Ronin

Well I managed it but it was a chew on simply because it is fairly cramped to get your hands in through the inspection hole. here is a run down for anyone who needs to do this in the future. It's basically the same proceedure for all C5 petrol models. You need two parts from the main dealer (don't worry, they aren't expensive) 1. "o" ring gasket seal for fuel tank (blue in colour)£7.36 inc vat 2. Plastic circlip for the main fuel pressure hose (you can't re-use this item as you have to physically break it up in order to remove the hose)£2.24 inc vat MAKE SURE YOU HAVE LOW FUEL IN THE TANK FIRST!(it stops the housing from rising back up) remove the inspection cover (underneath the rear bench seat) disconnect the main multiplug that connects to the white housing( usually yellow) then try to start the engine a couple of times. This helps to depressurise the fuel line. disconnect the negative battery terminal. Disconnect the two other multi plugs on either side of the housing (blue) make sure you move the cables out of the way of the housing assembly but make sure they dont drop down the side of the fuel tank. Cover main housing multiplug terminals with tape( you'll find out why later). Push the fuel line onto the its connecter as far as it will go while using a thin flatblade screw driver to lift the white plastic circlip as far as it will come out from the hose end (this is where you need three hands) Now use some snips and cut through the white circlip only!!!. Use a set of needle nose pliers to remove the remaining circlip bits. Now get an old rag and place it over the hose end and gently tease the hose from the housing. Be prepared for some fuel under pressure to remain in the system to splash back out at you (thus the tape over the terminals!!!). Now all that remains is to remove the large plastic black ring that secures the housing in place. Use a large flat blade screwdriver and a hammer against the plastic raised lugs around the outside of the securing ring. Don't go crazy, just lightly tap away until it becomes easy to remove by hand. gently lift up the housing (be mindful of which direction the red arrow in pointing) and you will see the old "o" ring that need replacing. The reverse proceedure is pretty straight forward but some handy tips are: Use some petroleum jelly around the top edge of the housing to help the black retaining ring move around a lot smoother than when it came off Have a second pair of hands to push down on the pump housing and keep it down while you start to screw the black ring on. Start to tap it back into position until the arrows line up (however.... keep pushing down on the housing to make sure it is seated properly and not out of position. There should be no give at all . If there is, then the black ring can be tapped around again one full turn. Make sure that the fuel line is securely fitted and a new circlip is in place. Connect it all up... don't forget about the negative terminal on the battery ...Lol I did! Start the car a couple of times to make sure the fuel is getting through and keep the inspection cover open , get you helper to sit in the back while you reverse, brake and accelerate forward vigarously to check for leakage. If its ok.... replace the inspection coverand have a coffee and pat yourself on the back... JOB DONE!

Don't worry too much about the rear brake pad/caliper issue. Once you've managed to see what's what it is pretty straight forward and you'll soon be adept at keeping them in good condition even as a precautionary measure... It could be worse, it could be vauxhall rear drums or discs! I lost count the amount of times I had to strip them down and replace the slides/ seals! As 72dudes has suggested, the hdi 110 2.0 ltr d is a relatively uncomplicated diesel in comparison to the 2.2ltr and can take a lot of abuse. I would also avoid the HPI (I still cant understand why they made it). If you are not concerned with the extra torque that a 2.0ltr petrol gives, another alternative is the 1.8 16valve. There isn't really that much difference in performance apart from having to drop down a gear for overtaking more often. As far as ownership of C5's, well I'm fairly new to them but all I can say we now have 4 C5's in the family of various specs and performance now so they must be ok and we all love them. We can't all be mad! lol.

