jonnie45

Thanks Paul I think maybe you are right I should send the ECU to someone for testing. The second hand car dealer and his mechanic mate with whom I have been wrestling for some time claim to have done this already but it could have been any old tinkerer so perhaps time to see if someone out there is a little better. Cheers Jon

Hi Apologies if this has already been asked - I did use the search facility but "ECU" is not allowed as it is too short a search term. Does anyone know what will and will not work if I take my ( 2005 1.6Hdi diesel C5 ) ECU out and swap in a used donor ECU of the same model? My ECU has issues ( long on going saga with second hand salesman and his mechanic mate ) progress on this issue is slow and difficult. I wondered what would happen if I sourced a used unit online and swapped over myself? Would just trying do damage or harm? I gather the immobilser electronics are not part of the ECU but perhaps the two systems "recognise" each other - would the immobiliser refuse to talk to a replacement ECU? The CD player security pamflet says no entry code is required on the actual CD player because the CD player recognises the car so I am guessing that it perhaps recognises the ECU and would reject a clone with a different electronic ID. Of course I would expect to have to go to someone who can plug into my donor ECU and probably reset some items, perhaps the mileage, elosys readings would need copying across. Anyone done a swap? Whats involved? Jon. Current ECU details: Runs fine for a while - connection issues suspected within the unit, spurious errors but always only after running for 30 mins or so ( suspect temperature affecting some hairline crack in a circuit board or similar ) it can put the car into safe mode and sometimes the car becomes completely unresponsive ( as if battery had been removed ) - several people who claim to know what they are doing have looked at it without any success. Always interested to hear suggestions but the problem has existed for a year so I am not hopeful that a simple bit of advice will solve the issues on this unit.

Hi I wondered if anyone can help. I have a 2005 1.6Hdi C5 diesel Yesterday and today the engine faded whilst I was driving, lights and dash stayed illuminated so no loss of electrics but engine faded not unlike when trying to jump start and the motion of the vehicle is driving the engine rather than the engine driving the car. Its cold here - day time temperatures of 0 deg C. Both times I had just left home so from a cold start. Both times the car started instantly when first turned on and re-started without complaint when I pulled in to the side of the road. Suspects? I don't know if the ECU controls power to the fuel pump but if it does then my ECU is a bit dicky, it seems to have an electrical connection issue - I get false errors now and then. This will be fixed soon ( ongoing situation between me, a second hand car salesman and his buddy mechanic and their electronics friend - too complex and frustrating to list here ). I am hoping its the low temperatures, I am in a rural area and I very much doubt my local fuel station will have even thought about winter fuels, they are independent and a rule unto themselves. I would be more confident that this was the problem except for the fact that the car starts first time when I go out in the morning and also RE-starts first time after the engine fades - I would have expected any kind of filter restriction to not show such a clean recovery. Just wondered if anyone had suggestions on my list of suspects or other ones I should be thinking about. Thanks Jon

Hi, yes thanks the sump is on my list - thats for the gasket info. I am speculatively eyeing up the oil filter unit since its now right in front on me and easy access, any idea whether this is a sensible and easy thing to add to my list. Of course I am already going to be changing the filter I mean cleaning out the whole unit with the cooling fins. As mentioned earlier I am not sure I have the confidence to start pulling the engine apart, on the other hand I am in a "nothing to lose" scenario and certainly pulling off items that are relatively easy seems worth it to me.

Thanks Paul, "lot less online" - I would always want to get it at the best price of course but at the same time since its 40 for the oil, maybe 400 for me to do the job myself and I am sure a 1000 for a dealer to do it - given that oil age/quality/cleanliness is at the heart of the issue it seems to be the cheapest but most important single item (plus filter). I must confess with previous cars when I was younger and less bothered had eyed up the cheap stuff in the supermarket but increasingly I am thinking that oil is the one bill we should be happy to pay for. I wonder if it would be useful/interesting to ask the diy experts on these forums to list parts and consumables according to the "payback factor" in other words a comparision of how cheap (easy) the item is but how expensive neglecting it can be. Presumably oil and filter would make it to the top five. Seriously it might make a good check list for novice self maintainers although I am sure that the experts on this forum already have that list burned deep into their consciousness and need no reminder.

