Hdi Advice Please

[madrat]

Hi

 

I am thinking of getting a 04-on C5 2.0HDi 138bhp but I am getting conflicting advice about the anti pollution device fitted. Dose this engine use the particulate filter and Eyols fluid that caused so much trouble and costs a fortune to fix or is that only the 2.2 with 173 bhp?

[Johndouglas]

By the time your engine came into being, it probably has the FAP and additive tank. Mine is just a little bit younger and it has the filter. But it's supposed to be good for a 100K.

[madrat]

:rolleyes: not what I wanted to hear.

 

Looks like I will be staying away from Citroen / Pug from now on then ;)

[72dudes]

:rolleyes: not what I wanted to hear.

 

Looks like I will be staying away from Citroen / Pug from now on then ;)

 

You may even have to go for a petrol car then!

 

As someone said on another post, nearly all new/recent diesels have the old particulate filter/eolys combo. It's the only way they can cut down on emmissions and meet the Euro IV regulations. However take comfort in the fact that they seem to be far more reliable on the post 04 C5s than the early 2.2HDi's, some of which need attention at 50k.

 

Might also be worth talking to somebody like Warranty Direct, who can advise whether they offer cover for partical filters (they do for ECU problems).

[madrat]

 

Did the early 2.0Hdi's have the same system? Might consider one of those if not.

[72dudes]

[quote However take comfort in the fact that they seem to be far more reliable on the post 04 C5s than the early 2.2HDi's, some of which need attention at 50k.

 

Did the early 2.0Hdi's have the same system? Might consider one of those if not.

 

No, the pre 2004 Mk I 2.0 HDi engine (90/110 bhp) did not have a particulate filter, so this is the one to go for.

 

Personally I'd avoid the 90 bhp version (only available in LX trim) and go for an SX or VTR with the 110 bhp engine. I think they did this engine in Exclusive trim early on, but there are more electrical toys to go wrong!

 

Let us know if you take the plunge....

[madrat]

Brill, trouble is the Mk1 is a bit on the light side for towing. 85% is only 1222kg

 

What is the point of an anti pollution device that causes more pollution to work properly :rolleyes:

 

If I do go for a Mk2 how much are we talking for a re generation should I need one? Is it a Citroen only job?

 

Is it true this fluid is made from water and urea, if so why so expensive?

 

Makes me feel like getting an old 4x4 and bugger the environment ;)

[72dudes]

Brill, trouble is the Mk1 is a bit on the light side for towing. 85% is only 1222kg

 

What is the point of an anti pollution device that causes more pollution to work properly :rolleyes:

 

If I do go for a Mk2 how much are we talking for a re generation should I need one? Is it a Citroen only job?

 

Is it true this fluid is made from water and urea, if so why so expensive?

Too technical for me I'm afraid; I'll let somebody else answer or I'd be guessing.

[Randombloke]

What is the point of an anti pollution device that causes more pollution to work properly :angry:

 

I'm the owner of an early 2.2 HDi and I have to say the lack of particulates in the exhaust, even in the lights of a tail gating car is impressive. It was this soot (or larger particulates, known as PM10s) from older diesels that prompted the legislation to "clean up" diesel power.

 

Whilst a diesel car can have a lot of smoke in the exhaust and still pass the MOT, some of the Citroen techs posting here will tell you that the FAP/DPF cars can be hard pushed to show any detectable particulates on test at all. That's progress.

 

Latest cars are 120,000 between filter and top up.

 

If I do go for a Mk2 how much are we talking for a re generation should I need one? Is it a Citroen only job?

 

Citroen or a qualified indy. Might be worth asking here with a post code for a good indy as several have been mentioned. I paid £144 for the filter and £77 for the fluid plus VAT, for an older 2.2. Ring around the local dealers and ask. If you need an RPN I'm sure you can get one via PM with the excuse to the dealer that you are considering purchasing the car from the present owner.

 

Is it true this fluid is made from water and urea, if so why so expensive?

 

I think it's cerium oxide but I'm not sure.

