Hi There - C4 Vts

[wozza]

I think im a good driver i have a good ability on the road but i was taught from the beginning by an IAM driver. But now i actually want to join the IAM and then go from there into other driving courses that are more advanced want to make the conscious effort to improve my driving ability and only way to do that is to be taught to drive more experiance can only get you so far.

 

I mean i was good at the beginning but looking back i was a little too cocky about my driving did some daft things but now i look back and realise i was not a terrible driver i just didnt have enough experiance or know enough about my car and my own abilities which resulted in a very near bad accident as a result. After that i made an effort to improve.

 

Would like to do some track days but again would like to get some proper tuition for it so i can make the best of it as me being a better driver would mean i was more confident able to do more and ultimately id enjoy driving on track more etc.

 

Plus me being under 25 means its cheaper to join the IAM and some of the places give you your money back when you pass if your under 25. Also effects insurance prices etc. Makes sense to me to do it.

[Ciaran2903]

By the way it is "etc" and not "ect" abbreviated from the latin Et Cetera

Fair enough, but this has nothing to do with the subject at hand, and i am sure that everyone understood what i was getting at!

 

drive circa 40k a year in my company car and around 5k in my private car and have taken part in a number of track days but wouldn't call myself a "good driver."

 

Then maybe your view of a good driver is too strict, when can someone be a good driver then?

 

About the prejudice, i dont pre-judge BMW drivers like that, i like alot of the BMW range, i was just showing you what it feels like to be pre-judged.

[C4VTS]

when can someone be a good driver then?

 

I think it takes a few accidents or very near 'misses' for a driver to realise that he/she can not continue to drive in such a manner to have caused such incidents.

 

I have had a few accidents over the years, and most of these were due to not looking far enough ahead, and some were just stupid shunts due to not looking where I was going.

 

I have been involved in two accidents that were not my fault, and these were caused by the other driver pulling out of side turnings and not looking where they were going.

 

I have been accident free for about 10 years now.

 

A good driver is someone that drives with consideration for other road users, and knows how to look for, and react to potential hazards.

[ifigureditout]

well i had an accident 4 months ago which has almost wrote off my clio. the accident wasnt my fault and the driver was uninsured and about my age (18) and i feel a better driver for it. especially when an accident isn't your fault i feel it makes you more aware of other drivers and their driving styles. its not as simple as been competant with your own car as you never know if an idiot will pull out of a junction when its your rite of way.

 

i feel now that i am more aware of this and every other car on the road you have to be ready for them doing the most stupid thing you can imagine because it does happen.

 

and as for been a good driver, i think another important aspect is to never drive beyond what you feel comfortable with. if you go round a corner and think "damn i nearly lost it there" then you shouldnt drive like that, drive to your own ability and never push it. no matter how fast i drive i never have or never will risk it and really push it.

[Ciaran2903]

I realised that you needed to be wary of other drivers on the road aswell as yourself before i took my test, i posted the experience here, when the bus was overtaking a car going up a VERY twisty, VERY steep hill, then being cut up by a bus on a roundabout.

 

Having two very scary experiences caused by other drivers i found that out very early!

 

I nearly got rear ended by a bus aswell. being so close to buses is not nice! especially when the other driver has caused the incident!

 

I also witnessed an accident, the other lane was stopped due to traffic, someone tried to pull out of a house to try and get on the lane i was on, he nearly hit the car infront of me, i saw that and knew he was going to try it again, so i was prepared, i slowed down and all went well, i knew he would do it again, so i looked in my mirror and watched him hit the person behind me!

 

A good driver is someone that drives with consideration for other road users, and knows how to look for, and react to potential hazards.

 

I learned that VERY early due the the above experiences, by Z3M Roadster's prejudice i cannot have learned that yet, because i have recently passed my test, i learnt it BEFORE i even took my test!

[ifigureditout]

just because you are a new driver does not mean you are a bad one. i find with quite a few people they are better than drivers who have been driving for decades. someone who has just passed their test has all the theory and do's and don'ts firmly embedded in their minds and you have to look it in this way, a driver of 40 years has had 40 years to pick up bad habits. i notice it with my dads driving style and my own.

 

But, on the other hand, quite often young drivers are over confident and think they are better than they are. these are in the minority i think but these are the people that make my insurance so high and make some judgemental people view all young drivers as wreckless boy racers.

