2.0 Hdi Sluggish?

[Guest Dervman]

Hi,

 

Seem to have an intermittent fault - owned the car about 6 weeks now.

 

The car doesn't seem to feel like it has any go, I've replaced the airfilter, and last 2 fill ups I've used RedEx in the tank as well. General driving, I'm getting around 40-42mpg and last weekend did a long run and got 48. Again another long run, and 540 miles later the trip is saying 140 to empty... So economy is not suffering.

 

Today, it felt the perkiest it ever has.

 

What I am getting is a symptom like I've left the turbo at home!!

 

I pull off and it's just not responsive - Bury the pedal, and it feels like I'm braking, not accelerating. Between 2500 and 3000 rpm it will suddenly get a loud turbo whistle and take off like a stung horse!

 

I've seen on the forum people mention a valve (egr or erg?) - is this is the thing? I've tried a search and can't find anything.

 

Any help on diagnostics (what can I do to check etc) would be helpful. Home mechanics is not an issue for me.

 

TIA,

 

Derv.

[coastline taxis]

Hi,

 

Seem to have an intermittent fault - owned the car about 6 weeks now.

 

The car doesn't seem to feel like it has any go, I've replaced the airfilter, and last 2 fill ups I've used RedEx in the tank as well. General driving, I'm getting around 40-42mpg and last weekend did a long run and got 48. Again another long run, and 540 miles later the trip is saying 140 to empty... So economy is not suffering.

 

Today, it felt the perkiest it ever has.

 

What I am getting is a symptom like I've left the turbo at home!!

 

I pull off and it's just not responsive - Bury the pedal, and it feels like I'm braking, not accelerating. Between 2500 and 3000 rpm it will suddenly get a loud turbo whistle and take off like a stung horse!

 

I've seen on the forum people mention a valve (egr or erg?) - is this is the thing? I've tried a search and can't find anything.

 

Any help on diagnostics (what can I do to check etc) would be helpful. Home mechanics is not an issue for me.

 

TIA,

 

Derv.

Hi i take it that youve got no fault codes showing up.Id probally start by changing the fuel filter then checking all the pipes to the turbo and all the clips securing them even taken them off one by one and checking for blockages by blowing thru them. think if it was your egr valve the car would through up a anti pollution fault. Does the same happen when reving the engine or just under load

[old'uns]

Hi i take it that youve got no fault codes showing up.Id probally start by changing the fuel filter then checking all the pipes to the turbo and all the clips securing them even taken them off one by one and checking for blockages by blowing thru them. think if it was your egr valve the car would through up a anti pollution fault. Does the same happen when reving the engine or just under load

 

in the last 2 years mine was playing up, sluggish, power on/off all the usual things but it never threw up any codes or mesages at all. had EGR cleaned several times, no better. last service changed MAF, cured it.

my fuel consumption never really altered too much from when i had it, but now does 550-600 per tank as against 500-550

[mlkey]

in the last 2 years mine was playing up, sluggish, power on/off all the usual things but it never threw up any codes or mesages at all. had EGR cleaned several times, no better. last service changed MAF, cured it.

my fuel consumption never really altered too much from when i had it, but now does 550-600 per tank as against 500-550

 

Mine was EGR. Sometimes had power, sometimes did not. Usually accompanied by some smoke out of the exhaust when power is lacking, sometimes it accelerates in surges. It was all down to the EGR. I just blanked off the vacuum pipe and it was cured. Went from getting about 40mpg to regular 60's on the motorway.

 

Hope that helps.

[techbod]

EGR can be a pain but just blocking the vacuum line doesn't do much, you can blank it off though but the engine has to be left over night and next day dont even put the keys in the ignition because if you turn the key on then it will see the EGR valve and set it so its know its default setting.

 

you can buy or make a plate up to fit between the EGR valve and block and this like shows you what I mean

http://images.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&am...plate&gbv=2

 

remember though the engine has to be cold and unstarted/not cranked/key not put in :P

[mlkey]

EGR can be a pain but just blocking the vacuum line doesn't do much,

 

Worked fine for me. As long as the valve is not stuck open, it has the same effect as blanking.

[Guest Dervman]

Hi i take it that youve got no fault codes showing up.Id probally start by changing the fuel filter then checking all the pipes to the turbo and all the clips securing them even taken them off one by one and checking for blockages by blowing thru them. think if it was your egr valve the car would through up a anti pollution fault. Does the same happen when reving the engine or just under load

 

No faults are showing, though every now and again, when I turn the key i get "economy mode on" show on the display. Switch off, back on and doesn't show again.

 

When the car is very cold (not the last week!), I get when cold a very loud, shrill whistle for the 1st 10 mins, not all the time, but on overrun and at certain revs. Not like the turbo (pleasant) whistle, but much louder and shriller. Reminded me of the noise made by old td transit vans!

