C5 2008 Rack Leak And Replacement

[johntom]

Hi

My rack is leaking from the pipe 'o' rings and possibly the input shaft (need to confirm).

 

I have located a seal kit containing the 4 'O' rings £50 + vat and/or a rack is available for £150 + vat.

 

Are the seals replacable without taking the rack off ?

 

How big a job is replacing the rack and is there a link to the procedure anywhere ?

 

Thanks

[paul.h]

I think I would go for the replacement rack if it is a reconditioned one (do not bother with one from a scrap yard) since replacing the seals may not give a guarantee of a repair if there is any damage to the sealing surfaces. This topic http://www.citroen-owners-club.co.uk/citroen/topic/20872-power-steering-leaking-fluid/?do=findComment&comment=75684  shows what the input shaft may be like if it has rusted so once cleaned up it may not give a good seal and there may also be a wear groove where the seal contacts it. On top of the parts cost for a replacement rack will be the cost of tracking at a garage and the fluid.

 

Parkesie diy replaced his rack so may give a few details or, if you can get a dealer/garage to do it for not much more than the tracking cost it may be worth considering this option.

 

The following is an edited Citroen's procedure:

 

Disconnect the battery.

Pinch the power-steering pump supply pipe, using tool [4153-T].

Remove the ignition key.

Lock the steering wheel.

Lift and support the vehicle with the wheels free.

Remove the front wheels.

 

Remove : The trim under the fascia.

On the steering universal joint - Separate the tongue and remove the nut and its pin.

Detach the steering universal joint by moving aside the safety clip.

 

Remove the track rod end nuts on each side.

Uncouple : The steering track rod end swivel joints using the ball joint extractor [1892-T] (on each side).

 

CAUTION : Plug the inlets and outlets of the hydraulic circuit to prevent any penetration of contaminants.

Remove pipe retaining bolt on the rack.

Uncouple the pipes from the steering valve.

Remove the front subframe with the steering rack.

 

Remove :

• The nuts holding the rack to the subframe
• The shims from the steering rack and then remove the steering rack.

3. Refitting

CAUTION : Always fit new Nylstop nuts.

CAUTION : Adhere to the tightening torques.

CAUTION : Replace the "o" ring seals on the pipes (if you can get them !).

Position the steering rack on the front subframe and fit the nuts 140 Nm.

 

 

CAUTION : For vehicles fitted with a steel subframe, check visually that the steering mechanism is in contact with the subframe.

Refit the front subframe.

Recouple the pipes (according to assembly).

Refit the pipe retaining screw 8 Nm.

 

 

CAUTION : For vehicles not fitted with a washer between the track rod boot and the steering arm, fit a washer (Component with a Part No., to be ordered separately from the parts catalogue).

Couple up : The steering track rod swivel joints.

Refit :

• The track rod nuts 48 Nm
• The steering shaft universal joint, the nut 20 Nm and its pin
• The trim under the fascia

Remove the tool [4153-T].

Fit the wheels.

Tighten the wheel bolts.

CAUTION : Perform the operations to be carried out following reconnection of the battery.

Reconnect the battery.

Fill and bleed the power steering hydraulic circuit.

Check the front wheel tracking and adjust it if necessary.

[johntom]

That's brilliant thanks!

I agree a recon rack would be a better bet considering the rusty input shaft.

 

I've only just got the car and don't have it with me at the moment, re 'remove the front subframe' which sounds too easy, is the front suspension mounted to this ?

 

For future reference the seal kit (which contains the 4 'o' rings) is available from Jay Gee Hydrolic services, part number 23275 and the price quoted was £50 + vat

[paul.h]

I hope Parkesie will say the rack can be removed with the subframe in place.

 

I have just found the procedure for it and it adds a lot of possibly unnecessary work. Depending on the engine, the exhaust may need removing, it needs disconnecting from the front extension part of the subframe 65 Nm, from the steering pipes, possibly a couple of electrical connectors near the left steering rack gaiter, from the suspension hub swivels 75 Nm, possibly the front anti roll bar bearings 45 Nm, removing bolts at the sides 140 Nm and the rear 140 Nm (but yoke parts to body are 100 Nm) and then it may be heavy to lower down.

[Parkesie]

Hi the good news is that the seals should be replaceable with the rack still fitted, would be a tight sqeeze and lead to cut up hands to do though. My c5 is the 140 2.0 diesel, to change the rack it is possible without dropping the subframe if you have a stud extractor to get the steering rack studs out. I lowered the sub frame as it is only something like 9 bolts to do and made it alot easier.

Before lowering the subframe make sure to remove the hoses that are secured to it.

Check the condition of the input shaft before deciding what to do as if its corroded badly the new seals may not seal against it.

[Parkesie]

I left all the steering and suspension parts hooked up to the subframe. Unbolted the subframe from the chassis and rear engine mount. Lowered it on a jack by 3 or 4 inches slid rack out new one in. Subframe went back up and located easily onto its mounting points.

[johntom]

Hi

The engine is the 2.0 hdi. Would be great if the rack came out with the subframe in situ.

[johntom]

I think the recon rack is the way to go, there's £120 difference but at least the pinion seal is guaranteed not to leak. I could risk the seal kit at £60 and then have to start again !

 

The supplier said the new rack would have to be fitted with the wheels 'turned fully right' does this make sense ?

[paul.h]

The rack must be supplied with it turned to the right. If not happy with this, you could turn it from lock to lock and count the number of turns of the shaft and then set it half way so it is straight ahead - otherwise you could end up with the steering wheel in the wrong position when going straight ahead. I would also check the number of turns on the existing one before starting. I would suspect though it is easier if it is done with the wheels straight ahead so you can keep the steering wheel in the straight ahead position, which I think is the usual way when replacing a rack.