My Brother in law has just bought a C5 1.8 16v 01 plate virtually identical to mine at a car auction (oh dear)!!!! Told him not to but he liked mine and got the old auction fever. He has noticed a smell of petrol and came over for advice. I checked the fuel lines and removed the undertrays to get a good look and everything was fine. I also looked around the fuel tank and found nothing until I lifted up the rear seat bench and removed the black plastic seal that hides the top of the fuel tank. Needless to say this was the culprit. It is sloshing out of this seal. Now before I go and remove the housing and try to re-seat it (looks like it hasn't been screwed on properly as the white assembly can be pushed up an down) I just want to know is there a knack, a risk or anything I should know before tackling it. I dont want to cause more problems as the the car seems to be running fine otherwise. I have had experience with the xantia fuel tank so i'm not afraid to give it a go... Some advice would go a long way and is much appreciated guys... Especially considering that Haynes haven't brought out a manual for the C5 yet ! Oh and can you buy a seperate "o" ring seal for the top of the fuel tank or does it come as part of a kit? I seem to remember being able to get a new one for a xantia once as it was a "replace once removed" item. Thanks in advance.

Unless you have driven one m8, I'm afraid you would never get why citroen owners like the suspension. Its something that the most expensive cars in the world can't offer. It offers the ability of a gliding effect across all road surfaces where other cars shake your fillings out and fantastic road holding at the same time (particularly on the H3+ suspension). All other cars offer a comprise of one or the other (comfort or sporty) but end up failing at both! A mate of mine offered to drive us to the match the other day in his brand new VW Passat tdi. We got 500 yards and all of us "4 passengers" commented on how harsh the ride was. One friend has a spinal problem so I asked my mate "driver" to turn round. We took my 2001 C5 instead and no complaints from any of them, just compliments on how smooth and comfortable my old car really is! Unfortunately the hydroactive suspension does have it's faults though if not looked after and needs to be regularly checked to keep it in tip, top condition. Spheres wear out and/or need re-charging but this works out about the same service period as regular shock absorbers/springs. All citroens fitted with the magic carpet suspension need to be adjusted highest and lowest settings to keep the pump, spheres and other components free and in good working order. When a car is stuck in "normal" ride height for long periods of time, thats when problems start. A weekly 5 minute check of raising and lowering the car can add many, many months and thousands of miles to the shelf life of the hydroactive system. It may look wierd to your neighbours when they see your car do a "dance like a sedentry pimp mobile" but well worth doing even if its just to see the puzzled look on their faces lol.

Iirc it was Mobil one 0w/50w they also recommended and a 16 vein, 1.5 ltr capacity oil cooler in front of the main radiator, and a oil change period of 6000 mile for that spec. I had a test drive of what they called the "Beastie Pug" when I was enquiring about a full TT conversion for my Pug 205 gti. It literally scared the crap out of me that an oil burner can out drag anything at the lights and overtake so quickly in 5th without so much as a complaint "trucks , buses etc were dispatched in a matter of a couple of seconds from pulling out to pulling back in. I mean, i'm used to turbo cars like scoobies etc. but this was a different beast altogether.. :blink:

I'm afraid I have to disagree here with this comment: "Increasing the boost pressure from standard (by ANY degree) will reduce turbo charger operating life." Boost pressure doesn't cause any kind of wear on the turbo itself. The turbo is a dual impellor device on a central shaft bearing hub and can spin quite freely up to and beyon 200,000 rpm (something that a diesel will not achieve even at maximum boost settings... Turbo technics ran a T2.5 turbo on a pug 406 td at 18psi which kicked out 220 bhp/ 265ftlbs torque quite reliably as a test bed "demo" for 100, 000 miles. The main cause of turbo failure is oil starvation which in turn is caused by blocked or clogged oil channels lubricating the main shaft and bearing. This is the symptom of heat soak which more often than not is due to stopping the engine too soon after hard driving and not giving the turbo a chance to wind down to idle speed (ever notice on a turbo driven car the gentle whine that eventually stops after you have turned the engine off? Thats the damage happening right there and given the amount of times we have all listened to that familiar sound it then becomes no surprise to have many turbo failures. A lot of owners blame boost pressure for premature turbo failure when its the actual fact that if the boost is increased, the more inclined we will be to drive the car harder thus the turbo revolutions will be used more often and then turn off immediately without thinking of winding it down first. Most turbo manufacturers recommend a "wind down period" of 5 minutes but 2 minutes is often sufficient. A good quality oil is vital for uprated boost pressure and can prevent the clogging Although I have to agree that because we tend to drive harder with an uprated boost i.e. dropping a gear to get the boost pressure up for overtaking etc. which puts undue pressure on the bearing and shaft that can lead to eventual failure. I also totally agree that other engine mechanicals should be uprated to take the extra boost in the first place and just adjusting the pressure is asking for trouble. A BRAKE UPGRADE IS A MUST! It is more down to lack of driver education than a mechanical device such as the turbo that is over engineered by design to take up these demands on its usage. Bare in mind that only a few type/ model number turbochargers are often used on many, many different cars and don't need any modification to them to run different boost pressures to suit everything from humble turbo deisels with mild boost to thunderous rally cars for the road with massive boost. The only difference is many applications are the actuator spring loads and of course the flanges.