 

Someone else mentioned a MAF, what's this?

 

Thanks all for the responses!

[mlkey]

Someone else mentioned a MAF, what's this?

 

Thanks all for the responses!

 

MAF = Mass Air Flow Meter/Sensor, I thought that was the cause of my issues too, but in the end it all came down to the EGR. It did not flag any fault codes / lights, just poor performance when it decided to stick. The vacuum pipes are located under a plastic shield up against the bulkhead in the nearside corner of the engine bay, just need to trace with one goes to the EGR. It takes two minutes to disconnect (blank off the pipe and solenoid with some insulation tape while you try it), and if it does not make a difference, you can easily reconnect. Afraid I can not help with the MAF, as I never had to investigate it on mine. I would check the EGR before the MAF, as it is the easier to check, and a very common problem.

 

Mike.

[coastline taxis]

No faults are showing, though every now and again, when I turn the key i get "economy mode on" show on the display. Switch off, back on and doesn't show again.

 

When the car is very cold (not the last week!), I get when cold a very loud, shrill whistle for the 1st 10 mins, not all the time, but on overrun and at certain revs. Not like the turbo (pleasant) whistle, but much louder and shriller. Reminded me of the noise made by old td transit vans!

 

Someone else mentioned a MAF, what's this?

 

Thanks all for the responses!

Sounds like youve got a air leak. always start with the cheapest solution first

[techbod]

Worked fine for me. As long as the valve is not stuck open, it has the same effect as blanking.

 

an understanding on how the EGR system works is essential so I wont go into any major detail because its on the Internet ;)

[mlkey]

an understanding on how the EGR system works is essential so I wont go into any major detail because its on the Internet ;)

 

Yes indeed, did not intend to give the impression I was dismissing your advice, sorry if it sounded that way. Does nearly 30 years in the motor trade including the last ten years at a world class 4x4 manufacturer (where they incidentally have an awful lot of EGR issues) count for nothing these days? ;)

[Guest Dervman]

Yes indeed, did not intend to give the impression I was dismissing your advice, sorry if it sounded that way. Does nearly 30 years in the motor trade including the last ten years at a world class 4x4 manufacturer (where they incidentally have an awful lot of EGR issues) count for nothing these days? ;)

 

Hehehe I can guess the company - had one. I've changed it for a Japanese 'indestructible' 4x4 - nicer than the previous 4x4xfar, but keeps melting its injectors (the one destructible bit). Amazing thing is the old one did 25-27 mpg, and this thing (3.0 and size of a RR) is returning 30-32mpg. The C5 is my 'business car', self-employed and all I can afford (honest!) - brings no attention to itself, and I can happily leave it in train station car parks with no more attention than the odd parking scratch/knock.

 

My only real complaint with the C5 is how uncomfortable the seats are (no back support), but just bought a lumbar support, so should get better now.

 

Anyhow, to everyone - I appreciate your comments and given me good reason to go take a look under the bonnet this weekend.

[techbod]

advice is given freely to accept is your choice ( would I be offended if some one with experience as you have ) absolutely not ;) any way you have a few years left to catch me up lol ;)

[Guest Dervman]

advice is given freely to accept is your choice ( would I be offended if some one with experience as you have ) absolutely not ;) any way you have a few years left to catch me up lol ;)

 

And judging by your eyes, you've stared at one EGR to many ROTFLOL!! ;)

 

Off to strip egr off my engine and see what happens. Though just filled up and made 637 miles before filling up.

[mlkey]

And judging by your eyes, you've stared at one EGR to many ROTFLOL!! ;)

 

Off to strip egr off my engine and see what happens. Though just filled up and made 637 miles before filling up.

 

Don't want to paint the picture of driving tooooooo slowly but.... on my daily commute from Northampton to Solihull, I get between 800 and 900 miles to a tank every time. I am very impressed with the economy of these cars.

[techbod]

q

[mlkey]

my avatar is a 2 stroke cylinder head the old days you probably don't know what that is lol im not here as a teacher just diagnostics ( and bloody good ) so be warned ;)

Well, being as you seem to be intent on justifying your knowledge, I may as well introduce myself properly being new here..

 

Did my mechanical apprenticeship when I left school, moved shortly after from cars to motorbikes, mainly Honda and Yamaha, did those for a couple of years. Owned a Yahama RD500 and many others, so yes I know all about 2 strokes and crankcase lubrication, reeds and induction, powervalves etc.. Then back to cars, working for Rover, then Citroen and finally Nissan, before moving to work for Tickford Engineering in Milton Keynes. Was an engineer heavily involved in the design of the Ford RS Focus, developing the engine and bolting turbos and intercoolers in, hollow driveshafts and much more.. Head hunted and accepted a place on the Jaguar F type project in 2001, shame it was canned due to budget, was a beast in the making, it may be out of mothballs very soon! And then eventually over to LR, playing with lots of diesels and engines having 2 EGR's... double the fun...

