Road Pricing Response Ban

[Safety Engineer]

Well Tony Blair has tried to ignore the first No to Road Pricing petition despite the nearly 2 million signatures.

 

Under the rules of the petition website the creator of the petition is allowed two 300 word response e-mails to the the signatories, in another display of contempt for the public the originator of this petition has not been allowed his two responses, yet Tony Blair has sent all signatories the HMG response at 1200 words.

 

In answer to this there is a new petition: Road Pricing Petition Mark 2

[xavtia]

On Sky News this morning Tony Blair was quoted as saying "To introduce the road pricing plan would be kamikaze politics"

[Safety Engineer]

Which is probably why he is going to get Gordon Brown to implement it...

 

His e-mail response says something very different, and given the huge amounts of revenue that HMG make from the motorist, they cannot afford to let road pricing slip, it is too good a scheme to fleece the motorist with.

 

HMG doesn't want people to stop driving or give up cars, it wants to maximise sustainable revenue from the current (and future) levels of traffic.

 

This weeks Private Eye has a very good breakdown of road pricing in it's article 'Road Rage' and having worke for TfL I would be very surprised if this is going to just quietly die.

[Stuey]

if they get rid of road tax and drop the about 50% of the tax on fuel then it may work but the chances of that happening are pretty slim...

[hertsnminds]

Current car owner taxes include...

 

VAT on purchase price of car

Vehicle excise duty (car tax)

Tax on insurance premium

Tax on fuel

VAT on all parts and servicing

VAT on parking charges

 

I am sure there are a few more hidden taxes. If they remove ALL of the above then I might be inclined to agree with pay as you go charges but I think I pay enough at the moment.

 

Ian

Black 55 VTR+

[Rich_Eason]

You'd probably have to pay VAT on the charge to install the "black box" as well....

 

Is there VAT applied to MOT charges?

[Stuey]

thats another thing...we have to pay for the box...lets be realistic for a mo, are the police really going to arrest nearly 2 million people if we refuse to have the box fitted??

[Rich_Eason]

Owning a Citroen we do at least have one saving grace.

 

Once the black box has been fitted pull out the fuse and when you are asked why the milage increased but the car "apparently" remained in the garage you can blaim it on an inherrant electrical fault.

[hertsnminds]

Once the black box has been fitted pull out the fuse and when you are asked why the milage increased but the car "apparently" remained in the garage you can blaim it on an inherrant electrical fault.

 

I can see so many ways people will try to get around the technology. You can by chips and remaps for engine management so it wouldn't be long before you could get some sort of device or software patch to do things to the toll box in the car.

 

If a car passes a toll box sensor and the sensor gets no signal from the car it would have to take a photo to get the number plate and prove where it was at a certain time. This would just lead to more number plate theft.

 

And who would be checking car odometers against toll box readings, not your local dealer as they would need access to the governments database for the toll box info and then you would get the lawyers discussing human rights and data protection acts.

 

Like the man said...kamikaze politics.

 

Ian

Black 55 VTR+

[billynibbles]

thats another thing...we have to pay for the box...lets be realistic for a mo, are the police really going to arrest nearly 2 million people if we refuse to have the box fitted??

 

This is precisely why it would be so much simpler to do away with VED, and slap it all on petrol. 'Road pricing' by the back door, and all HMG have to do is collect more Duty in return for scrapping the tax disk - sorry Swansea

 

The 'tax disc' could then be proof of insurance instead, like a Canadian licence plate, making it very easy for the plod to nick the uninsured. The MOT and insurance should be made interdependant as when buying VED at the moment.

 

They could work it to be 'taxation neutral' to Mr Average with 2.3 kids and a 1.6 petrol saloon doing 10,000 miles a year - this would stop all that 'this hits at families' stuff.

 

How does this constitute road pricing?

 

Well, for one thing if the newly raised exhorbitant price of petrol makes people consider WHETHER to use to their car, WHEN to use their car and WHERE to use their car, then the main aims (or so the Govt reckon) of road pricing are met. Heaven forbid - some people might even consider getting a more economical car instead of something that 'befits their position in life' - company car schemes have a lot to answer for over the years! With a 40% increase in traffic forecast by 2025, we HAVE to DO something - and I don't think building more roads is the answer.

 

OK, we'll get the country folk immediately bleating about HAVING to use their cars because there's no public transport, and they've a point, but bear in mind that they're getting much better mpg, and provided they go into town, say to Tescos or wherever, they can't use that 'having to pay through the nose for petrol' argument.

