Help, Let Me Out!

[billynibbles]

I guess this is me bowing out from the Citroen forum. I never expected my C4 to be the world's most reliable car, but with what the computer world would call a mean time between failures of 2,000 miles, my 2.0HDi VTS coupe has been the most troublesome car I've had since I used to buy bangers.

 

Having bought it with 14,000 miles on the clock (it was pre-owned by Citroen and fully loaded with goodies), I've only added 18,000 more myself.

 

During that time, and thank God I lashed out on an extra 4th year warranty, I've built up a really nice first name terms relationship with the service desk at Citroen west London.

 

On the day I picked up the car, the service light came on as I left the dealership. This was found to be water ingress to the lane warning sensors. Still never mind, because I also got them to recharge the dead aircon and repair the long gouge to the passenger side sill which been kept from me as the car had always been parked up against a wall every time I visited.

 

A month or two later, whilst negotiating the Derby ring road on the start of a holiday in the Peak District, it started acting rough, with a hint of overheating. This was found to be a faulty cooling fan control which was only allowing the fan to operate at its slowest speed.

 

Two months on, I could not get the boot open. This needed a new solenoid to be fitted.

 

Then began a sequence of events that were to take about a year to fix. The car would not run smoothly on low throttle settings, ruling out the use of cruise control for one. It was also a pig to drive in traffic unless you lead booted it every time, which in heavy traffic is a crass waste of time and fuel.

 

Several attempts to even recreate the problem were unsuccessful, despite assurances that it had been road tested overnight, and that it now had all the latest software patches. At this point, I seemed to be the only person who thought that a leaky fuel injector was important.

 

Then came the recall, to rectify damp ingress to the ABS ECU. Bear in mind that THEY chose the date for this, so you can imagine my dismay when they tell me after two days that they are waiting for the part! Over a week later we are still waiting, but since the front bumper is off, I cannot really have it back. Then I am told that owing to a breakdown of the spares computer, the part needs ordering again. Still at least this time, they took my pleas to do something about the leaky injector seriously, so the (almost) one month off the road was (sort of) worth it.

 

In fact, it then seemed to settle into a period of reliable middle age, being a joy to drive until I noticed the mess on the drive caused by a few drips of engine oil every time it gets turned off.

 

This is really where I am at the moment. I have brought forward the Yr 4 service, and MOT, whilst they also fix the leak under what there is left of the warranty. Oh yes, I nearly forgot. On the way there, the Pollution Fault warning appeared and put the car into limp-home mode.

 

Is it any wonder that I am thinking of replacing it earlier than usual? Guess what - it won't be a Citroen although it has at least converted me to the joys of diesel motoring!

 

p.s. If anyone wants an unused VTS/VTR+ 17 inch alloy or even the roof bars and/or cycle rack attachment, PM me. We could agree a price that reflects the fact that I have not had the hassle of e-bay. I am in the Hounslow area if you're able to pick up.

[wozza]

Sorry to hear of your problems.

 

I am starting to notice a lot of these problems are 2.0 HDI issues which are cropping up. Same on the C4Owners site as well. We also have a 2.0 HDI EGS Grand Picasso so hoping we don't get these issues.

 

Also checked a few Ford sites out and reports of similar issues. with the engine being shared with so many marques the problems come up more often.

 

So just keep that in mind if you look for a Ford, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Jaguar, Volvo and probably a few more....the engine is the same. As are all the diesels virtually. Hence same common problems.

 

The 1.6 HDI seems to be more reliable.

 

I have just swapped my petrol C4 VTR+ for another Petrol VTS had one of the guys at citroen check it out before hand never had a single piece of warranty work done on it. And was in perfect condition. So has not stopped me buying it. Although the petrol VTS's seem to be quite low on things that go wrong with the exhaust being the main weak link it seems and bloody expensive to replace. So not looking forward to that when it goes.

[billynibbles]

Thanks for that Wozza - it does seem that maybe they 'saw me coming' in the first place, given the teething troubles from day one. Thinking back, they did seem in an indecent hurry to sell it by 31st March, and the salesman was leaving that day!

 

I'm now faced with the dilemma of either changing it, especially in view of the shared engines issue, which narrows down the choice probably to VAG group, or Vauxhall, which I've not really paid much attention to, or I face the horrendous prospect of taking out a 5th year warranty at £489 and say a prayer every time I make a long trip which doesn't involve coming home on the same day.

 

Just about to test drive a Leon TDi FR, currently on 3-years interest free credit, so I'll know which way I'm going to swing after that. There's also the prospect of a 2.2 turbo diesel Honda Civic I guess. I'll certainly be picking a dealership I can walk to next time!

[wozza]

Driven both the cars you are looking at. If you are looking at the sport hatch astra...I hope you are not tall. As I was rather uncomfortable in them head touching roof and I am not exactly tall at 5'11". That was with the seat as low as it would go.