 

if you have been driving for years you undoubtably have more experience, but that doesnt mean your a better driver.

 

young vs older, i think if your careful and take into consideration all the things that have been said then you are ok. whatever age or length of driving there are idiots about everywhere regardless of age

[Ciaran2903]

You took the words out of my mouth ifigureditout! I go along with that 100%

The reason I got ticked off was this:

 

I wouldn't call anyone who has recently passed their test a "good driver."

(Which Z3M Roadster said.)

 

Perfect example of prejudice!

[Z3M Roadster]

Prejudice or not.

 

The truth is in the statistics, lots of newly passed drivers crash, you being one of those. Giving the excuse "the road was dangerous" doesn't really cut it, the road is inanimate and it didn't cause you to crash. Good drivers don't regularly leave the road and drive into trees!

 

Admittedly some younger drivers are better than those who have been driving for years. My point is, when you have been driving for less than a year you can hardly class yourself as a "good driver." Experience is the key.

[C4VTS]

The problem today, is that everybody thinks they are a good driver, and many surveys have confirmed this theory.

 

Passing the IAM test does not make you a good driver anymore than passing the standard car driving test.

 

The problem with any kind of test is that it only confirms that on the day of the test you were competant enough to pass. An MOT test is only really valid when the vehicle was tested, as anyone could borrow bits of another vehicle just to pass the test, such as tyres, lights etc.

 

My employer sent me on a driver awareness course, which I found slightly useful.

It was only a classroom session, but it did provide some useful information on potential hazards.

[Ciaran2903]

Well, it is true that i left the road, but everyone who has been in the car with me says that i am a good driver, and i did not use the road as an excuse, i caused the accident, not the road, the fact that it was a dangerous road was just a catalyst.

 

Good drivers don't regularly leave the road and drive into trees!

 

and neither do i, i did it ONCE, not regularly, and have not been close to it happening before!

 

I got caught out, i did not know how to control a car going out of control, because i have never had to rely on it before!

I was the one who got into the situation, and i did not have the skills to get out of it!

 

 

Not sure how much more i have to say that it was down to me before you get it into your head!

 

I am a good driver, but have yet to learn the car control skills that i would like to!

Note that i admit that i HAVE YET TO LEARN THE CAR CONTROL I WOULD LIKE TO!

 

. I know that i NEED to learn more car control in the event of something bad happening (hopefully i will never need to use them!).

 

Then there!

 

Not knowing how to get the car out of a sideways orientation!

and here!

I was naive, i didnt realise that country roads can be that dangerous, i was the one who got into the situation! It WAS my fault!

I never denied that!

 

Just because i had an accident doesnt mean i am a bad driver, if i was a bad driver, then i would not have passed my test, first time.

I made a VERY bad judgement call, it was not due to me being a bad driver,

 

JUST BAD JUDGEMENT!

 

 

You are still going along with the first thing that came into your head, rather that listen to what i have to say.

 

I still have things to learn, as everyone, but that does not make me a bad driver.

[Z3M Roadster]

Righto, keep thinking you are a good driver.

 

Next time you get caught out, then you might realise that you are not as good as you might think.

 

A good driver wouldn't lose control in the first place (presuming the road conditions were dry and clear), losing control means you were beyond the level of your competence due to inexperience.

[kfk]

Scuse me, mind if i get a word in.

 

Try not to take comments personally......and remember its not a contest to have the last word :lol:

[welshys90]

thats not neccessarily true, my dads been drivin for 34 years he has 4 drivin certificates and drives HGV's all day every day except saturday and sunday, and is a very good driver but he has still been caught out through bad judgement luckily it hasnt cause or been an accident but what Ciaran2903 is right, bad judgement doesnt make a bad driver, doin idiotic things such a lane jumpin, drivin with your full beams constantly on, and not payin attention is key elements of a bad driver, although bad judgement can be one it is not the only one, and especially on a country road where you cannot see because of a hedge/tree and the road is very tight and weavy it is very easy to lose control on a corner that was much bigger than you thought it was. and Z3M Roadster if you think your a good driver we'll have a good talk about how you felt wen you get caught out AND on country roads you can count on there bein mud and horse poop due 2 tractors and farm yard animals as well which make it very slippery

[Ciaran2903]

losing control means you were beyond the level of your competence due to inexperience.

 

Right, i got myself into a situation that i couldnt get out of, i made a mistake, i fucked up.