 

Maybe there's scope here under the re-evaluation project for calculating council tax, for giving them a massive rebate for the lack of bus/train services - after all, you can't eat a nice view.

[Welshguy]

thats another thing...we have to pay for the box...lets be realistic for a mo, are the police really going to arrest nearly 2 million people if we refuse to have the box fitted??

 

2 Millon Suspended Sentences and instead hefty fines - a different type of Tax !!! :) :(

[wozza]

They dont have the man power to sort all the paper work.

 

And road pricing is fine if the public transport was good enough to actually use. But on my side of Manchester its crap. The tram is a 40 minute walk away and when its cold and pissing down with rain the last thing you want to do is walk 40 minutes to get on the tram.

 

Buses are hopeless there supposed to be 10 minutes or better. Had to use them the last couple weeks while I have been going out. Shortest time I waited was 40 minutes. Longest was over an hour.

 

Its not good enough if they want us to use public transport make it more reliable instead of whacking all these costs on the motorists.

[Safety Engineer]

As someone who does at 20-60k a year driving a year, I honestly believe that we need to do something about congestion. But at present the bulk of road tax goes into general gvt funds to be spent balancing the books, NHS, schools, war in Iraq etc. If it were spent on providing a good public transport system then great.

 

Here is an example of the idiocy and lack of thought on alternatives:

 

I live in Chelsmford Essex, it has a station that goes into Liverpool Street station so the obvious thing to do would be to hop on the train for a meeting at spitalfields.

 

It's actually quicker and cheaper (using cost of fuel, parking and train fare) to drive down the A12 to J28 of the M25 round to J27 come off, go down the A127, park at Upminster catch train to Fenchurch Street, then catch the tube round to Liverpool Street.

 

if we are going to get people out of cars, we need to provide cheap, reliable and practical alternatives, road pricing, limiting new build houses to only one car parking space will not do it.

 

What it does provide is an oppurtunity for vehicle tracking (thin end of the wedge for ID systems, and helps maximise the potential revenue form the motorist).

 

As for the Kamikaze politcs comment, don't believe it for a moment, Paul Eddington the author of the report is now saying that he only advocated road pricing in certain 'congestion hotspots' another Labour idea, get the public wound up about a big tax hike, then they won't scream (some will actually be relieved) when a small tax hike comes in, but at the end of the day it's still a tax hike.

 

Me cynical?? I was involved in a contract that actually would have compromised safety to cause congestion in our capital, exactly the congestion being used to justify the congestion charge and road pricing...

[Rich_Eason]

I just dont see what planet they are all on. They wish to promote congestion reducing schemes so why do they permit, Bath as an example, reduce the cost of the Main car parks but increased the cost of the Park and Ride? £3:20 all day in a car park or £2+ per person?

 

Its cheaper for two of you or more to take the car into the city center park the car than it is for two to get the bus in on the Park and Ride. Where is the incentive in that?

 

For Bristol congestion to seriously be reduced the cost of public transprt MUST be reduced. Train services are very limited due to the few local commuting stations and the locality of the Main stations in relation to the City. At day rates for me and my girlfreind to catch the bus home is only 2quid cheaper than a cab.

 

Something SIGNIFICANT must be done with public transport and sticking black boxes in cars is not the solution. People are lazy and will pay for convinience. Make the public transport system convinient and cheap people will use it.

 

Having lived in both Birmingham and Bristol, for those who think Birmingham Public Transport is poor try spending a few weeks commuting in Bristol....

 

Hence why I walk to work :(

[Welshguy]

Personally I believe this proposed tax has nothing to do with congestion, and is simply about collecting more tax to plug holes in the government's budget. Seriously we have to be the most inefficient country ever...the government collects huges amounts of tax yet wastes it.

[Safety Engineer]

Golden Goose or as New Labour puts it Goldon Motorist...

[C4VTS]

I am very annoyed at all the potholes in the road which never get fixed, or some council worker fills it in with gravel and has to be done again every week. :P

 

We pay all this money to the Government and local councils but we get nothing back in return.

Our taxes just seem to go into a blackhole.

 

This country is in a worse state now than it has ever been in before. Also NHS is in the red, how can that happen with all the extra NI contributions we have been making from our wages!

[Safety Engineer]

This country is in a worse state now than it has ever been in before. Also NHS is in the red, how can that happen with all the extra NI contributions we have been making from our wages!

 

Those three magic letters - PFI, bloody good earner if you are a PFI stakeholder raking in the cost over-runs but not so hot for the taxpayer, have yet to hear of a PFI project coming in on budget.