C5 2009 Tourer No Power To Rear 12V Socket And Tail Lift

[Chrisc5v6]

Hi fellow citroen c5 drivers.

Im straight in with a question as its driving me nuts.

Apoligies if its already here I did look but didnt see it.

I have a citroen c5 v6 tourer estate auto.

I have had it now for coming up to 3 years

Never had a problem with it

Lately I have discovered that the 12 rear socket dosnt work

nor does the tail lift button .

Both located on the right hand side of the rear compartment as you look at it

I have bought one of those emanuals but cannot find what im looking for.

Any kind sole out there know the fuse number and location of theses 2 items.

Much ablidge if you do .

Edited July 26, 2017 by Chrisc5v6

[Chrisc5v6]

Sorry should have said its a 2009 model

(there is no fuse box on the battery)

[paul.h]

I have put your car details in your signature which you can edit if you go to your profile, just saves mentioning it every time you start a topic.

 

In the handbook for the 2009 C5 it gives the tailgate fuse as in the dash fusebox A and fuse G36 30 amp (possibly green). The G fuses are often direct from the battery through a maxi fuse. As you have pointed out, it does not list the rear 12 volt socket fuse for the V6 hdi since you do not have the battery fusebox. In a handbook for the 2010 C5 it gives the rear 12 volt socket as a second fuse F6 25 amp (possibly clear) in the engine fusebox - so maybe the fuse is amongst the others.

 

If the electric tailgate is not working it could be a sign of a low battery voltage, also a sign if eco mode comes in soon.

 

You can see the handbooks on-line but may need to select your language first http://service.citroen.com/ddb/

[Chrisc5v6]

Hi Paul

at the mo I am trying to learn the navigation of the emanual I have downloaded.

from the inputs i have put in so far such as the rear 12 socket is listed with a fuse on the battery f6.

And yet as said there is no fuse box on my battery .

The info I have gained so far dosnt say where the fuses are when its not attached to the battery .

The emanuals are not entirely user friendly and need a lot of practice before you can be confident of what you are doing or seeing.

Thanks for your help.

My thought s at the mo are that there is a fuse box on this car somewhere  that is not part of the engine bay one or the dash one 

its only ident is (f6 in BFDB) which translates to battery fuse box.(there is no battery fuse box)

I feel I'm going round in circles here

I will keep you posted

[Chrisc5v6]

I have just been out and removed the engine fuse board to see what else is in there.THree side clips reease the inner fuse board with disconnecting anything i was able to get it out fare enough to see what was behind and sure enough there are some serios valued fuses like 50 amp down to 20 amp.I should imagine if one of thos was to go.

A. you would here it 

B you would see quite easy which one it was.

However there were no other normal fuses in the box.

Put it all back and went for a ride to test everything was all ok.

So I'm back to square one.

I may just look at some wiring diagrams from later models to see if there are any clues there.

[Chrisc5v6]

What the...... 

I disconnected the battery for 10 secs.

Now this happens 

Unlock the car with key fob clonk ......car unlocks.

open the tailgate, fiddle about after 30 secs

Clonk

the car auto locks with the tail gate open .??????????????

 

Incidently whilst trying to find the fuses I'm looking for . I as you do removed the shunt fuse in the dash fuse board.

I cud not remember where it came out as it has 2 configuration positions. 

which are Dealer and client (I think)

I put it back into client .Everything seem okydoky except the above.

[paul.h]

On Citroens you should not disconnect/reconnect the battery too quickly since time has to be given for the bsi to shut down, otherwise odd electrical problems can occur. The following below from the Common Problems topic has not given me any problems. It could be one of the locking settings has changed, usually if you use the fob to unlock the car but do not open a door within 30 seconds it will lock itself again - possibly there is an option that just lets you open the tailgate and if a door is not also opened within 30 seconds the car will lock itself. Have a look in the handbook to see if there is anything. It might also be removing the shunt fuse has reset the car to factory settings but this is a guess since I have never removed this fuse.

 

16. Odd electrical problems caused by wrong battery disconnection procedure.

If you need to disconnect the battery and not do a BSI reset procedure, I have found the following has not given me any problems on a 2004 and 2007 C5 and a 2003 C3:

- remove the ignition key from the car

- open the bonnet

- wait a few minutes for the BSI to shut down

- disconnect the battery negative terminal

 

When reconnecting

- ignition key out of the car

- reconnect the battery

- wait a few minutes

- insert the key in the ignition and wait a minute

- turn the key to the first position and wait a minute

- turn the key so the dash lights come on and wait a minute

- start the engine

- take the windows down and up to reset the anti pinch

- reset the clock (and radio on the C3).