I can shed some light on this subject a bit more. Many years ago I bought a brand new Vx Astra GTE 16v but went for a tyre/wheel upgrade from 195/55/ vr15 to 215/40/ zr 17 from new. They looked good but the ride was always a bit harsh and the car suffered from the dreaded torque steer a lot. When the car went in for serverice at the main dealers it came out and felt a lot better. then a week later I checked the tyre pressures (according to the door frame it was rated at 34psi) but my actual pressure was 28psi. So needless to say I pumped them up to the reccomended settings again. Over time I noticed the scrabbling effect returned along with the harsh rideand the tyres were scrubbing off on the outer edge. Second service came along and the same thing, low psi after the service so I called back into the main dealer and spoke in person to the tech who had worked on my car and asked him why? He told me about the - 10% rule that he used and why it was relevant. So I was a bit sceptical about this but he assured me that it was actually correct for my car and tyres. He said that a lot of vauxhall's suffer from the torque steer effect and customers often blame it on the gearbox, lsd suspension geometry or even the "too much power going through the front wheels excuse" when in actual fact it was all down to the tyre wall not having enough give due to the wheel beading and unusual offset they have... Reducing the pressure in accordance to the max psi rating gives the tyre just enough flex in the side wall but still gives the stability in straight line driving..... A miracle for vauxhall's I thought. So I reduced the pressures once again back to - 10% and low and behold the handling, comfort and fuel economy improved.... Still a bit sceptical at this point and expecting some unusual tyre wear on the outside edges and leaving me with a hefty bill. I kept with the advice and I was very surprised indeed to see it was even wear and I got 24,000 miles out of the front wheels (an achievment in itself on a GTE and especially the way I drove it. BTW I was getting about 2mpg more! I sold that car and since then I have noticed with other new cars that I have owned that the dealer technicians seem to vary up or down the tyre pressures but rarely stick to the reccomendations and it always seems strangely to be around the -10% mark. My C3 was a prime example although I did actually find that -12% of max psi suited my driving style. Now to my C5... My tyre max psi rating is 44 so - 4.4 @-10% =39 or 40 psi on 195/65/hr15 a full 10psi above the 2.1 bar (29psi) ... So now you will be thinking i'm crazy! Well, think about this for a moment...... We all know how good the the ride is in a C5 so comfort isn't an issue but bear in mind that the sidewall @65 is still quiet tall and will flex a lot less than set at the recommended psi = better cornering and grip.... Then there is less friction on the road surface = better mpg (so far about 2- 3) but braking should increase (not that I have noticed and I have made a few rapid stops) and so far no uneven tyre wear and I have had the car 4 month now. Should you all try it? Well thats totally up to you but think about the fact that all handling, economy issues have to start somewhere and can come from a simple matter as tyre pressures! I figure that I have saved in fuel alone with my old Xantia (God rest it's soul) about £180 after 12,000 so in effect I got the price of my tyres back in the space of a year! I leave it to you guys to ponder over the pro's and cons.

