Problems With Citroen - Cam Belt Failure

[Guest Pam C8]

To cut a very very long story short, I had a C8 with a broken cambelt. The car was in the garage 3 months and my final invoice was for £4995.11 to get it fixed (more details can be found on the C8 section as there is a lengthy discussion thread on the go there). Citroen in Slough refused to assist, accept liability or take any responsibility for repair or the costs. For those of you experiencing problems with Citroen, may I suggest the following:

 

1. Keep a note of every date, time and person you speak to - after 3 months it gets confusing

2. Contact Citroen UK Limited, 221 Bath Road, Slough, SL1 4BA - detail your issue in full and clearly state what you want them to do. You can ask for a written response within a certain timeframe - i.e. 7 days. If you state that you are lodging a complaint, they should give you a reference number.

3. Contact robert.parry@vosa.gov.uk and ask for a Vehicle Safety Defect Report. I completed this and returned it to Robert. Their investigations with Citroen are still ongoing

4. Contact watchdog@bbc.co.uk

5. Contact your local trading standards office to report the complaint. Specifically ask that they refer/forward on your complaint to the local trading standards office in Slough - this is the closest office to the Citroen head office. If they get enough complaints about a similar issue then they may be obliged to get in touch with Citroen to investigate further.

6. For those of you in Scotland - contact The Sunday Post at rawdeal@sundaypost.com ....... they were kind enough to make enquiries on my behalf but sadly Citroen wouldnt budge! Again, perhaps if Citroen get contacted often enough they will start to listen.

7. Describe the issues you have been having on the Review Centre site and 'rate' the car - reviewcentre.com

8. Contact your local Consumer Direct office

9. Check for Recall notices on the VOSA website

10. Find out if Citroen are members of your local Motor Trade Association. They are not members of the Scottish Motor Trade Association (or not at this time - they may become members in the future?).

11. Consider getting an independent vehicle assessment and report done

12. Relating to the above - you must specifically ask your garage to retain all the parts that they are taking off your car. The broken parts off any car are crucual to the independent assessor. If parts are not under warranty and you do not specifically request the garage to keep them then they may dispose of them and this may be you evidence

13. Remember that Citroen, Fiat and Peugeot use the same engines in some of their cars

14. Maybe your local Citizens Advice Bureau may be able to help

15. Check to see if your car insurance can cover you in any way. Most car insurance is for accidental damage only and will not cover you for mechanical failure....but worth checking.

16. If you bought the car recently then you may have repair/replace rights under the Sale of Goods Act 17. As a consumer you have more rights or options if you use Hire Purchase and credit cards. You have fewer rights/options if you pay for a car with a loan from the Bank or on a debit card.

18. Your case will be strengthened if you have bought the car from a Citroen dealership and maintained a full Citroen Service History.

19. And make sure you create a thread and update it on this site - its a fantastic source of information and there are some really knowledgeable people on the site that have given me great advice over the last 3 months. It's also really useful for people that are just starting out with an issue - its a great reference source.

20. C8 specifically - for broken cam belts/timing belts - there seemingly was a recall notice for a scuttle panel to be fitted on the 2003-2005 models because water off the windshield was draining into the engine cavity and onto the timing belts/pulleys. Part number 8248.71 is the same for Citroen and Peugeots.

21. For the C8's the maintenance manual states that the timing belt only needs changed (for the HDi engine) every 100,000 miles or 10 years. Despite mine breaking at 57,000 miles and 5 years old, Citroen state that these are only guidelines and not guarantees. Its been suggested to me that the timing belt should in fact be changed at approx 50,000 miles.

 

I for one thank everyone that has helped me here.... very much appreciated.

 

I hope the above is of use in some way ....certainly a bit of a checklist that I have used.

 

Like I've said elsewhere.. as single lone voices we are not being heard....perhaps if Citroen start hearing of GROUPS of people with the same problem they may start to sit up and take notice.

 

I wish you luck !

[Guest THE BUS DRIVER]

Hi I'm the latest person to have this problem .C8 47'000 miles cambelt failure,full service history.

Citreon uk have made an offer of replacement engine and injectors ,with me paying for everything else (even the oil!!),i turned this down as i thought it was outrageous.

However they are well aware that this vehicle is used by a profoundly disabled child ,hence the need for a C8 conversion,and we can't manage without it.