[Chrisc5v6]

Thanks Paul I will try that tomorrow .

I'm to fed up at the mo with it I've had some of the rear panels open to see if I can see any clues

But alas no joy

The only thing I'm sure of is the 12v rear socket has a pink wire but where goes I know not

Ithink maybe I need to go back to stratch and start again

The common fault was/is the 12v socket and the tailgate raise and lower doesn't work !

 

I did do a fix to the rear wash pipe by finding a narrow tube which fitted up the corrugated pipe which was sticking out about half inch each end I gorilla glued this in both ends and closed the gap with fish tank tube .its working for now .

[MikeLane]

Don't know where the wiring runs on a C5 Tourer but on my brother's Renault Megane Estate wiring to the tailgate runs along the roof lining and one of the wires broke inside the tube near the tailgate hinge where it exits the roof lining and enters the top of the tailgate, stopping him from being able to lock/unlock it.

Might be worth checking on your C5.

[paul.h]

Have you checked the battery voltage ? If it is still on the original it will be 8 years old and due for renewal. If the voltage is down it will prevent the tailgate opening electrically but also if in economy mode the 12 volt socket might not work. Have you tried them with the engine running ?

[Chrisc5v6]

Ok this morning i have gone through all the version of handbooks right up to year 16.As Paul listed above.

 

What I found of interest is that as the manual gets updated it now contains info relating to your car but in a later version .

I found the 2016 containg a whole lot of info that was missing from my manual of  year of 2009 .

Obviously there is a whole load not applicable buts its easy to discern the difference.

I also noticed that pre 2009 the battery fuse is shown.

In 2009 it is not 

And then from 2010 to 2016 the battery fuse info has reappeared but with no more explanation just a coloured picture of the fuses suggesting they are in the engine bay fuse box.???????????

Also not all circuits are listed as you would expect as its a historical record that has just been copied through each year 

 

Around 2012 the handbook is presented in a PDF format and you have to open it via the icon in the top right corner.

 

I may get my wife to print out the 2016 version as sure does have a lot more relevant info in it . Only its 200 pages. 

[paul.h]

Looking in the French RTA manual for the 2008 on C5, your car has several fuseboxes and the handbook might not give all of them.

 

There is a battery fusebox BFBD which is on the wing/behind the headlight and possibly might be red coloured. Your car is not supposed to have this fusebox since I think your battery is in the boot but there might be something on your car since it has fusible links as well as the fuses F6 to F9  and it is fuse F6 25 amp which is listed as the rear 12 volt socket and coffre (French for boot ?).

 

Then the engine fusebox BSM (PSF1) which also contains the maxi fuses which are not usually listed in the handbook but you mentioned them in post 5.

 

The dash fusebox which has 3 sections, the top row of 12 fuses is the BFH12 with fuses G29 to G40, the right side 5 fuses is the BFH1 with fuses G36 to G40 and the bottom row of fuses is the BSI1 with possibly 17 fuses F1 to F17. 

[Chrisc5v6]

Hi Paul

I have just had a look and look what I find behind the left hand headlight.

it has the smallest diagram possible on its side  I shall need bigger glasses 

I cant actually see if  it the one........ but it must be .

And like you say and the literature says it shouldn't be there .

I have not seen anything in any diagram to say its there or what it is 

Whether there are fuses in side I will have to wait until tomorrow to find out .

Once again thanks for your help

Chris 

[Chrisc5v6]

blown up

[Chrisc5v6]

if the BFDB is fitted to my car where is it ?....................I don't think its the device above

If it is not fitted to my car what took its place?

 

Paul you already posted this in another thread

 

 

"This is from the RTA C5 manual for the 2008 C5 (ISBN 9782726873755  http://www.amazon.co...8/dp/2726873758 ):

BFDB - boitier fusibles depart batterie

F1 40 amp groupe electropumpe - calculateur suspension electrohydraulique (suspension pump and its control)

F2 70 amp biotier de commande pre-postchauffage (glow plugs)

F3 60 amp groupe motoventilateur 2 (radiator fan ?)

F4 100 amp boitier commutation protection 2 relais (relays ?)

F5 30 amp boitier servitude remorque (?)

F6 25 amp prise 12 V arriere + coffre (rear 12 volt socket)

F7 15 amp feux antibrouillard (fog lights)

F8 20 amp bruleur chauffage additionnel (additional heating)

F9 30 amp frein de stationnement electrique (electric handbrake)"

 

So I'm looking for a device with 9 fuses in it, somewhere around the battery if it was fitted to the front (which it is not its in the rear of the car left side)

It maybe these are the fusible links on the back of the under bonnet ones ,awkward to get at. 

