2003 2L Hdi Non Starter Kindof Advice Please

[Jambo1uk]

Hi all newbie here

basically I have the chance of the above a 2003 2 litre hdi dispatch and a spare one.

the main vehicle will run if you bump start it, it will turn on the key but not start. 

the other one is a spares van.

I need a van. 

what would you all say - go for it, leave it,or what price wise.

I think it's cheap enough but I have never worked on a van or a citroen before.

please advise anything that will help

 

thanks

Jamie

 

 

edited by moderator so easier to read

[Citroendispatch11]

You need to add some comas etc I can almost work out what your saying

[paul.h]

Welcome to the forum.

 

I have edited your post so it is easier to understand.

 

Is the main van not starting due to a flat battery ? You should check its voltage, should be about 12.7 volts before the engine is started and about 14.2 volts once running. If there is a fuel filter priming bulb, you could try squeezing this a few times before trying to start the engine in case the fuel is draining back due to an air leak in the fuel supply.

 

If the battery is not the problem then you could be in for a big bill to sort it. It may need a diagnostic check at a Citroen dealer or other garage with the correct diagnostic equipment to find out what is wrong.

 

Personally, unless being given the van or not having to pay for it unless it is fixed, I would walk away and look elsewhere.

[Jambo1uk]

He is dropping the vans at mine and if I can't fix it he will take them back.

 

What manual (haynes) will help me please I can't seem to find one for the van,

 

Also the diagnostic scanner things do the £20~£40 quid ones work on the vans and are they any use?

if someone can give me a list of where to start and what to look for that would be great hopefully the vans will be with me in a couple of days thanks Jamie.

[paul.h]

For a workshop manual you need the Citroen service box which comes on 3 dvds to install on your computer. These can be bought through ebay and include the parts diagrams and wiring diagrams.

 

A low cost code reader may not work since OBD compliance on diesels was not required until 2004. Unless the engine management light is on when the engine is running, one of these would not help anyway since to do a full diagnostic check will need the Citroen Lexia tool and Chinese copies of these are available for less than £100 to install on a lap top, again through ebay. Have a look at this topic http://www.citroen-owners-club.co.uk/citroen/topic/23278-lexia-diagbox-pp2000-topics-1822016/

 

First checks for not starting though are as noted above - the battery voltage since if the engine does not turn over fast enough it will not start. If the battery is good but it turns over slowly then the wiring to the starter motor and engine earth cable. If the wiring is good then the starter motor. If it turns over quickly then start with fuel checks - first using the priming bulb if there is one.

[Citroendispatch11]

Main vehicle , bump start? Will it start with easy start? These have problems with pumps sucking in air on start up , diesel leaks a few moments more so in cold

[Citroendispatch11]

 

There is a pump repair kit available online somewhere

[paul.h]

There is some info here on fixing the hp diesel pump http://www.citroen-owners-club.co.uk/citroen/topic/9041-c5-22-hdi-h-p-diesel-pump-leak-fix/

[Jambo1uk]

OK here I am again vans are with me now I have dropped the tank cleaned it out put it back flushed the fuel lines and replaced the fuel filter.

 

It turns over but won't fire if I use easy start it kind of fires untill you stop turning the key I have then pulled the pipes from the injectors and only the far right as you look at it had fuel came out 3 dry and one with approx 30mm (in baby food jars advise please

 

Ps sorry I suck at grammar but you know that

[coastline taxis]

Sound like a fuel issue but without diagnostic tools its all going to be trial and error. Might be worth paying for a mobil diagnostic to come and plug you in. If you do tell him you want a screenshot in live data while cranking the engine and also a list of codes. then post them on here

[Jambo1uk]

Quick reply after doing the leak test (by turning it over and by turning key to position 2) the far right injector still fills an amount of fluid into the jar so I swapped it for the injector next to it and it still came out of no 1 injector that was in the no 2 position if that makes sense am I doing something wrong here?

