Multiple Faults - Common-Uncommon Help Please

[checkoutcharlie]

Hi all

 

I am new to the world of being a citroen C3 owner and i have a few issues that i cant seem to sort and have left me completely confused.

I have a C3 desire 1.4 on an 05 plate and would be grateful for any advice.

 

Firstly the engine temp seems to erratic according to the dash display. after 6 miles of driving it gets to the first bar only. after i have travelled 8 miles to work it still sits on the first bar, however if i turn the engine off then turn the ignition back on it shows 2 bars.

 

i have taken it on a 200 mile motorway journey and it goes up to 3 bars and drops between 3 and 1 bar and vice versa even when travelling at 70mph.

 

 

Secondly which is the most worrying is that the heater will not blow warm air, it will blow cold and mildly warm even when the dash states 3 bars, the water level is on the max on cold and after a journey it goes down halfway between max and min.

i leave the car parked for 24 hours and open the expansion tank and pressure releases and the level comes back to max or sometimes a little below max.

 

I have had the water pump changed by my local garage who i have used for years and never had a problem with, but it still does it.

 

is it normal for it to hold pressure even when cold for 24 hours?

 

it has been bled several times and the pips going to and from the heater are warm but the air is still cold.

 

Are these faults connected in any way and how can i fix them as my garage is baffled and i have no ideas.

 

the thermostat looks new so i have not had it changed yet.

there is no oil in the water or water in the oil and no obvious signs of a water leak

i have ordered a haynes manual but can anyone tell me what i need to do or change as i am all out of ideas.

 

Engine has done 96,000. the cambelt looks good for another 30,000.

do i need a new engine or just to change some parts if so could someone tell me what parts and where they are as i am not that mechanically minded.

 

The car other than that is really good, i am 6ft 3inches and fit in it great and lots of space etc i just dont want to destroy it by not doing the fixes.

 

thanks in advance

alan

[Rookie2]

Hi Buddy

 

First of all, do you know if your radiator is blocked ?

 

To check, do this carefully, drive the car until it registers as warm as you say you can get it. When the pipes to and from the radiator are hot, switch off the engine and feel the surface of the radiator with your hand (Carefully). Dont go burning yourself but the radiator should be warm over it;s whole surface area.

If for instance the radiator is cold in the middle but warm at the top and possibly the bottom, it would indicate the radiator is blocked.

 

If the radiator is uniformly warm, then we need to look at something else.

Behind the engine you should see twi rubber pipes about 25mm  wide side by side going through the bulk head and into the cabin of the car.

We need to know if those rubber pipes are also warm when the engine is hot.

 

Those two pipes feed a small radiator inside the car itself which, when your internal blower is switched on, blows heat into the car interiror.

It could be that the interior radiator is blocked or even possibly disconnected by the previous owner or, your "Hot/Cold" selector switch is not working

 

Let me know how you get on buddy

[paul.h]

It seems as if the thermostat needs replacing. They are not too expensive despite coming complete with the thermostat housing,. We had a 2003 1.4 petrol C3 and the temperature was always 3 bars once warmed up after a couple of miles. The pipes to/from the bulkhead and cabin heater should be hot to touch, not just warm. The heater on our C3 was one of the best we have ever had on a car for lots of hot air and rapidly warmed the cabin.

 

If you have a code reader with live data you can see what temperature the coolant is, should be about 90 to 96°C once warmed up. The fan starts at 96°C on first speed and if it continues to rise the second speed will kick in. I once checked the temperature of the bars as they lit up and the second bar lit up at 70°C and the third at 78°C so each bar covers a wide range.

 

A quick check of the thermostat without the code reader is to see if the radiator top hose warms up as the engine warms, or waits until the engine is hot and the temp gauge is showing 3 bars. If it gradually warms then the thermostat is opening too early (or it is open all the time) and it needs replacing. The thermostat should start to open at 89°C and be full open at 101°C.

 

The temp dropping once moving is a sign of the thermostat not closing a bit as the radiator is cooled by the flowing air - again a sign of a faulty thermostat.

 

The level changing a bit may be a sign of air in the system since the C3 is difficult to bleed all the air out - there are 2 bleed points, one on the cylinder head and one on the heater pipes. Citroen use a raised funnel to add the coolant to help bleed the air out but I managed it using a vacuum pump on the cylinder head bleed point but it still took a couple of days before all the air was out of the cabin heater. You would normally expect the level to rise a bit as the coolant heats up and then go back down as it cools again.