I had a similar problem on a pug 205 GTI many years ago now. I couldn't get a dipstick at the time as the car was too new for scrapped examples and the dealer was wanting a small fortune for a new one. So I was stuck basically until I got a cork from a wine bottle, pierced it onto the dipstick and trimmedand tapered it down to fit in the hole. I also made sure it wouldn't stick in the hole by glueing it on the dipstick.... Easy solutions are ofen the best. 5 years later I sold the car with the cork still in place with no trouble what so ever. The new owner just laughed at my simple solution and it broke the ice when I explained why.... Hope it helps.

My C5 does this a little bit too on very low speed (below 5mph) and full lock. I presume its because the suspension geometry is at such an extreme angle and doesnt affect the general road holding in any other way. I would suggest taking your car to a local tyre and exhaust specialist (not any of the big firms as they will sting you). A local firm with wheel laser alignment is your best solution (£25). They will check camber, castor, toe in & toe out as well as tracking. If something is wrong it will show up, trust me. A tip that improves general road holding, tyre wear and fuel economy that I have used over the years is to actually ignore the recommended tyre pressures (on the door frame). They are often out of date and dont take into account different weights of the car ( there is 300 kg difference between a full tank on a v6 compared to an empty tank on a 1.8). So in effect with 2 passengers etc it could be as much difference as 500 kg (one tyre pressure fits all? I don't think so!) I use a rule of thumb I call "-10%" .... Look on the side of the tyre for the maximum safe tyre pressure and reduce that amount by 10%. It's a good starting point and then over the weeks you can adjust 2psi at a time up or down to get the best feel for your driving style and economy. I found on my Alfa 156 2.5 v6 was having unusual tyre wear on the outside edge and centre even though I was setting it at 32psi for a single occupant etc. and checking it every week. I used the -10% rule which gave me 29psi and to my amazment the car was transformed in handling and fuel economy went up +2 mpg. Hope it helps

I hate that advert too with a passion ! "unmistakingly german" What an insult to a french car and its owners! I own a C5 now and this is what I think of them... A slight leak on the rear suspension of my old 210,000 mile xantia (the only thing to go wrong with it I might add) turned into a major burst on the way to get it fixed lol typical really (independant specialist is 25 miles from me) So I was forced into buying a new car. Anyway I just bought my first C5 1.8 16v lx hatchback on a "Y" plate in silver for £800!!!! What a car for the money, fsh and an ex company car with 169,000 miles on the clock but I can't believe it, it drives like a new car, looks new, so smooth and everything works! I had a look through all the service bills etc and found a bill for a new exhaust complete with Cat @ 140,000 for £385.00 +vat, Clutch at 152,000 miles for £376.50 + vat. Also the usual stuff like bushes, brakes, spheres over the years but the total (not including regular servicing/belts/tyres has come up to £1,640 for extra non service bits and labour.... Now how can anyone say that a BMW, Merc etc is more reliable than that after 169,000 miles and 9 yrs old. I guess the moral of the story is :- look after a C5 properly and it will look after you and more importantly your wallet! I'm just happy if I manage to get 18 months trouble free motoring out of my C5 then at least I can say £800 was a small amount of money very well spent for a lot of car. :)

Lol .....I was thinking the same thing KFK :blink: ...... Bets on it being a xantia ;)

"2nd, there is a weird rattling noise comming from the front of the car that can be heard when driving in 1st 2nd gear, like the sub frame is loose????? goes away in 3rd gear but i think it just gets drowned out with the engine and road noise. The guy i bought it off was advised by citroen that it was the aux belt tensioner that had been over tightened and snap although still present, citroen mechanic said that not to mind it and that it was ok to live with just the noise but i dont beleive this to be true!!!!! any ideas???" A "penny to a pinch of salt" it will be one of the front anti-roll bar drop links that are rattling. (they always go eventually and sound terrible as if the subframe or suspension is dropping off lol) There is no way of physically checking them for excessive play as they are under load all the time but the small top ball joint wears, thus causing the terrible rattle. look closely at the rubber joint seal on them , if its cracked or split it will be a sure sign. It's advisable to replace both at the same time and it's not difficult to do.....Trust me thats what it will be. :blink:

