Xsara Died On Me!

[quavey]

I have a 1999 T Reg Citroen Xsara 2.0 hdi (an early pre-facelift with the 90bhp engine) Its done about 115k

 

Driving back home tonight my xsara, bless its little cotton socks (it must know its up for sale in a week!) decided it would be fun to die on me.

 

60mph ish suddenly lost all power so i dropped gently down the box into 4th then to 3rd desperate to get to the hard shoulder foolishly pushed the clutch out and the engine stopped. (so no brakes or power steering!)

I did notice as it was dieing that the Engine Auto Diagnostic light came on - which according to my 1999 manual states is an ignition or fuel injection issue however this manual doesnt actually list the HDI model (go figure!)

 

 

So i thought id leave it for a few moments and try it again, turned over fine but no fuel... So couple of listens and i realised that the fuel pump wasnt running. So no fuel, not sure if its the signal to the pump or the pump has actually failed?

 

Now what is odd is that when i got it home (towed) i tried it and it did actually start and run for 2 seconds (was up hill on the motorway and downhill on the drive).

 

So im fairly sure the car is fine - just a failed fuel pump.

 

Does anyone have any other ideas? Or have i got it totally wrong?

[Guest Colin Hunter]

Hi There Quavey.

 

The exact same thing happened to me on my 110 HDi Xantia, shortly after I bought it at 3YO. It had been coughing a bit, hesitating and "hiccing" if you get my drift and was due to go back in under warranty. One day it just stopped, but re-started right away although the management light stayed on. I wasn't sure what was wrong, and as I wasn't far from the garage, I phoned them and they recovered the car. They ran some diagnostic tests and they pointed to the fuel pump in the tank.

 

Apparently the management ststem requires a certain pressure to be present at the inlet side of the main pressure pump before the engine will even try to run. If the pressure is too low the engine will stop. The "Hiccing" I had been having was the pressure fluctuating up and down past the cut off point, and momentarily cutting the engine.

 

The garage replaced the pump under warranty and all was well for the next 6 years until I finally sold the car. The pump (on the Xantia at least) is mounted in the tank on the drivers side and can be accessed from inside the car under the rear seat. It's quite simple to change, two pipes and an elecrical connector to remove before undoing the large clamp ring. The pump/level sender assembly then just lifts out. You should be able to get one from a breakers, but if you have to go to citroen they're not cheap. I did see one for sale on ebay not so long ago.

 

Cheers Hope this helps. ;)

[quavey]

Cool. Im glad its not an isolated case, i have had a look around and it seems to be a very common thing. Now I have removed the plate over the fuel pump, and also the electrical connector.

Im just a bit concerned about removing the pipes to the fuel pump, are these going to be full of diesel? If so whats best to do hear? Drain it into a jar and dispose? Or try and keep the pipes full, by clamping them or whatever?

Also can i just pull these off? Or is there a method of removal?

 

I assume that the car will need to have diesel manually pumped through it if i drain these hoses?

 

I have read that giving the pump a sharp "tap" will bring it back to life, so im going to try this for now.

Although i did price a pump up about £148 + vat found one on the gsl website for about £65 including VAT. Do these prices sound about right? I have a friend who works for a citroen dealer so i can get some discount of the 148, but probably not more than 20%

 

I have discovered that this is a June 99 car, would make it about the oldest HDI xsara around i think? LOL

[Jonno]

I assume that the car will need to have diesel manually pumped through it if i drain these hoses?

 

Should be self priming when the ignition is turned on.

[Billy_the_taz]

Seems about right, However befor purchasing a new pump I think you should check the fuel shutoff selenoid as on a few models this supply is actualy wired to the fuel through the fuel pump circuit ie the power to the pump is on when the stop valve is open. I know it may seem strange and I am aware that this is no longer applied but still exists on earlymodels

[quavey]

Seems about right, However befor purchasing a new pump I think you should check the fuel shutoff selenoid as on a few models this supply is actualy wired to the fuel through the fuel pump circuit ie the power to the pump is on when the stop valve is open. I know it may seem strange and I am aware that this is no longer applied but still exists on earlymodels

 

Oh right where abouts is this shutoff solenoid? That sounds interesting...

 

What is odd is that if i leave it for a few hours it will start and run for a second or two. I can only assume its pulling some fuel through on its own. (no sound at all from the lifter pump though)

[quavey]

we have an update on this 99% positive its a failed pump.

 

Got the pump out today, all looked okay so i tested the power supply (a bit heath robinson but with a bulb and some wire i can see the time delay nicely when im on my own... So weve got the 5 or 7 seconds or so of power there before the engine is started for pre-pressurised fuel.

 

had a look around the pump and tested power direct to the motor... sucess it turned over didnt sound brilliant but thought okay its a start.

Tested power from the top of the pump again sucess so i thought right we'll drop it back in and see if it will pump some diesel.

 

No such luck,ran for acouple of seconds and i started the car 5 seconds of run time and stalled, lack of fuel.

 

So i tihnk weak motor, unable to actually pump fuel... but enough life left to turn its self over in air... Of to GSF i think

 

£83 or so delivered, i cant say fairer than that! about half of the citroen price, even with a staff discount!

[Guest Colin Hunter]

Sounds good. HDis don't have a stop solenoid as such. Switching off just cuts power to the ECU and thereby the injectors which stop injecting, then the engine stops. Simple! The tank mounted pump is the usual villain, especially if the tank has been allowed to run low, so increasing the chance of stirring up crap on the bottom of the tank. All too easy in these days of high fuel prices. Might be an idea to try to clean the tank out as well as possible while you have the pump out.

 

Cheers. B)

[quavey]

no can do really, i had filled it up to the brim the other day, so there was £60 of shells finest in there... ive no where to put it really and i dont fancy binning it all.

 

Since the car was on a slight angle about a litre or so pissed out of the top of the tank when i took the pump out. Didnt think about that!

 

Handy drain hole under there!

 

I'll be honest, i hate putting fuel in cars so ive always let all my vehicles run to the light. Never had anything run out of fuel before though. However, what does concern me is just how crap the level measuring system is on the xsara.... no wonder the gauge is the most inaccurate thing known to man!

[Guest Colin Hunter]

I never pay much attention to fuel gauges either. I usually work out what MPG I'm getting by a brim/brim when I first get a car, and then reset the trip meter when I fill or partially fill. Say (for example) 45 mpg average (10 miles/litre) means that if you stick in 20 litres you'll have 200 miles before you're back to the same level. Works for me anyway, and I've NEVER run dry since my first car in 1975! That was a Vauxhall Viva HB and the fuel gauge was stuck on 1/4 when the bugger stopped. Never trusted gauges since!

 

Cheers. Happy motoring! B)