Benny Posted June 4, 2007 Posted June 4, 2007 Hey guys, proud owner of a C4 VTS Coupe' but not so satisfied with the way it makes use of 180BHP. Was just wondering if it was possible to find some of the accessories on the current C4 WRC car like tail lights, spoilers, induction...anything! I've currently had the car lowered (because of its kinda tall stance), installed 12" 1000W Sub with amp to the system and other little things with lights but i just wanted more to sset mine apart from the others on the road. If anyone can help i'd love to hear from them :) Thanks -Oh yeah and i live in Australia (but willing to import pars)...just to make things harder Quote
wozza Posted June 4, 2007 Posted June 4, 2007 You live in a hot climate, its a heavy car and the 180hp is right up at 7000rpm with not much low down torque unfortunately its not gonna be that quick. Induction etc might give minor gains but its already a fairly highly tuned 2.0 you will get very little from it. Unless you want to spend a serious amount of cash on it you wont get much out of it. Quote
VTSowner Posted June 4, 2007 Posted June 4, 2007 wozza said: You live in a hot climate, its a heavy car and the 180hp is right up at 7000rpm with not much low down torque unfortunately its not gonna be that quick. Induction etc might give minor gains but its already a fairly highly tuned 2.0 you will get very little from it. Unless you want to spend a serious amount of cash on it you wont get much out of it. theres loads you can do. New intercooler, straight through exhaust, CDA air filter...then a remap. New turbo put in....engine conversion if you have the money the possibilities are endless..... but why not just buy a lotus exige? Quote
Mike5483 Posted June 4, 2007 Posted June 4, 2007 VTSowner said: theres loads you can do. New intercooler, straight through exhaust, CDA air filter...then a remap. New turbo put in....engine conversion if you have the money the possibilities are endless..... but why not just buy a lotus exige? All well and good if you've got a diesel, but his is petrol, so he cant really do much of that. If you look at sites that tune Peugeot 206 GTi's, 306GTI's etc, you may find some bits, as they have the same engine. You will get very little from your engine without serious work, cause as Wozza says, its already tuned. Nos might be the easiest way, but you have to think of internals, pistons may need uprating so they dont melt. The fact is, the rally car has the same engine, but everything is uprated to take the extra power. It will be difficult and expensive. Quote
wozza Posted June 4, 2007 Posted June 4, 2007 VTSowner said: theres loads you can do. New intercooler, straight through exhaust, CDA air filter...then a remap. New turbo put in....engine conversion if you have the money the possibilities are endless..... but why not just buy a lotus exige? CDA will give marginal gains maybe 1 or 2bhp at most. Remap might gain 5 - 10bhp. Straight through would not give much either maybe another couple of horses. Theres a big difference between an N/A petrol engine and something with a Turbo. The only real way to make decent power from that engine is to go a bit more mental. Turbo conversion or cams, piggy back ecu or throttle bodies or a combination. Maybe head work etc. As I said it costs a fair bit of cash. Can spend £3000 and just about have it over 200bhp if you stayed N/A. Quote
VTSowner Posted June 4, 2007 Posted June 4, 2007 wozza said: CDA will give marginal gains maybe 1 or 2bhp at most. Remap might gain 5 - 10bhp. Straight through would not give much either maybe another couple of horses. Theres a big difference between an N/A petrol engine and something with a Turbo. The only real way to make decent power from that engine is to go a bit more mental. Turbo conversion or cams, piggy back ecu or throttle bodies or a combination. Maybe head work etc. As I said it costs a fair bit of cash. Can spend £3000 and just about have it over 200bhp if you stayed N/A. like mike says uprating parts is best bet. a remap and cda could increase by around 18+ bhp Quote
wozza Posted June 5, 2007 Posted June 5, 2007 Not a chance in hell on that engine. Its already in such a high state of tune and unlike your diesel which has a turbo which is why it makes decent power with a remap it just doesn't happen on high horsepower n/a engines. For that to get a decent real 200+bhp and be proven your talking at least £3000 if not more. To get it over 200bhp your gonna need to go 1 of 2 routes forced induction. IE. Turbo or supercharger. Or gonna require cams head work piggy back ecu etc. The 180 engine like other similar engines costs a lot of money to tune. The Clio182 is exactly the same. Which is a totally different engine. Yet to get them to around 200bhp tuning companies start there prices at £2000. If you want 220 - 240bhp your gonna be spending the best part of £5000. Tuning N/A engines is not cheap. Quote
Benny Posted June 5, 2007 Author Posted June 5, 2007 VTSowner said: New intercooler, straight through exhaust, CDA air filter...then a remap. New turbo put in....engine conversion if you have the money the possibilities are endless..... Mines not the diesel (i value my driving experience over fuel economy lol) plus i've looked everywhere on the net and can't find anything for the car. Quote
idlerobbo Posted June 5, 2007 Posted June 5, 2007 Benny said: Mines not the diesel (i value my driving experience over fuel economy lol) Its pretty marginal between the diesel 2.0 and petreol 2.0 isnt it!? Quote
wozza Posted June 5, 2007 Posted June 5, 2007 Diesel is 138bhp petrol is 180bhp. Thats a fairly big difference. Diesel makes its power before 5000rpm petrol doesn't make its power till 7000rpm. Quote
idlerobbo Posted June 5, 2007 Posted June 5, 2007 but after a remap it can be anywhere up to 30+ bhp onto the 138 right? Doesn't put it too much behind I guess. Quote
wozza Posted June 5, 2007 Posted June 5, 2007 Gains around 35bhp with remap so 170ish bhp and a lot more torque. But the handling isnt as good, the car is heavier so slower still, Power band isnt as long. Quote
