How Cheap Could The C3 Be?

[raveydavey]

Let's be honest, the C3 is cheap for a 5-dr hatchback, with prices starting at £6,995. And that is the retail price - a bit of haggling should see a decent discount off that. OK, thats for a 1.1L that struggles outside town, but you get the point. It's very cheap when you compare it to a C1 or a C2.

 

But look at the standard equipment on the C3.

How much of that is actually needed?

 

Could you cope without remote central locking and speed sensetive wipers?

Could you manage without a rear wiper that comes on automatically if the front wipers are on and you select reverse? Could you just switch it on yourself? Or why not just do away with the rear wiper altogether like Honda have done with the new Civic?

Do you really need to be able to dim the dashboard lights?

To save money would you be prepared to wind the windows up and down yourself?

How often do you actually use your electric headlight adjusters?

Do you really need 4 airbags as standard?

Could you manage without a stereo that automatically adjusts the volume depending how fast you're going? (when it works...)

Do the bumpers have to be painted? Yes it looks better, but do they need to be colour-coded?

Legislation now requires the car to have ABS brakes and an immobiliser, but do you really need them?

Do you need two rear foglights and two reversing lights? Audi and VW have managed OK for years with just one of each - why does a Citroen need two?

 

I notice on early C3's (like mine) you got a cig lighter and a 12v socket in the centre console. The last loaner I had just had a 12v socket - that's the way Citroen!

 

I'll wager if they did away with all the unnecessary stuff they could probably shave another £1,000 off the price. I'm not saying I'd buy a stripped out basic model but I'll bet a lot of people would.

[hertsnminds]

You could take this argument to the extreme asking the following...

 

How often do you have more than 1 person in the car?

How often do you carry large amounts of shopping/luggage?

 

Why not just buy a moped, less tax, fuel, insurance and servicing costs.

 

A lot of the electric functions are software based, like switching the rear wiper on when you select reverse and speed sensitive wipers so adding or removing them does not cost much (assuming the software is already available for other models).

 

Removing airbags would probably lower the NCAP rating and increase the insurance group.

 

There are many lesser vehicles out there, if you want to buy a stripped down cheaper one.

If you want to save some cash and get a C3 have a look on autotrader. 2 year old C3 with around 10k on the clock start from £4,000 and you still get all the toys.

 

Ian

Black 55 VTR+

[raveydavey]

Hi Ian

 

The point I was making was how we've become used to getting all the "bells and whistles" on our cars now - stuff that was unthought of not all that long ago and which we could all really live without if we had to.

 

It's not that long since heated rear windows and a passenger side rear view mirror were a cost option on Fiesta Pops! It's about seven years since I bought my previous car and when I specc'd air-con on a small hatchback some people said I was mad. Now nearly everything has it fitted as standard.

I wouldn't buy a new car now without air-con through choice, although I know people who've bought cars with it fitted and who have never even switched it on.

 

I agree that due to the evolution of car design many of the associated costs are marginal, which ultimately means a better deal for the consumer in terms of kit fitted to the car.

 

That said, Renault are having a massive success with the Logan which is sold in former Eastern bloc countries and South Asia through their Dacia subsidiary. It's a modern looking car using previous generation (proven) running gear but without all the extras we've come to expect in Western Europe. OK it doesn't have airbags, etc which I don't know if many customers would accept over here, but it does retail for the equivalent of £2995 - for a car the size of a Laguna. I can't help that there would be a market for cars like that here, if they were available.

[kfk]

When they produced the C1 it was supposed to be a budget car designed for 'students' a cheap modern, no frills form of transport.......i like the car but cant help feeling Citroen Lost The plot.

 

As far as cars with lists of options.......i agree the car should be available as a 'basic shell'. Admitedly it takes me back to the days of Lada's when even the speaker holes wernt even provided.

 

Personally, i would buy a basic car, the only luxury would be a sunroof (no aircon), electric front windows and central locking.

 

the less you have the less to go wrong (or the lighter to push).

[raveydavey]

When they produced the C1 it was supposed to be a budget car designed for 'students' a cheap modern, no frills form of transport.......i like the car but cant help feeling Citroen Lost The plot.