The dealership have negotiated on my behalf ,as when i ring Citreon they will not speak to me.

The result is that they have agreed to pay for the parts but i must pay the labour £1650 which makes me feel sick as none of this is my fault.

Unfortunatly i must get the car back so that my daughter can get out and about, i just hope the next person that this happens to is the head of trading standards and then maybe something will be done!

 

Thanks fiona

To cut a very very long story short, I had a C8 with a broken cambelt. The car was in the garage 3 months and my final invoice was for £4995.11 to get it fixed (more details can be found on the C8 section as there is a lengthy discussion thread on the go there). Citroen in Slough refused to assist, accept liability or take any responsibility for repair or the costs. For those of you experiencing problems with Citroen, may I suggest the following:

 

1. Keep a note of every date, time and person you speak to - after 3 months it gets confusing

2. Contact Citroen UK Limited, 221 Bath Road, Slough, SL1 4BA - detail your issue in full and clearly state what you want them to do. You can ask for a written response within a certain timeframe - i.e. 7 days. If you state that you are lodging a complaint, they should give you a reference number.

3. Contact robert.parry@vosa.gov.uk and ask for a Vehicle Safety Defect Report. I completed this and returned it to Robert. Their investigations with Citroen are still ongoing

4. Contact watchdog@bbc.co.uk

5. Contact your local trading standards office to report the complaint. Specifically ask that they refer/forward on your complaint to the local trading standards office in Slough - this is the closest office to the Citroen head office. If they get enough complaints about a similar issue then they may be obliged to get in touch with Citroen to investigate further.

6. For those of you in Scotland - contact The Sunday Post at rawdeal@sundaypost.com ....... they were kind enough to make enquiries on my behalf but sadly Citroen wouldnt budge! Again, perhaps if Citroen get contacted often enough they will start to listen.

7. Describe the issues you have been having on the Review Centre site and 'rate' the car - reviewcentre.com

8. Contact your local Consumer Direct office

9. Check for Recall notices on the VOSA website

10. Find out if Citroen are members of your local Motor Trade Association. They are not members of the Scottish Motor Trade Association (or not at this time - they may become members in the future?).

11. Consider getting an independent vehicle assessment and report done

12. Relating to the above - you must specifically ask your garage to retain all the parts that they are taking off your car. The broken parts off any car are crucual to the independent assessor. If parts are not under warranty and you do not specifically request the garage to keep them then they may dispose of them and this may be you evidence

13. Remember that Citroen, Fiat and Peugeot use the same engines in some of their cars

14. Maybe your local Citizens Advice Bureau may be able to help

15. Check to see if your car insurance can cover you in any way. Most car insurance is for accidental damage only and will not cover you for mechanical failure....but worth checking.

16. If you bought the car recently then you may have repair/replace rights under the Sale of Goods Act 17. As a consumer you have more rights or options if you use Hire Purchase and credit cards. You have fewer rights/options if you pay for a car with a loan from the Bank or on a debit card.

18. Your case will be strengthened if you have bought the car from a Citroen dealership and maintained a full Citroen Service History.

19. And make sure you create a thread and update it on this site - its a fantastic source of information and there are some really knowledgeable people on the site that have given me great advice over the last 3 months. It's also really useful for people that are just starting out with an issue - its a great reference source.

20. C8 specifically - for broken cam belts/timing belts - there seemingly was a recall notice for a scuttle panel to be fitted on the 2003-2005 models because water off the windshield was draining into the engine cavity and onto the timing belts/pulleys. Part number 8248.71 is the same for Citroen and Peugeots.

21. For the C8's the maintenance manual states that the timing belt only needs changed (for the HDi engine) every 100,000 miles or 10 years. Despite mine breaking at 57,000 miles and 5 years old, Citroen state that these are only guidelines and not guarantees. Its been suggested to me that the timing belt should in fact be changed at approx 50,000 miles.

 

I for one thank everyone that has helped me here.... very much appreciated.

 

I hope the above is of use in some way ....certainly a bit of a checklist that I have used.

 

Like I've said elsewhere.. as single lone voices we are not being heard....perhaps if Citroen start hearing of GROUPS of people with the same problem they may start to sit up and take notice.

 

I wish you luck !