Well lets put it this way... I downloaded the first part. and the second part I had to wait about 30 minutes, so I went off and did something else. I came back to that link and downloaded the second part.... No problem... It isn't exactly "Rocket science" is it? At no time did I pay anything, join anything or do I intend to... I don't use a download manager what so ever and you certainly dont need to use one... I use Mozilla Firefox too which work absolutely fine. That's exactly why the complete instructions were posted for everyone to follow in the first place... Maybe if you actually do what is says by "waiting" the time it says you might get somewhere m8 Thats exactly why its free to download...you have to wait. If I could add files on this forum for you to download from here I would do it for you... but I can't.... Sorry Update .... been on the site and downloaded it again Both parts no problem, 15 minutes wait (which it stated clearly) until it would allow me to download second part... So it isn't the site or a SCAM!!!... it's the user... and maybe a little bit of impatience :rolleyes: Surely your not one of those people who keep clicking the internet explorer icon when it doesn't load immediately and wonder why you have ten windows open at once..then blame the PC lol

It could be a couple of things. The metal rod that runs under the centre line of the car is to adjust the hieght adjustment and relevent pumps etc, check the rod hasn't dropped off its links, also check the rear height pump lever( the rod connects to it) this can often sieze and is quite easy to free with penetrating fluid and patience. Try adjusting the ride height lever now.... if that still doesn't work.... You could try to de-pressurise the system by releasing the nut (one full turn only on the accumulator pump housing) "engine off and the car on axle stands/ ramps for safety" you will here a hiss, let the car settle for about 5-10 minutes. tighten up the nut again and re-start the engine. take it off the ramps/ axle stands Turn the steering from lock to lock a few times (expels any trapped air) and select the different height settings. keep an eye on the lhm fluid level. If that doesn't sort it out im sure KFK can give you some more advice on other ideas to try lol One thing to remember is that once you get the problem sorted, use the ride height adjuster once a week... It needs to be used to prevent these problems. ;)

There are some thinner rubber pipes at the top of the engine (to the left of the carb injection system. on one of them you will see what looks like a tyre dust cap (thats the bleed valve). remove the bleed cap and the filler cap and start the engine then slowly fill the header tank with coolant mixture (50% antifreeze coolant and 50% water) and keep checking and top it up it until the engine is properly warmed up... Then you will notice that the water dribbles out from the bleed valve... close it carefully without scalding yourself (rubber glove and a cloth helps). refit the filler cap and check the warning light and stop the engine...Your done and have a cup of tea and marvel at your excellent work :P

I'm curious here so just bare with me. Try turning the ignition on and wait 20 seconds (even though the heater plug light has gone out) then start it. let us what happens ok m8 Diesels work on compression and no spark as i'm sure you already know. This takes a lot of juice from the the electrical system to turn over. If your battery and alternator are not charging properly , it slows down the turning over of the engine and makes it difficult to start anyway. They need a constant turning speed to build the pressure up or it escapes from the exhaust system if it turns over to slow A good tyre and exhaust centre can do a free check the alt./battery for charging rate and condition. Glow plugs last between 50,000 to 70,000 miles and they aren't difficult to change. Even if one of them is on it's way out it could cause starting problems even when the engine is warmed up There are lots of multiplugs around this area, I would suggest getting a tin of electrical contact cleaner spray (maplins). Take each multi plug off one at a time and clean thoroughly and spray the contacts then connect them back up. The only other thing that I would check is Air / fueling issues, when was the fuel filter last changed? check for water from the filter housing drain plug and is the priming bulb spongy or hard? Check air filter hoses for splits and also the seals of the intercooler hoses (plastic pipes) from the turbo to see if they are loose. Give the linkages on the fuel pump a good spray with wd40, on the front side as you look at it from the engine(bosch pump) is a small linkage that is the fuel stop lever and can slowly sieze with dirt deposits especially when the engine bay is warm so make sure that it is able to return back to its original position.. try the simple things first m8 before sensors and expensive parts need changing.