Hi Paul I think there is indeed around 14K since last oil and filter change. I have just read an article elsewhere regards removing the sump as opposed to just draining it because dependent on design a reasonable amount of crud may remain due to the design the sump so I am adding a remove and clean sump to my list. I dont think I am brave enough to go inside the engine just yet but since I am now familiar with the turbo removal and all that goes with it I think I will opt for oil+filter change at the time of turbo replacement followed by a very premature follow up oil and filter after only few thousand miles . I am also thinking in terms of monitoring the turbo inlet and outlet hose/pipes by dismantle and inspection once or maybe even twice in the coming months - it took me a day to remove the particle filter, shroud and turbo the first time but this was mainly due to stuborn bolts and access problems which I resolved by bending a ring spanner - I am hoping I can get it down to a matter of hours for the planned inspection.

Paul, Coastline I am very grateful to you both, coastline's description of the 'oil bearing' is just what I needed to help the parts of the problem fit together iin my mind. I have only had the car one year, I am a very low mileager ( probably 7K) - light right foot - and the oil and filter were changed according to the service record in the year before I bought the car. Its seems to me that given the tiny diameter of the pressurised inlet port that similar gunk in the inlet would have surely resulted in blockage even with the oil being pumped, secondly the smoke showed no sign of abating suggesting fresh oil is coming in to burn and finally the turbo has not seized or failed catastrophically. It looks to me as if the unit is receiving adequate oil it just has a problem disposing of it hence (some of) it escapes through the bearing gap and ignites. If the turbo is not the victim of general engine gunk but rather the victim of its own private production of gunk then I am hoping that the quantities involved are smaller than would be expected from a poorly functioning engine and that the gunk has coalesced in the outlet but not made it much further. There is still the issue of why gunk in the first place, coastline has indicated driver habits and the heat soaking of the oil but my thought here is that an older turbo might produce more gunk, perhaps due to wear in those 'oil bearings' really this is all about the question "suppose I replace and clean whats to suggest it wont start all over again?" Taking this into account I am thinking along the lines now of a diy fit hopefully costing under 400 which I can live with. 1. fit a remanufactured turbo after first getting assurances regards tolerances in the 'oil bearing' area - I am relying (gambling?) on a remanufactured unit being less likely to produce the gunk than my old unit. 2. fit new inlet and outlet oil pipes following advice about the strainer in the inlet. 3. oil and filter change with a flush. 4. adjust driver habits I suppose if I am feeling really brave then the really sensible thing to do would be to do an inspection of the outlet pipe after say 5,000 miles and then check that the new oil outlet shows no signs of fouling. Thanks again Paul and Coastline I feel I am in with a chance of resolving this.I will post any useful findings during the coming work as these case histories are hopefully useful to others.

Hi Due to circumstances and also being self employed at home with a decent engineering (not automotive) workshop and increasing garage bills I would like to make our next second hand purchase one that is reasonably easy for a DIY'er to maintain. Currently trying to resolve C5 Hdi issues including turbo and after reading horror stories about turbos not to mention EGR, cat, filter problems, eolys and the rest of it I am thinking of going back to petrol and looking for a reliable model where I can fix must things apart from deep engine problems and clutches. I already have an engine crane ( lathes in the workshop weigh 700Kg plus - required when they need moving), ramps, trolley jack and stands. My wife has a petrol C3 - I have not looked much under the bonnet but there is not a whole lot in there which seems a good start, I would miss the comfort ride of the C5 but I want to feel back in control with cars. Any suggestions / second hand / petrol / somewhere in the 2005 £4K region and good fuel efficiency? Size of car and body style secondary at this stage. This time I want to buy a car around reliability and ease of fix, it it were not for my desire to have something efficient I would go and get and old beetle (ok probably more than £4k) and do it up :) Thanks muchly Jonnie

