2.0 Hdi Possible Turbo Failure?

[tezp2010]

Ok guys since everyone on this site is really good at what they do and advice they offer, I have a big problem I believe.

my car a 2001 51 reg citroen synergie 2.0 HDI with approx. 154k on clock, tonight seemed to all of a sudden seem a little sluggish, bearing in mind that the turbo wastegate solenoid has been bypassed for approx. 34k with no problems apart from being that bit sluggish this was a whole new ball game, the car seemed to lack considerable power and seemed to struggle to pick upto 40mph then I noticed that being dark a lot of exhaust smoke coming from the car, I assumed it was me at first and that just was normal running smokes, however the problem soon got a whole lot  worse and very quickly, I then noticed that when I got the car back home on any acceleration above 2k rpm it was throwing black smoke out of the exhaust, it then started sounding like there was a possible air/turbo hose off as it sounded a bit like it had an induction kit on it, (sorry best way I can describe it, sounded a bit raunchier I guess, anyways checked everything and couldn't see anything checked the oil and coolant all levels good, no obvious signs of anything traumatic, then it started, the car seemed to run quite warm, engine sounded like it was "pinking" or at least rattling, then the trouble really started, as I was trying to get the car up the hill where we live to our driveway it pretty much gave up, struggled in 1st gear to get above 1500 rpm managed to limp car into driveway, engine running warm now, low speed radiator fan doesn't work so red light flashing, temp well above 95 degrees although not to boiling point, lots of smoke from exhaust, got car on driveway switched it off, checked oil level about 10 mins later and it looks as though there is no oil on the dipstick, bit dark to confirm for definite but when I touched the bottom of the stick it was dry,

so whats the verdict guys? am I up the creek without a paddle or what? I'm guessing the obvious starting answer is that the turbo has given up and that's almost certainly where the oil as gone? unless there is a hole somewhere that I haven't yet spotted, also is there a possibility that assuming I can get help to replace the turbo that the engine is knackered from lack of oil? I didn't get any low oil pressure warning light?

 

also is it possible to remove and replace the turbo with the engine in the car? as it was a pain in the arse doing the cat converter, and I assume its possible but how possible?

many thanks for any advice.

 

thanks

 

Terry

[paul.h]

Sounds as if it is the turbo that has gone. I had one go on a petrol Saab and that surrounded the car in white smoke on a motorway slip road.

 

Should be no need to remove the engine, this is the Citroen service box procedure to remove the turbo:

Remove :

• The reaction link (1)
• The steering rack heat shield
• The front section of the exhaust

Interpose a wooden block to move the power unit towards the front of the vehicle.

Disconnect the speedometer drive from the gearbox.

 

Disconnect the air and oil pipes (2) and (3).

Remove :

• The clips (4)
• The support bracket (5)
• The nuts (6) (Recover the washers and spacers)
• The turbocharger/exhaust manifold assembly(Section (A) towards the bottom of the vehicle)

ESSENTIAL : Plug the turbocharger inlet and outlet openings.

2. Refitting

Check that no foreign bodies are present :

• In the induction system
• In the exhaust manifold

ESSENTIAL : Always replace the turbocharger securing nuts and the seals.

 

 

Fit the turbocharger.

Lock the nut (7) first.

Continue the fitting operations in the reverse order to removal.

3. Precautions to be taken before starting the engine

Disconnect the electrical stop.

Operate the starter until the engine oil pressure warning light goes out.

Reconnect the electrical stop.

Start the engine and let it run at idle for approximately 30 seconds.

Check all the pipes for leaks.

[tezp2010]

ok as a further update to this problem, the following morning at first light I decided to look at the car, I discovered that although originally I thought the oil had been sucked out of the engine, however on checking the dipstick in the light the oil level was still on the maximum mark, the engine started first turn of the key, but would only accelerate to just over 2000 rpm, it would smoke quite badly (black/grey) but then eventually it decided that it was going to get more and more slower, would then only rev to just about 1500rpm, but the smoke was still there although the best way to describe it now is that it didn't smell of fuel or oil but smelt like some kind of gas? kinda reminded me of and lpg vehicle driving past, I thought I would check and replace the diesel filter for argument sake and for the fact that no one can say its the filter that's dirty, but then the real trouble started, the car started and ran but still would only accelerate to approx. 1500rpm, still the same situation with regards to the smell, ive checked the hoses that I can find and all appear to be attached and clear,

later that day I tried to start the car and it turned over and over and then finally started I scanned the car with a basic scanner and no faults were stored, obviously its not lexia but all I have available,

this morning the car failed to run, it will start and idle for a few seconds at the most and stall, start again and stall around the same time, then if left for a few seconds wont start, when started it does the same again, the filter that I removed was clean as far as I could see,

any advice would be much appreciated? anybody with any experience that if it did come to an engine replacement if there are any factors I need to think of, I wont be doing it myself but family mechanic friend will do it, this is the model with the bosch fuel system so has the low pressure fuel pump in the tank, that can be heard running when the ignition is turned on, I have removed the fuel pipes from the fuel filter housing and turned the ignition on and fuel comes out of the pipes, so the low pressure pump is working, there was no evidence of any bits  that I could see in the filter housing,

bring back the old 1.9td engine simple and straightforward!

thanks again

[Rookie2]

Hi Buddy

 

Thwe following item should be fitted to your engine    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Citroen-C8-Fiat-Ulysse-Peugeot-807-Vacuum-Intake-Butterfly-Swirl-Valve-036394-/142273453965

 

Have alook for it on the front of the cylndet head. The cup end of the arm sticking out of the bottom of it actuates the switlvalve but breakage of it is a very common failure. Make sure the plastic arm wityh the cup is not broken, make sure the cup is attached to the ball on the swirl chamber and make sure that it  operates the swirl with no interference. Without this item working you will get little or no revs from the engine.

 

It's a few years since I did my synergie but I believe the location is something like this http://www.autoextrem.de/attachments/fiat-ulysse-fiat-scudo/52627d1161128475-anomalie-abgasreinigung-2-2-jtd-swirl-ventil02.jpg

 

If the swirl chamber is fitted to your model and is not broken then check for vehicle vacuum leaks. If you have a vacuum leak or a defective vacuum pump, these engine will never run correctly. A hand held vacuum pump is cheap and wll worthwhile having.

 

Take a look at your turbo and see if the waste gate actuator opens and closes correctly, make sure the small rubber vacuum pipe to the turbo is connected and not leaking.. You stated you had had the waste gate removed previously, did you mean you had the EGR removed ?

 

cheers

[paul.h]

It is possible the code reader you used can not work on your car since it is pre 2004 when diesel engines had to be obd compliant. If not already sorted, I would take your car to a dealer with the correct diagnositic equipment.

[tezp2010]

Hi all sorry for the delay in responding to this post but I've been unable to get in to my account just thought I'd follow up my post regarding the possible turbo failure, eventually after weeks of trying to get the car to run I ended up sending the car to the big grave yard in the sky. Regrettably it just would not run. Garage were unable to pin point the source of the problem. And fund's were not available to keep paying out. Strange situation though as for a few days the car ran all be it roughly miss firing. But the exhaust fumes stunk. But strangely it was grey/blue/white smoke that smelt like Lpg fumes. Then it would start run for a few seconds and cut out. Was advised it could be the HP fuel pump. Thanks again for the advice.