2.0Hdi 6 Speed Automatic Slight Whine In First?

[aj-c525]

Hi guys!

 

Purchased a C5 Exclusive yesterday, and when I drove it this morning I noticed an ever so slight whine in first when accelerating on light loads, then completely stops when it changes in to 2nd. When accelerating hard it doesn't seem to do it- but if you say lock it in first on the selector and lightly accelerate you can hear the gear whine until it shifts.

I can only describe it as the sort of gearbox whine you hear on inner city buses when they accelerate from a standstill. You can hear it over the fans but not over the radio so it's not loud by any stretch.

It doesn't make any strange noises other than this, it doesn't knock or grumble and it doesn't whine at a standstill and the changes are as smooth as you like.

 

I've never owned an auto before so I'm unsure if this is normal or not. I've done a bit of net research but with conflicting results. Obviously there are the scare mongers that say it is facing imminent failure but then others say that autos do it in first because of the planetary gears or something?!

 

I'm used to gearbox whine as an idea- my old C4 VTS had diff whine, my old 206 gtis all used to whine in 2nd on acceleration and deceleration and my girlfriends (brand new) is actually pretty noisy in first and second (manual)

 

I understand gearboxes aren't quiet by the very nature of what they are and what they do and it's basically a battle between noise control and strength but just looking for a few ideas etc I.E if it's common on these particular boxes.

 

The car is on 80k and I don't have a record of the fluid being changed so probably due to be fair.

 

Any help welcome!!

 

Thanks

Alex

[aj-c525]

Sorry to confirm the car is an auto box- should have put that in title

[paul.h]

Welcome to the forum.

 

I have edited the title to include automatic.

 

What year is the car ?

 

I have never driven an auto box car so am unable to say if a whine is normal, but hopefully there will be other replies. Any whine I've had on a gear box has been due to wear from high mileage.

[aj-c525]

Thanks appreciate it!

 

The car is an 09 so the X7 I believe is the model number?

 

I've been doing as much internet research as possible and it seems to be a case of it can never really be solved. Other forums stating that they have had rebuilt boxes for the same noise to return a few thousand miles later etc so to be honest I think I'll change the fluid and just live with it. I've had manuals with a lot worse whine! The noise from my partners brand new Mazda 2 in 1st and 2nd is way way worse.

 

The car only cost me 6k so I'm happy to accept some mileage related noises to be honest. It has 80k on it so never going to be perfect.

[paul.h]

I have read on here it is best to get a dealer to change the auto box oil since the oil temperature has to be correct to get the level right. It is not possible to drain all the oil so needs a couple of changes.

[MikeLane]

I have read on here it is best to get a dealer to change the auto box oil since the oil temperature has to be correct to get the level right.

That sounds almost unbelievable Paul.

The Haynes Manual for both gearboxes (AL4and AM6) say that one should make sure the ground is absolutely flat then fill to the level plug level and let any surplus drain out, then screw the filler amd level plugs in. Next start the engine and let it idle for a few minutes. Then switch off and check the level again, topping up if necessary. Refit plugs and take the vehicle for a short run. Then check the level again (this time the oil will be very hot!).

On 2001 - 2008 models  the level should be checked every 36000 miles - adding 0.5 litres of fluid before one starts.

I was suprised to see that Drain and Refill needs 4.5 litres of fluid and the total capacity (including torque converter) is 6 litres!

 

Are you sure it wasn't a dealer who posted that comment?

[milleplod]

My '09 Exclusive is just the same. 70k miles. I usually notice the whine if I've been using the autobox in manual - setting off from a standstill means it holds 1st till I tell it otherwise, and that's when the whine is audible, presumably because it revs higher than in full auto, where it slips into 2nd very early on. In fact, I'm sure it sets off in 2nd sometimes when I'm driving Miss Daisy-style!

 

Pete

[aj-c525]

Ah ok good to know I'm not the only one! Sounds like it must be a regular/normal thing then.

 

I'm close to Chevronics in Hitchin and BL Autos in Welwyn so if I get the fluid changed I'll get it done there.

 

I'm going to get one of them to check it over anyway as I'm sure the rear is slightly lower than the front but I'm still in that stage where because it's new to me I'm assuming everything must be broken. Ha. It rides fine, so I'll check that it auto levels then I'll just see how she goes for a few months and get it booked in somewhere.

 

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated. Glad to be back in a Citroen!!