Hello An appeal for advice please. My C5 (II) HDi 1.6 with Garrett GT1544V turbo has had recent problems with smoke apparently from the hot side of the turbo although not 100% of exact location of smoke outlet sure since heat shield was on at the time, definitely not the clean air side. Given the age of my car (2005) and horror stories around the turbo I decided that I would at least do an investigative look before the bills start coming in. I have removed the turbo. The exhaust side and clean air side of the turbo (interior of ports) are as follows. Exhaust side, very fine soot but no gunk, not oily but dry - since the fault was smoking on the exhaust side then this may be recent and it may well be a result of the problem not the root cause. Clean air side, thin oil layer on inside but absolutely no gunk. The blades turn without resistance, it feels like a smooth bearing action, I am treating the blades very gently, nothing to suggest to me excessive wear on the bearings, when the engine last ran the turbo did not make any unhealthy sounds even with the inlet air port quickly and carefully taken off for a 2 second listen. All the flexible breather pipes that were removed as part of the turbo removal are clean aside from a thin film of oil on inner walls - no gunk. The bad news is on the oil return, pipe had sticky gunk in it. I don't have much information about the oil inlet pipe right now but the fact that the turbo has not seized and was burning oil suggests that oil was getting to it. What I am trying to weigh up now is what the likely level of clean out will be and whether I am up to it, I have seen suggestions of partial engine dismantle to remove gunk. Take the optimistic side and assume that I find only the oil return pipe is fouled with gunk, does this offer any hope that the clean up operation might be confined to a relatively small number of areas? My logic might be faulty but I am assuming here that some kind of seal failure and excess oil burning might have caused the gunk build up in the return oil that has not found its way entirely around the system. Is there any optimism to be had if it turns out that the gunk is not present in the oil inlet so that only the outlet is fouled. The outlet was badly fouled lets say 90% but the crud could be removed with a tooth pick it was not hard but more like sticky flexible plastic oily crud. Any suggestions or opinions welcome, its an older car 2005, I am trying to avoid pro bills at least until I have localised and understood the problem, I dont want an open ended garage bills as then it would be better to junk the car. If the gunk issue can be resolved easily by a DIY'er then I would probably refit the new turbo and pipes myself since I have already managed the dismantle. Thanks Jonnie Quick Tip - needed flat ring spanner for turbo bolts,on all of mine the ring cantered to 10 degrees or so. Rang around for flat ring spanners locally - nothing. Eventually took a mallet ( wearing goggles ) to one of my ring spanners and put a bend in the handle which gave me the right angle and access and leverage I needed. Open spanner would have stripped the corners off the bolts as they were very solidly stuck.

Hi Simple Ahhh actually I thought this was legit, again naively I did not think that Citroen and others would have an issue with DIYers getting access to this information I simply thought the vmplayer was only about keeping control on the source with regards to modification or re-distribution. Point taken about computers at service stations although still not a fan of the vmplayer, if source control was not an issue you would simply write (say) a PHP database driven website and use a local server on the host machine, this would enable the user to use whatever operating system and browser combination they saw fit - that would be the simple solution, ok there are the usual issues with browser versions and non-compliance but people have that issue every time they go online and the solution lies with the user on that count. Not wishing to enter a technical tennis match just comparing a hypothetical clean solution with the actual solution. It seems counter intuitive to me to implement a local host DB website in this manner. I can sympathise with car manufacturers really, amateur tinkering on a complex diesel engine will probably not deliver much joy for them so apart from profits in selling repair information they probably dont like to encourage DIY'ers. On the other hand if you are like me and, have a 4 grand car and issues with turbo, ECU and possibly more then at some stage you dont fancy paying a professional even if the belief is that they will get to the root problem first time. At some stage complex cars will enter the time of their lives where DIY maintenance is the only sensible financial option and people will need some form of support. I am now considering that the next purchase will be the simplest petrol engine model I can find, not sure my conscience will allow me to resell the C5 so run it and look after it until its scrap - love the C5 but even if I get past these issues I have a feeling that the choice is to become an absolute mechanical whizz or to look around for simpler models. Thank god for the web, I have reams of online advice including trade stuff regards the pitfalls and common errors in refitting a turbo including case studies of fittings that went horribly wrong - if you are like me and caught between scrapping or self fix then its all very much welcome and whilst I am going slowly and forensically I don't have a lot to lose right now.