 

Makes me feel like getting an old 4x4 and bugger the environment :(

 

Unless you are well off it may also bugger your wallet in fuel consumption.

 

I would choose the Exclusive or Exclusive SE in the 2.0 engine with 6 speed box if buying a Mk1 (up to end 04-ish) C5. Most VTRs that early on do not have cruise control.

[madrat]

Well it doesn't sound so bad then at those prices.

 

I still might look around for a euro class 3 car thats on the heavy side with no filter such as a Nissan Primara, but I do like Citroen's.

[seefive]

Well it doesn't sound so bad then at those prices.

 

I still might look around for a euro class 3 car thats on the heavy side with no filter such as a Nissan Primara, but I do like Citroen's.

 

Here's what ebay says when you search for a diesel..

 

 

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If you are considering a Peugeot or Citroen with the 2.2 HDi Diesel engine (or most other HDi models manufactured after around 2001) then you should know that these are fitted with a particulate filter (or FAP as it is sometimes referred) & this filter requires some expensive maintenance. The filter itself is located in front of the catalytic convertor & is intended to keep the emissions ultra low.

 

However, what isn't too widely publicised is the servicing that it requires - the manufacturers recommend replacement at around 75000 miles (or even sooner depending on the type of running that the car has done) at a cost of around £500 (+ labour) for a new filter. It can be replaced with a secondhand (cleaned) unit on an exchange basis for a much lower cost of £130 (+ labour), but this information is seldom volunteered by the dealers! What happens here is that your old filter is removed & sent to France to be extensively cleaned & added to the stockpile of exchange units. If the filter is neglected you will eventually see messages of UNBLOCK DIESEL FILTER on your on board computer which, if ignored, will eventually become ANTI POLLUTION FAULT & will put the car into limp home mode & unable to rev past 2000rpm.

 

The other expensive item is the Eolys fluid that is injected into the filter that is essential to keep the emisions low. It costs approx £20 per litre (only available from main dealers) & if this has been neglected & allowed to run dry will take 5 litres to fill & will also give an annoying DIESEL ADDITIVE MINIMUM LEVEL message on the on board computer.

 

After extensive searching through forums & other informative sources you will find that it is possible to clean your own particulate filter & fill the Eolys fluid yourself, or at a local garage that is familiar with the system, at a fraction of the costs that Peugeot & Citroen dealers charge, but you may find that the DIESEL ADDITIVE MINIMUM LEVEL warning stays & main dealers are very reluctant to get rid of this message for you unless carrying out the entire job themselves.

 

Very few sellers of these vehicles will actually volunteer this information in their descriptions so the onus is on you to ask the right questions before bidding or buying!

[BarbsC1]

Here's what ebay says when you search for a diesel..

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

If you are considering a Peugeot or Citroen with the 2.2 HDi Diesel engine (or most other HDi models manufactured after around 2001) then you should know that these are fitted with a particulate filter (or FAP as it is sometimes referred) & this filter requires some expensive maintenance. The filter itself is located in front of the catalytic convertor & is intended to keep the emissions ultra low.

 

However, what isn't too widely publicised is the servicing that it requires - the manufacturers recommend replacement at around 75000 miles (or even sooner depending on the type of running that the car has done) at a cost of around £500 (+ labour) for a new filter. It can be replaced with a secondhand (cleaned) unit on an exchange basis for a much lower cost of £130 (+ labour), but this information is seldom volunteered by the dealers! What happens here is that your old filter is removed & sent to France to be extensively cleaned & added to the stockpile of exchange units. If the filter is neglected you will eventually see messages of UNBLOCK DIESEL FILTER on your on board computer which, if ignored, will eventually become ANTI POLLUTION FAULT & will put the car into limp home mode & unable to rev past 2000rpm.

 

The other expensive item is the Eolys fluid that is injected into the filter that is essential to keep the emisions low. It costs approx £20 per litre (only available from main dealers) & if this has been neglected & allowed to run dry will take 5 litres to fill & will also give an annoying DIESEL ADDITIVE MINIMUM LEVEL message on the on board computer.

