-con should be regassed every 18-24 months and that is what I need, but I find that hard to believe. It's a sealed system and the gas shouldn't just "vanish" after a set period of time, surely? I had a Nissan before the C3 and the a/c never needed touching and a mate has just sold his 8-year old 406 with the a/c working (and never having being touched in the 8 years he's owned it). The a/c system is the same (in principle) as a fridge - and you don't have your fridge regassed every 2 years, do you?

 

It looks to me like a design fault - the ventilation (especially to the front screen) is poor at best and without the a/c I'm having to run round with the window open to stop the car fogging up.

 

Any help would be appreciated as the car is booked in on Tuesday for £60's worth of gas before the dealer will consider anything else! I can see a large bill looming here...

[stimulator]

Q:It had a repair to the air-con under warranty about 18 months ago (due to a cracked pipe, so I was told).

Obviously now the car is out of warranty and the air-con has packed up again. The switch lights up but the compressor doesn't click in and the air isn't cooled.

 

A: As you say if the compressor doesn't run then it will not cool. reason for not running could again be a cracked pipe, naturally this would allow the gas to escape in an instant. When that happens, a safety circuit prevent engagement o the compressor. You had a cracked pipe before so maybe again. If you have maybe Citroen would look at a ggod will payment, BUT try a different dealer first and see what they diagnose.

 

Q:The dealer immediately said Citroen state that the air-con should be regassed every 18-24 months and that is what I need, but I find that hard to believe. It's a sealed system and the gas shouldn't just "vanish" after a set period of time, surely?

 

This sounds like a cop out statement. My 2yr advisory note arrived for my C3 yesterday. On it says, you may like to have the aircon serviced, if you are having problems with cooling a regas may cure. Cost £105. My aircon is running correctly so I won't be having that done and if i did I'd go to Renault (Rubbish) who will do it for £55. In my C3 the Aircon is automatic type and runs 365 days of the year, which according to the experts prevents it from possible failure. hence the phase use it or loose it. Yes it's sealed but read on in the next para for more gen

 

Q: The a/c system is the same (in principle) as a fridge - and you don't have your fridge regassed every 2 years, do you?

 

The car aircon uses a mechanical compressor, as you know this is driven by the fan belt. As the compressor rotates it requires seals to ensure no gas/liquid leaks out. If the system is left off for long periods the seals can go hard and leak, the refridgerant contains a lubricant for the seals. Also it mounted in a moving vehicle that is subjected to vibration and shocks from road conditions.

Your fridge uses an electric compressor which is inside the black tank in the base, the pipes are all silver soldered and the charge pipe is crimped shut, a fridge is static and runs all the time.

 

So your best plan of action would be to find an auto aircon agent in your yellow pages, he will be able to tell if the gas had leaked by fitting his charge kit to the system and looking at the gauges. It is also possible that your engine cooling fan is not coming on, this has to run all the time the a/c is ON to cool the condenser which is co-located with the car rad. if the fan doesn't run then the system will over pressure and shut down. Hope this helps.

[iannez]

if your getting it re-gassed ask them to add dye so if it is leaking it can be easily found. i have found sometimes when you carry out a leak test with a ac machine it passes but still leaks after it is gassed up. the reason for this is the leak check is done under vacum and this can pull seals tight into there seats and no leak will be present then when you add pressure to the system it pushes the seals away from there seats causing it to leak again so dye is the sure fire way of getting to the bottom of a leak if thats what it is.

[raveydavey]

Thanks for your advice.

 

In answer to one point, the a/c is used everyday so that shouldn't be an issue.

 

You're also right to mention that part of the check should be the re-gassing machine should pull a vacuum on the system as part of the process - obviously if there is a leak there won't be a vacuum. I presume at this point the re-gas will be abandoned while they find the leak, but as always I'd better point it out when I drop the car off.... ;)

 

The dealer has been pretty good with other faults, so we will have to see how we go but I will be approaching Citroen for a "goodwill" gesture given the age of the car and the relatively recent warranty work.

[raveydavey]

Righty-oh, the fault has been diagnosed as a cracked air con pipe (again).

 

Total cost of repairs, including "air con recharge and service" is a whopping £284.06 :(

 

I've spoken to Citroen UK who advised me to have the dealer submit a goodwill claim. Apparently this will take a day or so to be considered.

 

Parts are on order and the car is booked back in to be fixed on Friday, so I'm hoping Citroen come up trumps before then.

 

The plan is / was to replace the C3 next year when it hits 4 years old (I had my eye on either a C3 HDI 16v Exclusive or C4 HDi VTR+). How the air con fault is resolved will play a large part in the decision on the replacement though.

 

And as if I hadn't had enough good news this week, the heated rear window has packed up now... :lol:

[flitwick]

Ah thats a new rear windscreen job well it was in my c3 i intend to keep hold of my c3 for a few years yet so am extending the warranty just in case something else goes wrong :huh:

[iannez]

make sure you read the small print as extended warrenty does not have the same cover as new car warrenty.

[citroeneddie]

I thought the extended warranty was pretty well in parallel with new car warranty though.

[raveydavey]

Right-oh!

 

Air con fixed.

 

Citroen initially refused a goodwill claim, stating it was a different part that had failed.

 

Much running around by me using contacts the general public wouldn't have access to discovered that whilst the part number was slightly different, the part was the same one that had failed previously - it had just been superceded. That to me indicates that they are aware of an issue and have altered the part accordingly. So were they misleading me, lying to me or was it a genuine oversight? I guess we'll never know, but if I was an ordinary member of the public I'd never have found out.

 

Anyways MUCH discussion with Citroen followed with them finally agreeing to pay for the part but I'd have to pay for the labour. Still, it halved the bill so thats a result (of sorts).

 

Not impressed with Citroen customer service and it has cast serious doubts over me buying another one. If they think this level of service is acceptable then they're having a laugh - it's not acceptable as a C3 owner, but if they're hoping to take on the likes of Audi and BMW with the C6 they don't have a hope in hell.

 

As predicted the heater rear window now requires replacement as the connector has broken off. £190 from Autoglass fitted. So thats even less impressive on a car just out of warranty. Seems it's another common fault too.

 

Finally, the dealer broke the plastic engine cover when doing the air-con. They denied it point blank, but oddly they had glued it back together without informing me (I only noticed when topping up the screenwash and it wasn't broken last time I was looking in the engine bay).

 

So thats the last time I use them.

 

Can anyone recommend a decent independant specialist in West Yorkshire? Preferably Leeds or Halifax?