hmmm certianly sounds like it. I was lucky lol, didn't have the immobiliser fitted so I can't really give you advice on it m8.. Have trawl though the forum regarding immobilser problems , it might shed some light on it. I would also check to see if any battery leads or earthing points are loose, especially on the starter motor.... It could be as simple as that which it often is with many other makes of car. ;)

Ahhh the famous SM... Some would say (the last of the true inovative citroens) It had many features way ahead of it's time that we take for granted in modern cars. It was powered by a maserati derived (Merak) 2.7litre v8 vee at 90 degrees to keep the profile down, It was 2.7ltr to keep it below the french engine tax laws which were extortionate for engines over that capacity.(3.0ltr for the US market It had electric everything! ...Power assisted steering, power brakes.... The works really Underbody venturi aerodynamics that would actually suck the car further down to the road surface over 50 mph. Citroen had a couple of Dasault aircraft wind tunnel engineers work with the design team to achieve the lowest drag factor possible using the teardrop shape... Now standard proceedure with all manufactureers but unheard of in 1969-1970 Directional inner headlamps that moved with the steering the outer ones stayed straight. self centering steering with only 2 turns lock to lock. rain sensitive wipers very light touch sensitive brake pedal (looked like a small mushroom) Optional carbon fibre wheels (yes carbon fibre)!!!! It was capable of acheiving 150+mph and 0-60 in under 8 seconds It was weel reknowned for the ride quality (obviously) but it was reported to feel no different at top speed than at 70 mph. Citroen dealers at the time had to take new SM owners on a 60 mile orientation drive so they could get used to the "two turn steering lock to lock" feature and the brakes after 5 out of the first 20 sold were damaged by hitting kerbs etc...lol. It was rumoured that Citroen only bought the troubled maserati company so that they could get there hands on the v8 expertise for this car. No one actualy knows what the "SM" stands for but the best guess was Série Maserati Unfortunately Citroen didn't make a profit on the SM and only sold just under 13,000 of them.

Hmmm thats a tricky one. I do know that there is a slight delay when pulling away after stopping on my car (imagine sitting at a junction on a slight incline to the rear of the car, my xantia doesn't roll back after taking my foot off the brake)...it doesn't roll back not right away anyway.... Saying that, my brakes don't feel as if they stick for a couple of seconds though, its free as soon as I start to pull away. It could be due to the hydraulic pressure slowly draining back to the lhm reservior. I don't know if citroen intended to make the brakes do that or not but it's a handy feature.lol Check your LHM fliud level with the ride height setting on highest, the engine running and turn the steering lock to lock a few times. this will expel any trapped air (which can cause a delay) and give you a true reading on the level bubble. I can't see it being a major problem at the moment but if the delay gets longer I would think about changing the accumulator sphere which helps the hydraulic pump do it's job a lot easier. ;)

Lol that's what I can't understand about manufacterer's own alloys... They are so damn heavy, yet if you buy aftermarket alloys (not the cheapest ones you can find lol) they are a hell of a lot lighter... go figure! ;) I just wonder what they actually make them out of and why lol :lol: :huh:

OOOOPHHH! Rather you than me m8! If you have an accident even if its not your fault and the car is deemed un-drivable, insurance assesors/ engineers will check the car and bang goes any chance of claiming plus six points on your licence... If it is your fault, you will end up loosing everything because the other driver's insurance company will take you to the cleaners...literally! Then you will find it near impossible to get any insurance firm to touch you. I'm not trying to scare you m8, just giving some advice because I have seen it happen to a friend of mine 18 yrs old and boy...did he regret it. He's 32 now and still paying for it! I'm just curious why the engine change? the 1.1 is 75bhp and the 1.4 gt is 85bhp. You could get more than that(about 20bhp) with a sports exhaust , airfilter, rolling road tune and bigger injector in the carb...and if you inform the insurance company , they usually just put an extra fee of £50 or so. Thats a hell of a lot cheaper than court fines, legal fees and compensation. I Just dont want to see you end up down that road of regretting it.