[Guest Pam C8]

Fiona

I realise you have the added worry of being reliant on your C8 to get out and about with your daughter and I appreciate that you may not want the added hassle of a fight with Citroen on your hands but please, as per my original note about, try and contact the likes of VOSA and your local Trading Standards (asking them to email or forward a note of your complaint to Trading Standards in Slough). Also contact watchdog. If the likes of these people keep getting complaints about these useless cars then maybe they will take action against Citroen.

Putting aside the new finance I have just had to take on, at the end of the day, this whole sorry business with the C8 has cost me about £10,000 (£4000 cash I put towards buying the car, £4000 still outstanding on a loan for paying the rest of the car, £350 to get the injectors drilled out & £1500 to pay tomorrow once they deduct the £3500 off the outstanding invoice they are going to give me as a trade in for the C8). Every day, I keep having to put it all into perspective and remind myself that no-one got hurt etc. and I have come out of it with some valuable lessons learned. It still sticks in my throat that I am going to take delivery of an 04 plate Citroen Picasso tomorrow ..and I would have much preferred to have walked away completely from Citroen. However, this was the compromise I had to make to get to a solution re the £5000 invoice I was facing. The Picasso will be taken on Hire Purchase, bought from a Citroen dealer with Citroen service history, 1 years parts and labour warranty etc etc etc. If, heaven forbid, anything goes wrong with this car, I will surely be far better protected and have a much more watertight case with Citroen. Heaven help them if something does go wrong and they refuse to help again!!!!

I am well shot of the C8 though - glad to see the back end exhaust of that piece of pooh !

I hope you get a result with Citroen..keep fighting and keep pushing your case.

[Guest THE BUS DRIVER]

Just to update you ,my new engine is being fitted as we speak and the garage are now saying i need a new clutch and fly wheel.This is going to cost an extra £650 minimum where is this going to end!

Citreon say this is all fair wear and tear what do you think.Is it usual for everything under the bonnet to give up the ghost before the exhaust sytem? Fiona

[techbod]

well ask them to put it back together without doing the clutch then get another garage to change the clutch at less than half that price £650 to fit a clutch is a joke

[techbod]

i certainly doubt it needs a new flywheel for starters they are taking the P :D

[Guest THE BUS DRIVER]

well ask them to put it back together without doing the clutch then get another garage to change the clutch at less than half that price £650 to fit a clutch is a joke

 

the £650 is for the parts,the labour they are including in the replacement engine costs.fiona

[techbod]

ive had 3 clutches fitted to one of my cars and never had to change the flywheel so its up to you if you want it fitted but ask for proof that its bad or ask an independent to check their findings like trading standards

 

check this out for the price of the clutch then tell me where £650 for parts come to?

http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trk...-All-Categories

 

I mean :D how much does a flywheel cost and it wont be £500 that much I can tell you

 

ebay prices

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Citroen-C5-1-6-HDi-D...A1%7C240%3A1318

I couldn't find one for the C8 but they are the same as they use the same engine

[Guest THE BUS DRIVER]

Today i got my C8 back ,it cost me £2180.64 for a replacement clutch and flywheel and the labour to replace the engine that blew up when the cambelt went at 46k.

Drove 40 miles and it made exactly the same shudder folowed by loss of power and the engine light came on.

The garage came to take it away and said that the engine light coming on would have resulted in the loss of power,how can that be???? I need help tonight as they say they are going to bring it back tomorrow because its fine,there veiw is that the light came on because of the engine failure before.I am about to drive this car to dorset 630 miles from here with two kids in ,do you think it is safe to do so?

[techbod]

check if its a call back issue ill check anyway..

 

hopefully it went ok on your journey but if it didn't then they have to fit another engine at their cost as for the engine warning light coming on because of the previous issue is total crap as they would have to reset the ECU to the new engine and if they didn't do that then they didn't do the job right in the first place.

I think they should run a full diagnostic on your car and get a printout of the results to confirm if its ok to satisfy the customer ( talk is cheap ) and you cant use that against them if you need to go further

[Guest THE BUS DRIVER]

check if its a call back issue ill check anyway..

 

hopefully it went ok on your journey but if it didn't then they have to fit another engine at their cost as for the engine warning light coming on because of the previous issue is total crap as they would have to reset the ECU to the new engine and if they didn't do that then they didn't do the job right in the first place.

