Wheel Alignment On Full Lock; Are All C5 Thus Afflicted?

[cjard]

I have to say, I dont like the way this car handles. Nothing about the way it goes round corners inspires me with any confidence. My biggest issue is with the steering; I know when a car is understeering, and I'm sensitive to the tell tale signs of the front end of a car stepping out on a wet road.. This C5 seems to do it too often, and at very low speeds compared to every other car i've driven. On the multi-storey car park near where I work, the exit ramps require use of full lock and on a wet day the car will actually jump sideways trying to negotiate the bend. On dry gravel car parks, as a test, I crawled forward in 1st gear with the engine idling then put full left lock on and drove round in a semi circle. The depth of the groove in the gravel where the wheel had pushed the gravel to one side indicated to me that something is really awry with the steering geometry on extremes of lock.

 

Citroen say the alignment of the wheels is perfect, and indeed the tyres dont seem to have any abnormal wear on them at all, but this car just doesnt go round corners with any certainty. Is this a known characteristic of these cars, or is there something I can do to improve matters?

[Guest Chilie]

I have noticed that when I pull out of a parking space with full lock on in the wet the front wheels do slip a little. I dont have any issues under normal driving or cornering though and my tyre wear is even across both front wheels so im kind of thinking its just the way it is. For me its only when I pull away from a standing start with full lock so no reall worries.

[Guest Chilie]

I have noticed that when I pull out of a parking space with full lock on in the wet the front wheels do slip a little. I dont have any issues under normal driving or cornering though and my tyre wear is even across both front wheels so im kind of thinking its just the way it is. For me its only when I pull away from a standing start with full lock so no real worries.

[Randombloke]

Mine has a very minor issue as indicated by other members at very low speeds and on full lock only. I wonder if it has anything to do with the diff as the car does not seems to suffer from torque steer or understeer at speed. It may be that with a very torquey diesel some sort of limited slip diff is needed to prevent one or other front wheel spinning and the ASR intervening.

 

I've got H3+ on mine and find the cornering is inspiring, given the quality of ride. Body roll is far better more expensive marques with hard rides.

 

There is a tiny bit of wheel scuffing on full lock, either in forward or reverse.

 

What tyres are you using?

 

I'm on Dunlop SP2000.

[72dudes]

There is a tiny bit of wheel scuffing on full lock, either in forward or reverse.

 

Agreed, usually most noticeable on gravel. Has never got any worse so does not bother me.

 

In terms of general handling, it's not a sports car, but I find it rarely understeers unless you're really provoking it. Initial turn-in is fairly sluggish, but I find outright grip is decent, even in the wet. Definitely not a car to chuck around, but I'm happy to forego that for cruising ability and comfort. As Randombloke suggests, your tyres may be to blame?

 

Unlike Randombloke, I prefer to leave mine in "Normal" mode, as I find that when in "Sport", the car tends to hop a bit in mid corner, especially on scarred or poor surfaces. I once pushed the Sport button mid way through a fast roundabout, and got plenty of tyre squealing as the computer tried to work out what was happening!

[72dudes]

Citroen say the alignment of the wheels is perfect, and indeed the tyres dont seem to have any abnormal wear on them at all, but this car just doesnt go round corners with any certainty. Is this a known characteristic of these cars, or is there something I can do to improve matters?

 

 

Apart from alignment, did they check toe in/toe out (I think that's right) - i.e. how the wheel sits in the vertical plane?

 

I remember 2CVs and Dyanes used to look as though the wheels were coming off on full lock due to some unusual geometry. Perhaps there is an element of this on C5s?

 

Another thought. Ride height can be varied by computer, there are something like 145 steps between lowest and highest. If on the normal height setting your car is riding a little too low (or high), the suspension/steering may not be working optimally, so maybe worth a check against parameters (which any dealer or good specialist will have).

[Johndouglas]

Apart from alignment, did they check toe in/toe out

 

Aren't they the same thing? Maybe you mean camber angle.

[72dudes]

Aren't they the same thing? Maybe you mean camber angle.

 

Absolutely right, apologies!

[cjard]

I'll see if I can get a different garage (who know how to check alignments) to check the setup. On full lock there is a pronounced lean on the inside tyre, but I'm sure this is a design consideration and Mercedes do it too. My Mitsubishi GTO does it a little but doesnt have any slow issues.. I'll take a crayon and rub the tyre face with it when I go to Asda, few circles in the carpark should be able to feel which way the tyre is scrubbing..

 

What concerns me is that that the car will change direction slightly if cornering at speed and I hit a puddle with the outside wheel; the loss of grip and lube from the water added to the push from the inside wheel make the car step out a little and though nowhere as significant as the Merc E-Class I drove recently that had a worn suspension bush (somewhere, not sure where; it wasnt me that fixed it) it's not desirable!

It definitely doesnt "dance" though, like the mondeo I had; I'd fitted some replacement wishbones to try and stop a clunking fron the suspension, and the pattern ones didnt sit right in their cups, pushing the wheels 6 degrees out of alignment on each side which also altered the camber because the car was effectively "standing on tiptoes" it was truly, truly horrible to drive.. And it doesnt seem to scrub, which is the best indicator of whether tracking is correct..

I just wondered if citroen got the geometry wrong at the extremes of lock.. Will go do some scrub tests..

[Ronin]

My C5 does this a little bit too on very low speed (below 5mph) and full lock. I presume its because the suspension geometry is at such an extreme angle and doesnt affect the general road holding in any other way.

I would suggest taking your car to a local tyre and exhaust specialist (not any of the big firms as they will sting you).

A local firm with wheel laser alignment is your best solution (£25). They will check camber, castor, toe in & toe out as well as tracking. If something is wrong it will show up, trust me.

 

A tip that improves general road holding, tyre wear and fuel economy that I have used over the years is to actually ignore the recommended tyre pressures (on the door frame).

 

They are often out of date and dont take into account different weights of the car ( there is 300 kg difference between a full tank on a v6 compared to an empty tank on a 1.8). So in effect with 2 passengers etc it could be as much difference as 500 kg (one tyre pressure fits all? I don't think so!)

 

I use a rule of thumb I call "-10%" .... Look on the side of the tyre for the maximum safe tyre pressure and reduce that amount by 10%. It's a good starting point and then over the weeks you can adjust 2psi at a time up or down to get the best feel for your driving style and economy.

 

I found on my Alfa 156 2.5 v6 was having unusual tyre wear on the outside edge and centre even though I was setting it at 32psi for a single occupant etc. and checking it every week. I used the -10% rule which gave me 29psi and to my amazment the car was transformed in handling and fuel economy went up +2 mpg. Hope it helps