 

I know what you mean - in the current range we have the basic models as follows:

 

C1 £5995

C2 £6495

C3 £6995

 

They should have aimed to get the C1 down to £4995 (or less) to provide a cheap entry point city car.

This would have allowed the C2 to be pitched at £5995.

 

It seems daft that they have three models within £1,000 of each other with massive overlaps between the three ranges dependant on spec.

 

A chap I know who works for Premier Automotive Group (the posh part of Ford) reckons that there is approaching a 50% mark up in the retail price of a decent spec Mondeo compared to the actual build cost, so I'd guess all the major manufacturers are in a similar position?

[hertsnminds]

The point I was making was how we've become used to getting all the "bells and whistles" on our cars now - stuff that was unthought of not all that long ago and which we could all really live without if we had to.

 

I agree and I was just taking your point to the extreme. In all the cars I owned before my C4 I was able to turn the lights on when it got dark and the wipers on when the screen needed cleaning. I could even keep to the speed limits and cruise on motorways without the car doing it for me.

 

The same is true of other things like phones. It used to be a phone was something you used to talk to someone else. Now with a phone you can take still and moving pictures, play back music, watch TV, listen to the radio, surf the internet, use it as a diary or calculator, play games, use it as a remote control mouse for your computer and many other things that you would never expect a phone to do.

 

To some extent the manufacturers are forced to add things for legeslative reasons, ABS, 3rd brake light, airbags and even things like the sensodrive and egs systems which are partly there to reduce emissions and put the cars in lower tax bands. A lot of the gadets are there because that's what the competition is offering. I think with the new Astra advert showing a larger windscreen GM are jumping on the Picasso visiospace bandwagon. Just becasue you can do something doesn't always make it useful and very rarely is it neccessary.

 

 

Ian

Black 55 VTR+

[Igloo_Vindaloo]

Do you need two rear foglights and two reversing lights? Audi and VW have managed OK for years with just one of each - why does a Citroen need two?

 

I was under the impression you were only allowed to have one rear fog lamp (to avoid confusion with brake lights). Did this rule change in the last few years?

[stimulator]

You can have only one rear fog light provided it's on the OFFSIDE. So if you are producing cars for left and right hand drive markets you would have to prodiuce handed lens. Therefore for Citroen it would appear cheaper and easier to fit pairs of both reverse and fog lamps to all models.

 

 

As for the other items

 

Must haves

Safety related

Airbags (the more the better)

ABS (always a looney in front who stamps at the last minute)

Rear wiper (without it the view in wet is deminished)

Auto locking (anti hijack)

A/C ( reduces humidy and that removes stress for the driving environment)

 

Nice to have

Auto lights (Come on when it gets dark also when wipers ON)

Auto wipers (as opposed to speed sense intermittent only wiupe when required)

 

Not really required

Cig lighter (Don't smoke and if HMG gets way so will nobody else)

Electric windows (With A/C never open except for tolls)

Dimmable dash lights (set and left alone)

MPG computer (who cares if you are that worried abot MPG you shouldn't own and drive a car)

FOG lamps front (never used them as the rulkes are quite clear about when and where. Others that do especially when NO FOG,should be shot)

 

LASTLY

Most definetely required a device that blanks out mobile phone signals when the engine is running.

[Guest chrisnn]

I'm not sure that the provision of facilities is necessariltthe issue - its their accessibility. In their desire to give us clean looking uncluttered dashboards, manufacturers have considerably reduced the button count. However, large clearly marked buttons were safe to use and easy to find. Saabs fell into this category for a long time

 

Today functions have become buried in menus and the infamous BMW I drive is the perfect example. Too often now, you find with a new car that you have to keep referring to the handbook ages after you've bought it, to remind yourself how to locate functions. Our C3 Pluriel handbook has in excess of 130 pages in it for what is a fairly basic car! My wife looks for a control with markings on. If she can't spot one, then as far she is concerned it doesn't exist, so however clever the software designers have been, their efforts have been wasted. Automating some controls is starting to get round some these, which is at least good from a safety point of view.

 

Personally, whilst I do like toys in cars and would like a luxury small car-I don't want to have to buy the biggest car in the range with the biggest engine to get the interior ambience I want

 

To return to the original point however , if it were a choice between toys and paint/build quality, the latter would be my choice