 

I have had diagnostics done there were 7 codes I will post tommorrow they could be from the dawn of time I have no idea they were wiped and it still won't start and no codes have came back diagnostics was done with delphi software

[Jambo1uk]

Codes were

 

P1614 power supply sensor circuit short to battery

 

P0604 computer analogue/digital converter fault

 

P0121 accelerator pedal signal 1 short to earth or positive

P0121 as above signal 2

 

P0190 fuel pressure sensor circuit sensor feed fault

 

P0235 turbo pressure signal short to earth or positive

 

P1108 fan unit high speed circuit open or short to earth

 

 

That's all the codes that were on it

[coastline taxis]

the only code there that could stop it starting is the fuel pressure sensor. But it only guess work at this stage.  Codes wont help any vehicle that wont start it has to be live data as that will tell you the reason why.  you need to get it put on live data and post the results

[Jambo1uk]

Hi again hopefully going to try bump starting it tomorrow what I want to know is this

 

I know I have 2 good injectors the other 2 I am unsure of first is there a way I can check and second as it won't start I tried to do a leakoff test cracking it and key position 2 on both of these the far right injector dumps fuel only this one ever time is this normal or does it mean anything?

[Jambo1uk]

Had guy come out and he checked timing belt thinks it may have jumped a tooth as it's slack been quoted £44 + vat for the kit do you think it would be this not starting it and is there any way of checking?

[coastline taxis]

if you have a leak off kit then use the pita tubes to see if the diesel is getting to the injectors.as you dont need the engine running with the tubes. before you buy a timing belt kit use live data and look for cam/crank synchranisation if it says yes then your timing is ok.  this is how live data saves you money

[Jambo1uk]

I don't have a leak off kit but there is fuel getting to the injectors I have a clear pipe from filter to pump and on all the spill pipes so I know it's getting to them and when the local mechanic guy was here yesterday he pulled back the cover and you could move the belt in with the 10mm spanner so it would need changing anyway I guess

[coastline taxis]

if its betwen the pump and the camshaft then there is always a bit play on the belts  there on the hdi,s. Also you might have diesel at the injectors but if its not at a minimum of 260 bar then it will never fire up.  so if it turns out to be the  the high pressure pump at fault then youl have to change the belt again to put a new pump on

[Jambo1uk]

As I look from infront of the van it's the belt on the right undoing closest bolt on the casing I can push down between the teeth on the belt on the spare van it don't move when doing this I'm sure I read somewhere if I removed the red plug sensor it would "see about 300-400 bar " as a default across the common rail I don't know how true this is as I have never worked on these is there any way to test the hp pump?

[coastline taxis]

If you can twist a the belt more that 90 degress the its slack. Removing anyplug will only result in one of the following  the engine will stop or it will go into limp mode and restrict the revs.   to check the pressure on the pump  in the 1st instence is checked by once again live data.   they say all roads lead to rome. well on a non start all roads lead to live data

[Jambo1uk]

Thanks for all the help and advise as soon as I have any news I'll pop back and update thanks again :-)

[Jambo1uk]

Timing belt replaced all lines up on pins as should be still won't fire can anyone say what the bits are to get it going minimum rpm (cranking speed boost pressure etc all I have to test is delphi diagnostic so far it reads

Engine speed 160 rpm

Air mass 182mg per stroke

Fuel pressure measured 289 bar

Overboost pressure measured 965 millibar

Target Overboost pressure 1246 millibar

 

Any ideas?

[paul.h]

I am not sure but I may have read that about 300 rpm is needed to start but this useful link suggests at least 150 rpm http://www.knowyourparts.com/technical-articles/diesel-start-diagnosis/ .

 

The fuel pressure seems ok and earlier coastline had said 260 bar is needed so low fuel pressure is probably not the fault.

[Jambo1uk]

Tried a new battery off my main car rpm was the same so it's not the battery so I guess starter then what's the Overboost pressure is that the rail pressure I presume not getting the 1246 if it's low cranking speed? Hopefully someone can advise a bit :-/

[Jambo1uk]

Tried 2 different starters today one span at 120-160 the other 160 rpm same boost pressures there or there abouts so head scratching time dam it