 

Have a great day!

[techbod]

I served my time with jag but it was a sweat shop then Ive advanced since them but still remember the old days and the new days because it was a need to know, jag put me through an intensive course for free on the new cars as many companies did and I still have ties with the company, Ill never forget my grounding ;)

 

very impressive back ground there mlkey but seriously it wasn't my intention to prove my self in any way or bring anyone down ( I know there are many very qualified techs on many sites ) who's aim is to gain brownie points but im past that so no disrespect intended.

have a great day indeed ;)

[Guest Dervman]

I served my time with jag but it was a sweat shop then Ive advanced since them but still remember the old days and the new days because it was a need to know, jag put me through an intensive course for free on the new cars as many companies did and I still have ties with the company, Ill never forget my grounding ;)

 

very impressive back ground there mlkey but seriously it wasn't my intention to prove my self in any way or bring anyone down ( I know there are many very qualified techs on many sites ) who's aim is to gain brownie points but im past that so no disrespect intended.

have a great day indeed ;)

 

Hey guys - chilllllllll!!! ;) Go stand in the showers next to one another. Both got impressive records there. Mines IT, and equally impressive (but not an IT forum, so I won't bore you all).

 

I like old (proper) cars - and a (proper) jag nut. To date I've restored and driven a 1972 XJ6, and 1978 XJS V12 (I like the smell of the leather and wood ok!?). Originally bought the XJ6 as a donor for a kit (Marlin), was an mot failure (bodywork and welding), but when I saw the condition of the interior (pristine), just had to restore it. Glad I did, I loved every minute with it.

 

XJS was a similar story. When bought, was still (just) legal - drove it for 3 months with a live rear, until I realised that was because the mountings had rusted away, and the prop was the only thing keeping it joined to the car!!!

 

Oh the good old days!

[techbod]

yes im into the older cars because they have history and the jag is one of them the good old days is still with me because you can do things the new cars take away from you like diagnostics so it becomes an expense on its own ( it nice to do it ) but give me the old carburetor any day ;)

 

Ill draw a line at the shower thing though lol

[coastline taxis]

yes im into the older cars because they have history and the jag is one of them the good old days is still with me because you can do things the new cars take away from you like diagnostics so it becomes an expense on its own ( it nice to do it ) but give me the old carburetor any day :)

 

Ill draw a line at the shower thing though lol

Anybody want to see my 200 yard swimming certificate

[techbod]

you got the other one :o I wondered who got it :)

 

do the certificates really count ( not the swimming ones lol )? I know lots of people who are really good if not better at mechanics than those who are time served because they are into everything and not restricted like in the trade and make things happen the real tech is not permitted due to regulations unless its there own car of course and out side of the company :) so its a case of respect where its deserved not the amount of certs we have

[coastline taxis]

you got the other one :o I wondered who got it :)

 

do the certificates really count ( not the swimming ones lol )? I know lots of people who are really good if not better at mechanics than those who are time served because they are into everything and not restricted like in the trade and make things happen the real tech is not permitted due to regulations unless its there own car of course and out side of the company :) so its a case of respect where its deserved not the amount of certs we have

Your right there. anyway has anybody got any experience with the ELM327 as the missus has just got me one of ebay. Ive already got a snapon ethos and it does the job fine.

Elm

1 what does it do (dont say it reads codes )

2 Are they any good

3 how reliable are they

4 How do i get the bloody thing on my pc

[techbod]

ELM327 is ok but depends if its serial ( best type ) or USB, software if free and doesnt do much but you should get a disk with it for a serial converter to USB ( that's why the serial is better ) it can get complicated if your not into computers because you have to set the comms port which you get a reminder when you load the software up.

totally useless on the Citroen but heard very good with most other cars I have both cereal and USB and they work well with engine management so you would need the fully licenced software from ELM for that same as VAG tool ( mainly designed for the newer cars with CAN bus ) but works on the fords

[ando7p]

First off - don't just block the EGR. CAN be prone to causing excessive temperatures in the head department under extreme conditions, leading to cracked blocks, etc. Not a common fault, but it has been known. Best to clean or replace.

 

Secondly - just bought an ELM327 unit myself. The one I have is a serial to USB. Had to reconfigure the comms ports but the lappy now sees (as does the software) the ELM interface. On connecting to the C5 the software simply tells me it cannot determine or find the ECU.

 

I have several different pieces of software including ProScan, Scanmaster, Digimoto and ScanTool. All basically give the same response. Any ideas?? I was 'reliably' informed that the ELM would interface with the C5 (2.0 hdi 52 plate).