Berlingo Diesel Engine Problem

[heraldsteve]

Too late 😊 but thank you for the advice. I've now confirmed the valve timing was spot on. The last time I did the valve timing on a Citroen was on a '92 diesel and it took me around an hour. Looking at the Berlingo manual it appeared to be pretty much identical so undaunted I pressed on. Four hours later I was finished! Everything is so much less accessible on a Berlingo 😊

 

I have tried driving to clear out any gunge and I've covered about 50 miles at a guess. It runs ok on low revs on flat roads, but try to accelerate to keep up with the flow or hit a hill and it's all over - no power and if I try to push it then I get lots of grey smoke and the temperature starts to climb. The signs point to a failed turbo but as it hasn't got one...

 

The garage did run dianostic software which only identified a faulty MAF and EGR (both now replaced) but apparently everything else was normal.

 

Next step is to try the injectors, although I don't think that's the problem as it feels like all four cylinders are flat rather that one limping along.

Edited September 20, 2018 by heraldsteve

[heraldsteve]

Paul H. I've tried two different MAFs, one a cheap copy, the other a branded one (I forget the make but a good one). Unplugging the MAF makes no difference but oddly when it's unplugged I don't get any fault lights either.

[paul.h]

When you start the car does the engine management fault light come on to show the bulb is working ? It should light as the dash lights up and then go out a few seconds once the engine is running and all the sensors have shown normal values.

 

Unplugging the MAF and finding no difference might suggest the car is already in limp mode. Whether the MAF is the problem (or its wiring/connector) I do not know, live data would be needed to see its values.

 

Just thinking of any odd things that could limit power, is the exhaust ok and not blocked ?

[heraldsteve]

Yes the light illuminates at start up so it is working. I don't know if the exhaust is blocked and can't think of a way to check. I suspect it isn't as what would block it so suddenly? It has no problem pushing out the smoke when it's under load 😀

 

I have noticed today it has improved a little and I can get up to 60mph on the flat but less than 40mph on a climb. I've also discovered the air manifold box is badly gunked up from when the EGR failed but also the four seals are perished and almost non-existent so I've ordered a second hand replacement.

 

I also checked the MAF with a multimeter and it is working, ie the voltage output increases with revs.

Edited September 21, 2018 by heraldsteve

[heraldsteve]

Latest update: I haven't tried the crank sensor yet (is there a way to test it?). I was convincing myself the fault lay with the emissions control system so this morning I blocked off the EGR. At first there was loads of black smoke which cleared after a few miles, although I still get it at odd times but always under load. The power has increased but it's still not right, I would estimate I'm still only getting around 80/85% of the power it had before the EGR packed in.

 

Couple of questions to my knowledgeable Citroen friends:

1.What is the device attached to the battery tray that connects via vacuum tubes to the EGR? I don't know what it does but if I disconnect the connector I get the standard malfunction light (engine block symbol).

2. How do you remove the injector at the flywheel end (no 1?). There is an electrical connection to it which prevents me using a socket and there is no room for a spanner. What is the purpose of this connector?

[heraldsteve]

I managed to remove No.1 injector with a bit of messing about but it's fine anyway. Meanwhile the engine is slowly getting worse again â˜¹ï¸ I give up, time to get a new van. Edited September 23, 2018 by heraldsteve

[paul.h]

The device connected to the egr is an electro valve that operates the egr valve when the ecu tells it. It opens/closes to provide vacuum from the vacuum pump to the egr valve. You might be able to test it by disconnecting the egr vacuum pipe and seeing when you can feel a vacuum at the egr side. If it is not air tight at times then maybe it is faulty. Plugging the egr side might give the same result as blanking the egr. Just leaving the pipe open would let a lot of air in to the vacuum system causing poor braking and affecting anything else that uses vacuum. If any of the vacuum pipes are in poor condition and are leaking then they can also give symptoms of an egr fault.

 

The crank sensor either works or not and if not, then the engine would not run. They tend to starting failing as they get hot but will work again as they cool down.

 

This is from the C5 Common Problems topic:

20. EGR fault codes, engine hunting/pulsing, blocked dpf.

Before replacing any parts, make sure the rubber hose connected to it or any other sensors do not have a small split since this can be the fault. See this post as an example http://www.citroen-o...low/#entry77310

 

Blanking off an egr valve fixed the hunting/pulsing for Gary 180259 http://www.citroen-o...909-c5-hunting/

 

It could also be caused by a blocked dpf http://www.citroen-o...ing/#entry95329

[heraldsteve]

Thanks again Paul. I tried to use the van this morning but could only just get to 30mph. I then discovered it would only rev to less than 3k revs even sat on the driveway.

 

Prompted by previous feedback I disconnected the EGR from the manifold so exhaust gases could escape and amazingly it revs perfectly. I removed the exhaust and discovered the cat had loose black matting which has obviously been obstructing the exhaust system. It revs beautifully with no exhaust, although I doubt the neighbours were too pleased 😊

 

So I think I've solved it. Just need to go and order a new cat (it's too noisy to drive to an exhaust centre) and I will update you when I've tested it.

[paul.h]

I hope this is it now since you have spent a lot trying to fix the problem.

[heraldsteve]

Thanks Paul, me too 😀 Thanks to you and everyone else for your help and suggestions. What a great forum this is.

 

I've ordered a replacement cat so hopefully I'll be able to report the outcome by the end of this week.

[heraldsteve]

I think I can safely report the problem is resolved. I've fitted the new cat and it's now driving better than ever. I haven't done many miles yet as I've bought an after market cat and it's not a great fit. I'll be sorting that today and hopefully have my van back in service and ready for work on Monday.

 

Thank you all again for your help and advice 👌

Edited September 29, 2018 by heraldsteve

[paul.h]

It is always good to hear excellent news like this, especially when the possibility of a blocked exhaust was only a guess since you had tried all the obvious things as well as ones from the diagnostic.

 

I have modified the C5 Common Problems topic to include the things you have found out.

20. EGR, MAF fault codes, engine hunting/pulsing, lack of power, blocked dpf, blocked catalyst.

Before replacing any parts, make sure the rubber hose connected to it or any other sensors do not have a small split since this can be the fault. See this post as an example http://www.citroen-o...low/#entry77310

 

Blanking off an egr valve fixed the hunting/pulsing for Gary 180259 http://www.citroen-o...909-c5-hunting/

 

It could also be caused by a blocked dpf http://www.citroen-o...ing/#entry95329

 

Lack of power, poor running, apparent MAF and EGR faults turned out to be a blocked exhaust catalyst in this non turbo diesel Berlingo. See this topic by heraldsteve http://www.citroen-o...engine-problem/

[heraldsteve]

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