[checkoutcharlie]

hello

Thanks for your replies and advice.

I have just finished doing some checks on the car as you suggested.

 

I used the car this morning and drive locally, i got stuck in traffic for a few minutes and when i got going travelling at about 30mph the engine management light came on and the car was juddery. i had to drive on due to the roads and when acccelerated the light went off.

 

I have had the car running at home and the radiator felt the same temp at all corners.

 

I couldnt check the centre without taking the fan off and i do not have a clue how to take it off.

 

The radiator top hose and bottom hose were hot to touch.

however the bottom hose going into the bulk head was also hot to the touch,but the top hose with the bleed screw was only barley warm.

 

I left the engine running as i was attempting to bleed the system and check if the fan kicks in,

the fan kicked in but cant be sure what speeds however the engine management light came on and is still on.

The engine only got to 3 bars

 

Not sure what my next step is, system pressurises.fan speeds all work.

Do i need to get the thermostat changed.

also what could cause the management light to come on and what is the reader that someone could advise me of to buy so i can can check codes and clear them.

 

I replaced the coil pack with a second hand unit a few weeks ago as advised by my garage as it came on just after the waterpump was replaced when stationary at the garage.

 

Thank you

alan

[paul.h]

I still think the thermostat needs changing, see if the top hose to the radiator warms up as the engine warms - it should not do this until the 3 bars are lit up if the thermostat is ok but even then if 3 bars is from 78°C it could still be faulty. However, a faulty thermostat would not put the engine management light on and a code reader will be needed to see what this is.

 

A code reader with live data as an example that is not too expensive https://www.gendan.co.uk/product_FXNT200.html

[checkoutcharlie]

Hi

Thank you for your reply

I took the car to the garage this morning. I checked the coolant level before I started the car which i seem to be doing everyday and the expansion tank was empty, I had hoped that this meant that the water had displaced the air lock and all was well.

 

It still has an erratic temp display going from 0 to 2 bars and back to 2 in a matter of seconds but it is going to have another thermostat fitted Friday and see if that helps.

He has plugged it into his computer and it is saying multiple faults on cylinders so he is fitting a new coil pack and new plugs on Friday also.

 

So I will see what changes that makes.

 

Also noticed tonight a hole just before the back box with small amount of water dripping out.

Hoping that is just water vapour from the exhaust process and nothing more serious?

 

Thank you for the link for the code reader. I have ordered one for future use.

 

I will keep everyone posted as to what happens next, really hope this fixes it.

 

Regards

Alz

[paul.h]

The temperature gauge jumping from 0 to 2 bars on and off quickly and the expansion tank being empty could be a sign of a head gasket problem. If the temperature sensor is going between liquid and air, when air goes passed the temp may drop until liquid goes passed again. So as well as a thermostat you may also have a head gasket fault.

 

When the old spark plugs are removed this may reveal the problem - on our C3 the plugs would be a light beige colour which is normal. If yours have any that are black it could mean that cylinder is not right such as the head gasket leaking and if the piston is clean it could mean coolant leaking in to it is cleaning it. The garage should check for a leaking head gasket with a pressure test whilst the plugs are out but can also do a sniffer test in the expansion tank for combustion products.

 

The water dripping out of the exhaust could be the normal condensation as the engine/exhaust warms up. If though you can see steam coming out all the time once warmed up, it can be a sign of a leaking head gasket.

[Rookie2]

checkoutcharlie

 

Hi, How long have you had the car ? I am a bit suspicious when you say that there is a hole just before the back box and water is dripping fro  this. Is the hole a rust hole or is it a hole that someone has made in the exhaust pipe ?

If you have not had the car for too long and the hole is a "Drilled" Hole then I would suggest the previous owner knew about the heating problem and drilled the hole before the back box to stop the obvious water drip from the tail pipe which you might have seen when buying the car.

 

Sorry if I am wrong but it's just my suspicious mind as far as second hand cars go.

 

Try starting the engine from cold, remove the expansion bottle cap and put a Durex over where the cap screws onto the expansion bottle. If the durex inflates then it is a sure sign that gas (from the combustion system) is getting into the cooling system.