Hi Thanks I went ahead and downloaded, I also realised my naivety in thinking it would work using a transparent local server such as XAMPP because either Citroen or the people selling the download will not want people to have access to the source code and Database so they have chosen to wrap it up in vmware. Overall I think for a tenner its a very good buy. I accept the commercial reasons for wrapping it in vmware but is source control was not the issue then it would have so much better been done using a local server - XAMMP is fast - its faster than many servers online - vmware on the other hand makes my i7 machine chug along at speeds I have not seen for a very long time and god that "torch" showing an empty directory is back - I am glad I did not install on my slow laptop! In addition hardware such as printers is a pain - I will spend time looking into it in greater detail at a later time and made do with a work around for the time being as my focus is the car not the software - basically I go into XP mode save out the information and then return to windows10 to print or look at. There are improvements that could be made, for instance the instructions for one task will often include sub tasks that are detailed elsewhere, you would think that lines such as "Remove the catalytic converter and particle filter assembly" under the instructions for removing a turbo would actually be a link to that subtask but no you have to navigate back to the main menu and find it yourself - decent database design would deliver that kind of thing almost as a by product. Its slow, its clunky and antiquated (XP) - as a twenty year IT veteran (aerospace and automotive) I would probably sack someone if they came up with this as a solution today but that's a professional gripe and not worth getting upset about. The point is it does work, it does get you the information you need and for a tenner its very good value indeed. vmware does not seem to leave much footprint on the machine, I have yet to take a good look but it looks to me as if it would uninstall leaving the host machine relatively unaffected. Overall very pleased just a bit of culture shock to be transported back to bits of technology I thought we had left behind, I'll get over it ;-)

Hi, I have been looking into buying this. I was a bit confused with all the talk of a virtual machine but I have since wondered if what people are really talking about is a local server - for those who dont know the difference, usually your web browser communicates with a web based server that is located anywhere in the world. A local server sits on your machine but is a software emulation of a regular web server - example XAMPP I use a local server to develop websites so that I can see the website working on my machine but I dont have to be connected to the internet all the time. On my machine sits all the images, databases and code that usually constitute a remote website and the virtual server allows me to see the website running on my browser just as if I were connected to the internet and the website was actually hosted at a remote location. It boils down to sticking a load of stuff in a directory on your own machine and getting it to appear as a website. A virtual machine would entail a whole lot more, generally this involves software emulation of a different operating system and hardware, software writers use this kind of thing to see how their software will work say on a MAC when they have written the software for a PC - usually its not without its difficulties hence my initial concern - even as an ex IT pro of twenty years experience I still pull my hair out at the unwanted and uninvited upgrade to Win10 and I dont need extra cabbage in my stew right now. I am guessing that the entire workshop manual is effectively just one giant website and database package but arranged to sit on your machine. I am happy to install local servers on my computer I aready run XAMPP but I would need re--assurances installing a virtual machine because it usually involves more fundamental changes. Jonnie

Thanks Paul, I will go ahead with the purchase and I will take a look at the DVDs to see if thats an option.

Hi After looking at several issues with my C5 1.6 HDI I was about to purchase the Haynes manual to supplement the info available on forums such as this - I was going to buy online. Some reviewers indicated that it was good for fixing windscreen wipers but avoided the engine and oily stuff on account of increasing levels of computerisation. I certainly dont want to start fiddling with the computer side but I have usefully got by hands oily today and would like a book that was a reasonable attempt to help us do as much as we can whilst perhaps avoiding the computer side - for instance I have issues with my turbo that seem to be purely mechanical. Also as I mentioned elsewhere sometimes I like to diagnose the problem and then hand over to a pro - sorry to professionals out there but I feel more confident getting fair and good service when I show I understand the problem. Is the Hayes manual useful for those who are not oil shy or has anyone other recommendations for those who dont mind tackling at least some of engine stuff. Any recommendations for alternatives? Thanks Jonnie