[paul.h]

To get a workshop manual you can get the Citroen service box through ebay. It comes on 3 dvds to install on your computer. If you are ok with French, then there is also the RTA manual which is similar to a Haynes one https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Books/Rta-B737-Citro%C3%ABn-C5-Hdi-Depuis-2008/2726873758

 

I think it was coastline taxis who suggested using a dealer, so not a Citroen dealer. Below is the oil change procedure for the AM6 auto box from the service box procedure for the 2008 on C5 (X7) - if the oil temp is too hot when checking the oil level then the amount will not be enough, if it is too cold then the amount will be too much. Note that euro 4 and euro 5 engines use different oil in the gear box:

 

2. Drain and refill

CAUTION : The gearbox must be drained when the oil is hot (60 °C minimum), to eliminate the impurities suspended in the oil.

N.B. : The oil change is partial, since the converter cannot be totally drained.

 

Put the vehicle on a hoist.

Remove :

• The protective panel under the engine
• The top-up plug; Using a TORX socket wrench
• The oil overflow and drainage plug ; Using a 6 -sided wrench (note the level plug is in the middle of the drain plug)

N.B. : Approximately 3 litres of oil should flow out.

3. Refilling

Refit :

• The oil overflow and drainage plug (equipped with a new seal)
• The top-up plug ; Using a TORX socket wrench

Remove :

• The air filter housing
• The filler cap

Use tool [0340] topping up cylinder.

CAUTION : Ignore the information mentioned on the tool [0340].

CAUTION : The oil type "AW-1" in AT6 and AM6 gearboxes with engine version Euro 5 is specific and cannot be replaced with oil type ""JWS 3309"".

Dry gearbox oil capacity : 7 litres (approx.).

Type of oil (Red) :

• EURO 5 engine : AW-1 oil
• EURO 4 engine : JWS 3309 ESSO oil

Volume of oil remaining after draining : 4 litres (approx.).

Quantity of oil to be replaced : 3 litres (approx.).

Refit the filler plug (equipped with a new seal).

Initialise the used oil counter (follow the diagnostic tool procedure).

 

4. Check the oil level

Prior conditions :

• Vehicle level
• Check that the gearbox is not in downgrade mode
• Remove the filler plug
• Add 0,5 additional litres of oil in the gearbox
• Apply the brakes firmly and move the lever through the various selector positions
• Gear lever in position "P"
• Engine running at idle
• Oil temperature 60°C (+ 8 ; - 2 °C) (measuring of parameters using a diagnostic tool)

Remove the oil level plug.

4.1. Stream of oil then reducing to a sequence of drips

Refit the oil level plug.

 

4.2. Sequence of drips or nothing

Refit the oil level plug.

Stop the engine.

Add 0,5 additional litres of oil in the gearbox.

Repeat the top-up procedure.

N.B. : The level of oil is correct when the stream of oil becomes drop by drop.

Refit the oil level plug (equipped with a new seal).

 

4.3. Check the oil level (continued)

Refit :

• The filler cap  (equipped with a new seal)
• The air filter box
• The protective panel under the engine

Too high a fluid level can cause :

• Overheating of the fluid
• Fluid leaks

Too low a level will lead to destruction of the gearbox.

[Rookie2]

Hi AJC525

 

Just to add my twopenneth.

 

I have had a great deal of experience with the AL4's, most of it bad unfortunately.

The AL4 had the problem of a poor valve pack inside the box. These valve packs can be purchased for about 350 and can be exchanged by the average mechanic with a bit of care.

Now I am not saying you have that problem as obviously yours is not the AL4 box, but the reason I mention it is because during my escapades with the AL4 I learned a trick or two about auto boxes.

 

If you go to a reputable auto box reconditioning centre, the majority of them have a flushing rig.

These auto boxes from a build up of gunge within the valve packs (yes, your box does have a valve pack) and absolutely loads of it lying within the torque convertor which is impossible to remove during normal gearbox oil drain.

 

This is where the flushing rig comes into it.

The rig is connected to your gearbox and it pumps auto box oil into and through the box. When you watch  what comes out of the return pipe it is quite frightening to see the return flow start off jet black and eventually turn to a nice clean red colour.

 

That black gunge gets spread throughout the gearbox and is responsible for the vast majority of ALL Auto gearbox problems. If you have the opportunity to get it done then it is well worth it, though a little costly when you realise that approx 5 to 6 gallon of auto fluid is used but the result is well worth it.

 

cheers

Edited February 27, 2017 by Rookie2

[Jadblobs]

I have the same model, mine does whine slight in first as well when accelerating softly. Goes when the revs pick up more.