I was not over confident, i was obviosly going too fast for the corner at hand, and did not have the ability to get out of it, but i never thought that i had the ability, just (as stuey said) ran out of talent.

 

It was 3am in the morning, pitch black and i made a mis-judgement. I mis-judged a corner and had an accident, thats the end of it. One mis-judgement does not me a bad driver.

[Z3M Roadster]

....... wouldn't call myself a "good driver." I am competent and *touch wood* have never had an accident which was my fault.

 

If you don't know the roads don't drive fast, how about that for a tip.

 

Bearing in mind I live in the middle of the countryside, I am fully aware of meeting tractors, horses, mud on the road, water on the road from field irrigation, you name it, but thank you for the warning.

[Z3M Roadster]

Agreed, Ciaran, nor does it make you a good driver though. That is my only point.

[ifigureditout]

alot comes down to the level of confidence, if a driver is over confident they are likely to drive beyond their skills but if they arent confident enough to beleive they are competant they shouldnt be on the road either.

 

there is no way you can put it plainly down to how long you have had your license.

 

some idiot crashed into me, therefore i have had a crash through no fault of my own, does that make me a bad driver?

 

there are plenty of young idiots around on the road, but its not down to inexperience its over confidence. but bare in mind young drivers get grouped more, 17 - 25 is an easier target to direct all this at than 25+

 

every age group has its idiots. its not just down to experience.

 

i havent had my license too long but after my experience with that crash i feel it has made me more alert and more aware so how do i compare to a driver whos had his license 10 years with no accidents but thinks they can walk on water and that they are the best driver ever.

 

theres so many factors you have to think about, its not just experience, its the type of person you are, confidence etc...

 

its just not that clear cut, simple as imo.

[evilone]

S**t happens nothing anyone can do about it.

 

Even with many years of experience and the most hi-tech cars even F1 drivers can and do get it wrong.

 

An accident is just that an accident. If you have never had your car slide out of control before then you won't have the experience to control it. Some of us don't drive our cars that badly

 

It has been said in this thread "I have been in accidents none of them my fault". If they are that good why did they not take some action that prevented the accident.

 

I'm with KFK on this one "respect" not only makes a good driver but a good person as well

[evilone]

It is our god given right to have an opinion, but if you do not have ALL of the facts it is an assumption NOT an opinion.

 

Also we have to learn that at times it shows great wisdom to keep that opinion to ourselves.

 

Leave the guy alone he is going to feel bad enough as it is.

 

Here endeth the the rant.

[C4VTS]

I am not very happy today :blink:

 

Went to collect my car from the dealer today after having some work done, and when I looked inside the car it had nearly an inch of water in the passenger side front and rear. Someone had left the car outside the dealer overnight with the window open :angry:

 

I had to keep the loan car and leave it with them to put right. :(

[Ciaran2903]

After having a "hold you breathe in a sink full of water competion" at bording school, enevitably there is a fair amount of water that gets spilled, in this case on carpet. WOW it smells!

 

I found the passenger side damp one day, not due to having the windows down (maybe aircon? only happened once), and was very worried about any smells that may pop up! Obviously there was not enough water to cause anything smelly!

 

Maybe the carpets in cars are treated, i dont know.

 

and yes i do know how sad a "hold you breathe in a sink full of water competion" sounds, but boys can find ANYTHING to do for fun when bored! :blink:

[C4VTS]

Well, it's not rocket science to check that a customers car is secure when being left outside, ie all doors and windows shut. :blink:

[Ciaran2903]

Well, it's not rocket science to check that a customers car is secure when being left outside, ie all doors and windows shut. 

 

Very true! Not sure what you can do in this situation really.

[Ciaran2903]

Agreed, Ciaran, nor does it make you a good driver though. That is my only point.

Very true, doing it does not make me a good driver, but learning a lesson from it will make me a better driver.

[ifigureditout]

my point exactly that is an "experience"

 

i just want to clarify that my accident, i couldn't have done anything about it. i was coming up a road at 30 and saw a car waiting to pull out but it was my rite of way, i checked to make sure he wasnt pulling out and he didnt then when i got upto it he just pulled out and didnt see me and went into me.

 

he was a young driver, like i said there are some stupid ones about but im not.

 

hes also uninsured, and it means i have now already spent 1500 on fixing my car, my first car, the first car i saved so much to buy and the car i pay 1850 a year insurance whilst the other guy pays nothing