 

A look in the Haynes manual for the 2001 to 2008 C5 gives a very similar procedure for removing the rack involving removing the subframe and this starts with the wheels straight ahead.

[Parkesie]

I did my rack in the straight ahead position. Disconnected the old one in the straight ahead fitted the new one and connected the steering column last so i could make sure the rack was in the straight ahead. The rack comes out of the right hand side easiest its getting it to rotate so that the input shaft comes out and clears everything that makes dropping the subframe easier. With the studs removed it should be doable with some swearing. Double check with whoever supplies the rack that its for a 2008 on car i had two suppliers send a old rack. The correct rack ended up being 250 if i remember correctly which was still 750 lass than a new one from citroen.

[johntom]

Hi

Had the job done today. I found a local garage that quoted £300 all in, to change the rack for a reconditioned one with 12 months guarantee. At £100 more than I could get a rack for (and including tracking) it wasn't worth a day crawling about on the floor in the rain !

Thanks for all your help, any thoughts on greasing the input shaft (currently painted black) on the recon input shaft ?

[paul.h]

Brilliant, it was one of those jobs where the saving in labour costs was not that great to warrant all the agro of doing the job yourself.

 

Feel free to recommend the garage since there will be others who will need this work doing in the future.

[pln]

The rack must be supplied with it turned to the right. If not happy with this, you could turn it from lock to lock and count the number of turns of the shaft and then set it half way so it is straight ahead - otherwise you could end up with the steering wheel in the wrong position when going straight ahead. I would also check the number of turns on the existing one before starting. I would suspect though it is easier if it is done with the wheels straight ahead so you can keep the steering wheel in the straight ahead position, which I think is the usual way when replacing a rack.

 

A look in the Haynes manual for the 2001 to 2008 C5 gives a very similar procedure for removing the rack involving removing the subframe and this starts with the wheels straight ahead.

Is there any specific reason, why the rack has to be installed fully turned right?

 

I also had the leaking steering rack on my 2008 C5 Tourer, but I didn't replace the rack - only the sealing on the input shaft.

 

After the re-installation of the rack, my car is not self centering the steering wheel very well anymore. The wheels has been aligned 3 times, on 3 different garages, but it didn't help.

 

When I installed the rack, the wheels was straight ahead and not fully turned right as described here.

 

Now I'm wondering if my problem could be related to the installation procedure?

 

/pln

[Parkesie]

So long as the rack is central, same number of turns to full lock left and right your installed just fine. Could be that the tracking was out before and your just used to how that felt?

[Samstew]

Hi

I know this is an old topic, so I hope there is someone out there who can offer some help or advice.

I have had a 2008 Citroen CTR+ 2.0Hdi and have had this problem with the steering rack for quite a few months now!

I have been regularly topping up the LDS level to keep me going, after being quoted over £2k for the repair...........!!!!

I can't afford this, but the car will be worthless without the work being done

The car is now coming up to its service interval and will also require an MOT in the New Year, which of course with this problem, will fail.

I am hoping that someone can recommend a garage that can sort this out for me.

I live in Suffolk, but will travel for a job well done at a good price.

[paul.h]

I would have thought any decent garage would be able to replace the steering rack and you need to specify you want a reconditioned one to keep the cost down. Let the garage source it though so they are responsible for all of the job in case anything goes wrong.

 

johntom has not been on the forum since January but if you sent a message he would get a notification by email if you wanted to know where he had the work done. To do this, move your mouse pointer over his name and when the details box shows, click on send message.

 

There are a few more topics linked in the Common Problems topic:

25. New C5 (mark 3/X7) steering rack oil leaks - at least 8 cases so far.

We have 2 members jefflad and Howiec with steering rack leaks that are proving difficult to fix. Where the supply and return pipes join the rack, the seals are leaking fluid. It seems Citroen want to replace the pipes to fix this and that just replacing the O-ring seals does not work. Citroen also do not sell the seals separately. An additional 2 members, Parkesie and johnfing, have found a leak from the steering column shaft input seal on top of the steering rack, which initially was thought to be the pipe seals. This seal also is not available so replacement racks have been fitted. The column shaft has badly rusted so may be the cause of the leak - applying grease could possibly prevent this. Seehttp://www.citroen-o...uid/#entry75684 . See also this topic for info on replacing the rack

http://www.citroen-o...ent/#entry81594

 

There are 2 more cases here and one being caused by corrosion of the rack where the alloy oil pipes connecthttp://www.citroen-o...-leaking-fluid/

 

Have a look at this topic from C5greener for another leak point in the piping near the rack http://www.citroen-o...-steering-leak/

[Parkesie]

Any good indipendent garage should be able to do it for alot less than 2k genuine new citroen rack from citeoen is 1k for the rack a recon rack comes in at £300 or less. Alow for 4-5 hrs labour. I did mine on the drive using a small trolley jack and 2 axle stands in 5hrs. Could do it quicker and easier if i had taken it i to work.

[Parkesie]

I got mine form these guys. Www.acspowersteering.co.uk after several places supplying incorrect spec racks these guys overnighted the correct one next day and its been faultless since i fitted it.

[Samstew]

Many thanks for the replies, to what is a very old topic, I had my doubts that anyone would respond, let alone so quickly :)

Out of interest, has anyone come across this company advertising on Ebay, I only came across the advert last night!

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272025670230?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

They are offering a reconditioned rack fitted for £355!

 

I am not a mechanically minded person, so if anyone has any tips on what to ask or to avoid, I would be most grateful.