 

 

And if anyone uses the online manual when you call up a wiring diagram press the print button but don't print you will get another window with a  lot more info associated with your diagram.

Edited August 2, 2017 by Chrisc5v6

[Chrisc5v6]

These are the fuses under the normal fuse box 

 

And this is the fuse box under the bonnet 

and the unknown gadget is on the right

[Chrisc5v6]

I found this picture its not my car but it shows the elusive BFDB fuse box

now I know what I'm looking for 

 

(Credit to unknown poster on google for the photo)

Edited August 2, 2017 by Chrisc5v6

[Chrisc5v6]

In place of the DFDB box as shown above  I have a differentnt looking gadget in apperance 

opening it up shows this 

[Chrisc5v6]

And I think I have now found BFDB exactly where it should be on top of the battery 

but the fuses are a different type to usual these are held in by nuts.

There would appear to be 4 in there.

its started raining so I have had to come in 

Edited August 2, 2017 by Chrisc5v6

[paul.h]

Have you tried the tailgate opening with the engine running ?

 

By the time you have sorted this you will the the UK expert on C5 fuses outside of the Citroen dealership. Our C4 has a fusebox on top of the battery and recently it lacked acceleration which turned out to be a fault in this fusebox, found under warranty by the dealer by the U fault code generated.

 

If your emanual does not have wiring diagrams these are part of the Citroen Service box (available through ebay on 3 dvds) but you need to use your VIN and RPO to see ones specific to your car. A dealer has access to them but I can not imagine them letting you have a copy.

[Chrisc5v6]

This info is taken from the 2010 handbook and not my one as its not listed in my one 

notice the fuse number starts at F6

 

Fuse N°      Rating      Function     

F6      25 A    Rear 12 V socket (max power: 100 W)   

F7      15 A    Foglamps   

F8      20 A    Additional burner (Diesel)   

F9      30 A    Electric parking brake

 

This is the diagram taken from citroen online manuals which runs under windows xp you have to have a virtual window and its not easy to cut and paste 

Citroen Service

Electrical drawing for diagnosis and repair (SEDRE)4.6.0

 

It cost me £9.99 to download .Paul is this the same as what you mention

 

Cp05 is the rear 12v socket

Famous last words I conclude that this now relates to the fuses on top of the battery which equals 4 off .

But you cant get your head in enough to read if they have any numbers .

 

Paul I disconnected the battery for 10 mins and no change (I didn't follow your example but will do today as its not raining)

 

I  am wondering does my radio have a code that is lost after x amount of time 

as I do not have a  code.

In the 2 times I have disconnected the battery for short times  the radio was ok. 

Edited August 3, 2017 by Chrisc5v6

[Chrisc5v6]

The device behind the left headlight on the wing wall  is "Relay 3 protection switch unit BCP3".

 

I have just been out and checked the battery fuses and the left hand little one is open circuit .

I firmly belief its the fuse I have taken all this time to identify and locate.

now I have to find another one !! 

 

err its orange, err its 30 amp(not 25 amp as listed), err its held in  by nuts, err its on the battery............ . ........................................

Edited August 3, 2017 by Chrisc5v6

[Chrisc5v6]

its this one 

Edited August 3, 2017 by Chrisc5v6

[paul.h]

You might need to use a Citroen dealer to get one of those fuses. I hope it is the right one after all this. Probably it is not mentioned in the handbook to make you go to a dealer, they do this with the maxi fuses, possibly thinking if one of these fuses goes there could be something serious wrong. If your manual includes the parts diagrams you should be able to find the Citroen part no. for the fuse.

 

The 12 volt socket in the wiring diagram takes a feed direct from the battery and through the fuse F6 so you could try just by passing the fuse or removing it and bolting the wire back without a fuse to see if it works. If not wanting to risk the wiring you could link in your own fuse. To check it is the right one, use a magnifying glass to read the wire number and compare it to the wire number on the diagram.

 

The Sedre is the same as in the Citroen service box. I have this but for some reason the diagrams are not showing so I may need to reload it. If you look in it under General and fuses, there should be a list of the BCP3 ones which I think may include the relays for the suspension.

 

Next thing will be to check the diagrams to see why the tailgate is not working if it is not related to the rear socket.

[MikeLane]

(Still think it might be a broken wire in the loom supplying the tailgate.)