VTSowner Posted June 5, 2007 Posted June 5, 2007 wozza said: Gains around 35bhp with remap so 170ish bhp and a lot more torque. But the handling isnt as good, the car is heavier so slower still, Power band isnt as long. yeah wozza is correct. my car is around 170 bhp. although first gear is very slow, 2 right up to 6th has alot of power. i change up just after 4000rpm before the turbo lag comes in. my car has been lowered, it handles very well. ive never driven the petrol but i know my diesel is fast and grips the road well. its 0-60 in about 9 seconds and will do about an extra 20mpg. deffo the better option over the petrol.....if you an deal with the diesel note - like it :D PS surely if you wanted good driving experience go buy an exige or something, its faster than your c4 and will do better mpg as well. Quote
wozza Posted June 6, 2007 Posted June 6, 2007 Turbo lag is not something you get up at the higher rev range. Its what happens when the turbo has not spooled up yet. Yours spools up around 1500rpm so very little lag. And if you have had it remapped chances are its still making power after that 4000rpm mark. Without getting technical the best time to shift isn't always after its stated dropping off sometimes holding it longer will result in you changing up and being in more power / torque thus accelerating quicker than if you changed as soon as it dropped off. Using my car as an example I know peak power is hit at 5800rpm or there abouts. But I dont change up till around 6500rpm because it pulls better in the next gear if I leave it a little longer. And the VTS180 manages the sprint to 60 a second quicker. Which might not sound much but it is a fair bit when you actually see the distance. MPG means nothing to me hence the cars im looking at. Quote
iannez Posted June 6, 2007 Posted June 6, 2007 think what wozza said in his first post is most probs the best advice. you live in a very hot climate so you will most probs be better of fitting some sort of cold air induction kit with a nice big fat supply pipe just behind the grill. the more cold air you can get into it the better. and remember the more you mod the engine the hotter it will run which could cause a problem. why dont you just buy a holden. there realy cheap over there and so is fuel. Quote
Goon Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 This is apparentlt the latest thing. Don't know how good it would be, nor indeed what the effect would be on the engine but it does look fun! http://www.electricsupercharger.com/ Quote
Z3M Roadster Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 Goon said: This is apparentlt the latest thing. Don't know how good it would be, nor indeed what the effect would be on the engine but it does look fun! http://www.electricsupercharger.com/ Looks crap to me, just forced air induction. Hardly a supercharger! Quote
Benny Posted June 14, 2007 Author Posted June 14, 2007 iannez said: with a nice big fat supply pipe just behind the grill. the more cold air you can get into it the better. yeah i thought of doing a custom job but there is no space to suck air from the grill! i thought of making a fibre glass port that sucks air from the front in between the 2 chevrons in the badge --------^-------- --------^-------- <---- like this but citroen have blocked it up! Its different on the rally car tho. And as for your suggestion for a holden: maybe you'd choose that car because there arent any in your country but in Aus every second 18 yr old has one with their 'performance upgrades' except they handle like a boat. Thats why i bought the C4Thanks mate Quote
wozza Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 Goon said: This is apparentlt the latest thing. Don't know how good it would be, nor indeed what the effect would be on the engine but it does look fun! http://www.electricsupercharger.com/ They are a load of rubbish do you honestly think a PC fan is gonna feed enough air into an engine for it to make a difference...Utter crap.If anything its gonna end up restricting the intake. Stay well clear. Quote
Goon Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 wozza said: They are a load of rubbish do you honestly think a PC fan is gonna feed enough air into an engine for it to make a difference...Utter crap.If anything its gonna end up restricting the intake. Stay well clear. Hey, don't shoot the messenger! :P I'm happy with the performance of mine. I think 180 BHP is more than ample. Quote
Z3M Roadster Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 I agree, 180bhp for a front wheel drive car is ample. I recently drove an Astra VXR with over 300bhp, nothing but torque steer...pointless Quote
wozza Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 The VXR isn't a particularly good car though when it comes to handling and upping the power. I know the megane R26 is supposed to be brilliant to drive even with a remap etc but the LSD and the suspension setup helps there. Personally though id rather have a rear wheel drive or AWD car when power gets to those levels. Have been looking at a couple cars recently had a look at a rather nice Saleen Mustang. But too expensive for what you get. Quote
Goon Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 Of course, the other problem is weight. The C4 is lovely but it is a bit of a porker. To put it into perspective, I have a 1981 Porsche 924 Turbo phase 2. It only has 177 BHP but weighs as much as a Rizla packet. It regularly clocks 6.5 - 7.0 secs 0- 60. The weight distribution helps too (50:50 - The gearbox is mounted in the rear transaxle). However, it scares me witless, is a complete and utter thug and it'll smack you one if you get it out of line. What a lot of people don't realise is that a lot of upping BHP is an often expensive waste of time. True, more power can make the car faster but its more about the power to weight ratio and where the power is fed into the curve. Far more important is the torque curve (Check out the new Peugeot 207 GTI: Only 175 BHP but a massive 260Nm of torque kicking in at 1,600rpm! 0-60 in the same time as the N/A Clio 197) but again, if the ratios in the gearbox aren't matched properly, then this can often be a pointless exercise too. The VX220 is a great example of stripping to the absolute necessities. It doesn't need monstrous power to be frighteningly fast and both the gearbox and weight distribution are perfectly matched. tyhe:rolleyes: Quote
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