 

After extensive searching through forums & other informative sources you will find that it is possible to clean your own particulate filter & fill the Eolys fluid yourself, or at a local garage that is familiar with the system, at a fraction of the costs that Peugeot & Citroen dealers charge, but you may find that the DIESEL ADDITIVE MINIMUM LEVEL warning stays & main dealers are very reluctant to get rid of this message for you unless carrying out the entire job themselves.

 

Very few sellers of these vehicles will actually volunteer this information in their descriptions so the onus is on you to ask the right questions before bidding or buying!

The used particle filters can be cleaned out by using a steam lance and that is all that is done with them after being removed and sent back to Citroen, but don't get caught doing it, otherwise your local green brigade will burn your house down lol, and to get rid of the minimum level reached try going and filling the tank up with diesel after topping up the eloys but leave the fuel cap off whilst paying for the diesel refit it upon returning run the engine for a minute the switch off for 5 minutes then restart and if the message returns then take it to Citroen, some of the earlier cars ecu's can't reset themselves and will need replacing

[madrat]

some of the earlier cars ecu's can't reset themselves and will need replacing

 

You have to replace to ECU to get rid of a message :) :D :D :o

[72dudes]

try going and filling the tank up with diesel after topping up the eloys but leave the fuel cap off whilst paying for the diesel refit it upon returning run the engine for a minute the switch off for 5 minutes then restart and if the message returns then take it to Citroen,

 

What's the thinking here BarbsC1?

 

If you leave the cap off and start up, then the tank will not be dosed with eloys??

(as the magnets in the fuel cap "instruct" the fluid to be dosed)

[BarbsC1]

What's the thinking here BarbsC1?

 

If you leave the cap off and start up, then the tank will not be dosed with eloys??

(as the magnets in the fuel cap "instruct" the fluid to be dosed)

I think you will find that when the cap is removed that triggers the dozing as the system is looking for the magnets I've gone now I am back sequence leaving it off whilst you pay for the fuel is the correct procedure helps to reset the level problem as I said refit it before stating then run for one minute switch off and wait for 5 minutes hopefully it will reset this is the exact procedure as instructed by Ctroen, apart from resetting the fluid useage counter in the Ecu which we can't do

[BarbsC1]

You have to replace to ECU to get rid of a message :( :o :o :o

Not true if that's what you have been told go to a non rip off garage

[Randombloke]

Just to clarify, as a reliable Citroen tech has posted here before:

 

There are a very small number of early C5s, with DPF/Eolys at 50,000 miles where the Eolys ECU cannot be reset and must be replaced. Cost is about £80.

 

If you want to find the post then the quickest route may be to look at all postings by kfk or iannez.

 

I would also add that vehicle sellers on eBay make the problem worse as some of them expect you to bid on and pay for a vehicle without prior inspection. They sat things like "any problem we refund the deposit", "check our feedback", "when you come to inspect if it is not as described we cancel the sale" etc. eBay knows much less about HDi than our resident Citroen techs, top blokes.

 

I inspected some C5s that made me afraid, the state they were in.......

 

After an Eolys/DPF service there is a recommendation to put a minimum of 10 litres in the tank ASAP.

[BarbsC1]

Just to clarify, as a reliable Citroen tech has posted here before:

 

There are a very small number of early C5s, with DPF/Eolys at 50,000 miles where the Eolys ECU cannot be reset and must be replaced. Cost is about £80.

 

If you want to find the post then the quickest route may be to look at all postings by kfk or iannez.

 

I would also add that vehicle sellers on eBay make the problem worse as some of them expect you to bid on and pay for a vehicle without prior inspection. They sat things like "any problem we refund the deposit", "check our feedback", "when you come to inspect if it is not as described we cancel the sale" etc. eBay knows much less about HDi than our resident Citroen techs, top blokes.

 

I inspected some C5s that made me afraid, the state they were in.......

 

After an Eolys/DPF service there is a recommendation to put a minimum of 10 litres in the tank ASAP.

Anyone need advice my husband is a Citreon Tech feel free to send messages