 

The Seats are lovely to drive. Interiors are shocking on the new ones though feel rather cheap the dash especially and bloody ugly inside.

 

However the seats, gear change etc feels nice as does the general experience of driving it. They are also fairly quick and easy to make quicker. However if you regularly carry passengers missus etc they might not like it quite so much. The ride quality is...harsh. You will feel pretty much everything. And while the car is very capable it just feels a bit numb to drive. Even the 240hp Cupra never really seemed to feel like it was a serious hot hatch apart from when you looked at the speedo.

 

It just does everything so well that it is somewhat boring to drive.

 

Just depends what you are after in a car.

[billynibbles]

Pity about the head room in the Astra Sport Hatch, I'm 6'1" so it'll be worse for me - I was looking forward to seeing what their 1.9 cdti 150bhp engine was like, but there's little point if I can't sit in it, and 5-door Astras just don't look the part.

 

I see what you mean about the Leon's interior, and I'm umming and ahing about the ride. It's not really suited to the majority of my urban driving.

 

What I could really do with is a C4 VTS HDi that I could rely on..............

 

Just had it serviced and the oil leak fixed (oil pump/vacuum pump changed under warranty) and it drives like a dream - maybe that £489 extra year's warranty isn't such a bad idea - after all it's only two payments on a new car.

[wozza]

I still say go and take them for a drive. The FR though is setup to be very stiff. Might not be a big issue to you.

 

I still very nearly bought a Leon myself wasn't a fan of the interior but the 300hp from a remap was rather tempting.

 

As I said I didn't fit in the Astra and know some others who have had trouble but I don't know if that was due to me only trying the VXR with the different seats I never actually tried the normal cars out.

 

Oddly though I thought the new Corsa felt more roomy up front in the cabin than the Astra.

[billynibbles]

I still say go and take them for a drive. The FR though is setup to be very stiff. Might not be a big issue to you.

 

I still very nearly bought a Leon myself wasn't a fan of the interior but the 300hp from a remap was rather tempting.

 

As I said I didn't fit in the Astra and know some others who have had trouble but I don't know if that was due to me only trying the VXR with the different seats I never actually tried the normal cars out.

 

Oddly though I thought the new Corsa felt more roomy up front in the cabin than the Astra.

 

I also considered a Corsa, if only for the integrated cycle rack! In the end I've gone for one of the 140bhp TDi Leons, not the FR, which was, for my local roads hopelessly rough riding after a two hour test drive. Even now, with higher profile tyres and a different suspension set up, the Stylance version's ride is quite sporty, similar in fact to the C4 VTS diesel. I also found the diesel FR's power delivery very difficult to get right without making the passenger's life a misery. The FR knicknacks didn't impress either - the gear knob felt hollow like a plastic bottle top. Funnily enough, despite the oddles of torque on tap, the FR diesel didn't like to go below 45 mph in 6th before labouring - the Citroen was quite happy down to almost 35mph.

[wozza]

Hope you are happy with it mate and it is trouble free for you.

 

I did say the FR was stiff. They do drive really nicely if you are having fun. But for everyday if you commute on rough roads it is going to get annoying.

 

The diesel engines on the VAG cars are known as being a bit rougher than the French HDI's. Just one of those things. But if you want a remap etc then the power increases are a fair bit more on the VAG engines. I know REVO's map takes the 140 up to around 185hp and nearly 300ft lbs of torque.

 

Some of the seat garages are also quite happy to get the remapping done for you. I asked about it when I was looking at the Cupra's. What their position was on remapping, I was told "While we won't do it we can get it booked in up the road for you." Also said they would still honour the warranty as well.

 

Heard that some dealers are now offering it in house as well. So if you fancy some more grunt ask them.

[billynibbles]

Hope you are happy with it mate and it is trouble free for you.

 

I did say the FR was stiff. They do drive really nicely if you are having fun. But for everyday if you commute on rough roads it is going to get annoying.

 

The diesel engines on the VAG cars are known as being a bit rougher than the French HDI's. Just one of those things. But if you want a remap etc then the power increases are a fair bit more on the VAG engines. I know REVO's map takes the 140 up to around 185hp and nearly 300ft lbs of torque.

 

Some of the seat garages are also quite happy to get the remapping done for you. I asked about it when I was looking at the Cupra's. What their position was on remapping, I was told "While we won't do it we can get it booked in up the road for you." Also said they would still honour the warranty as well.

 

Heard that some dealers are now offering it in house as well. So if you fancy some more grunt ask them.

 

Interesting - it does indeed look like a modest remap could bring the engine up to or even past 'FR levels' with the added advantage that it doesn't 'remap' the suspension to FR spec too!