Yes and Yes If both are carb and not injection.... It's a hell of a lot easier If its injection its a nightmare... everything and I mean everything needs swapping over If its inj, to carb or vice versa... Forget it! ....Sell the 1.1 and buy a 1.4, it will work out cheaper and easier Then you have the insurance company to deal with and independant vehicle reports ! Expect £££ on your current premium Some instances its worth swapping cars and paying £100 more to save the hassle. ;)

If anything as long as the rolling circumference is the same, you should have better acceleration with larger alloys. Less tyre flex and usually a larger "footprint on the road surface give you better grip off the mark and alloys are usually 45-55% lighter than steel wheels. This in turn increases the torque usage or the driveshafts and gearbox. I remember doing rolling road tests in my friends workshop and for a daft laugh we did one with normal wheels and then alloys. I didn't believe him when he told me that it would increase bhp and torque figures at the wheels... But he was right by 3% extra on bhp and 5% on torque. Doesn't sound much does it? Think about 200+ bhp though and you get the idea. Then there is the decreased braking distance and obvious handling improvements. A lot of people neglect to think about what makes your car go faster and think automatically (engine mods) Its all to do with how you increase the power to weight ratio and how the power is used or put down on the road. The average engine loses about 20% of that power by the time it reaches the wheels due to mechanical drag of the gears, drive shafts and finally the wheels themselves. With that in mind you have to think "how do i decrese the amount i'm losing?" and not how much extra do I need first?. two main ways are : alloys and lightened flywheel I'll put this in a cost per power, point of view. 190bhp standard exhaust..... 197 bhp full performance exhaust £450 = (4bhp / 2lb ft torque at the wheels) or alloys 18" and tyres to match £600........= 5.7bhp and 9.5 lbft torque at the wheels... Do the math ;) Then buy both lol ;) A fact that might help is... the average F1 car can deliver up to 890 bhp... Magnesium alloys superlight gear assy. and carbon brakes mean that an F1 car can put 850 bhp on the road ! Thats a lot less than 20% loss on a road car !

Are the switches illuminated still? If so..... It's usually the switch connector blocks on the windows m8. They are made with a zinc kind of coating and this tarnishes with time, causing a bad connection(not enough current getting through). Check the service manual and remove the switch housings per instructions , clean the male and female terminals with a small wire brush and reconnect.... Also follow the wires to check other connectors and do the same. You may have to do this every 18 month or so If there's no illumination, its probably the fuse... Replace it even though it doesn't look blown ! (again, tarnished fuses can be a common problem and give you a wild goose chase thinking its something else) Failing that, it could be a break in the wire as it comes out of the door... A multi-meter will tell you if any voltage is getting through by pricking the wires with the the electrodes of the multi-meter and operating the switch. A handy tip ... When dealing with electrical problems, always look for the easiest and simplest solution and work your way from there. For the cost of a pack of blade fuses "about £2.00", replace all of them every couple of years.... You'd be amazed at how many electrical problems it cures and prevents. ;)

Here you go guys in pdf format (adobe reader opens it) http://pdftown.com/Citroen-Xantia-Service-Manual.html Downloads are free but you can only do one at a time and theres a wait time between consecutive downloads.... Hey it's cheaper than Halfords lol, so worth the wait..... Get both parts and save them to your desktop, open the first one and save to a new folder, the second one will go into the new folder automatically Enjoy :(