I think they should run a full diagnostic on your car and get a printout of the results to confirm if its ok to satisfy the customer ( talk is cheap ) and you cant use that against them if you need to go further

 

[size="4"]Oh joy, my solicitor has returned from holidays and taken one look at this mess and stopped the cheque.Perhaps now we can return to the crux of the matter ,a faulty car !![/size]

[ColinC1]

When I read these horror stories I wonder why we bother paying for warrenties.

 

As for the cam belt story, well I just do not understand why they put nylon cam belts on the outside of engines that snap so easily. (maybe they like making fortunes out of these repairs).

 

A £5,000 bill is horrendous, considering I bought my new Citroen C1 for just £1000 more.

 

In the old days all cars came with a metal link chain cam belt located within the engine block and made to operate FOR LIFE, not 47k miles.

 

Oh, by the way the City bugs, ie, the C1, Aygo and 107 have got the old idea with a lifetime metal link chain cambelt within the engine.

 

A lot of new cars are now reverting back to this, which cuts down on a very expensive bent valves repair.

[techbod]

the timing belt is made of many very tough materials like carbon fiber and in most cases its not the timing belt that does the trouble most things iv seen are water pump/ tensioners/ loose bolts dropping on the belt track/ oil leaks in that area/ dust build up due to low maintenance the list is long but for it to go at 40k this would suggest a failed component rather than the belt,

chains are the best but saying that vauxhall have been getting issues on its newer cars which are chain drive and its more expensive a repair than a timing belt because it causes much more damage,

 

gates who make the belts and tensioners have done a lot with this problem and upgraded the materials because of vauxhall ( auto data says to change their belt at 75k vauxhall changed that to 35k ) now that puts fear into people when they do things like that and it didn't address the problem but they changed the belt twice as much and that's a cash earner when inferior parts are being fitted to the engines to save a few bucks

[Guest Pam C8]

Hi

 

In my case, the local Citroen garage has confirmed it was my belt that broke VERY prematurely. And they even support that by advising that they re-used my original cylindar head and the rest of the engine to get the car working again ......so that proves there was nothing in the engine or other parts that caused the belt to break. My local Citroen dealer is also now advising all owners to replace their timing belts at 50k and not at 100K (for the HDi engines) as it is stated in their service manual. I think they said they are actually writing out to all of their customers to advise them of that. I think that speaks volumes when a local garage is so supportive of a customer and not of their head office and parent company !!! My £5000 final invoice was also the reduced cost from the local garage ! They had to take 3 attempts at rebuilding the engine because they eventually found a piece of swarf in the oil chamber. The debate was then around whether or not the blame sat with them or the other company I had been advised (by Citroen) to take the cylindar head to to get the siezed injectors out.. it all got really complex and Trading Standards said that I may have a case but would have to get a solicitor involved etc and I just dont have the money to do that. I am still chipping away at things regarding this and still emailing and speaking to people in the hope that I will get justice from Citroen one day... its just all extremely frustrating and tiring to be having to 'fight' all the time ! This whole sorry experience has had a huge impact ....many many negatives that have left me and my little girl facing a very different Christmas (with a lot of cut backs) but also some positives ...as I now know what NOT to do when buying a car. Oh and if Citroen need any technical advice.. I think I know their 2.0 HDi engine pretty well now :-(

[seefive]

Well, so much for the wonderful HDI engine that everyone raves about. With diesel now a staggering 18% dearer than petrol (108 v 91 at my local Shell garage), the obvious question is - why buy a car with such a huge liability under the bonnet?

My petrol car, whilst not perfect (Citroens never are) is a breeze compared with these 2 horror stories

 

If I were subjected to this abuse form Citroen, I would be beating a path to the Board of Trade, who control import licences. No car company should be allowed to import rubbish like this, which is demonstrably not fit for purpose, never mind charge exhorbitant amounts to fix them.

 

PamC8 and Bus Driver - my sympathies are with you. I sincerely hope you can get justice for all you've been through. I would try and offload your cars as soon as possible - trade them into a Citroen dealer ideally. It's only a matter of time before that engine light comes on again!!

[techbod]

I hear what your saying but not all the HDi /HPi engines have this problem ( this sort of site draws those who have problems ) and believe me its only a minority and that's what these types of sites deal with so lets not blow this out of preposition and condemn, I know of many that have had no problem with these cars but obviously regardless of badge there are some that get through the net as can be seen on many sites including RR :blink:

[CE08LDB]

My Neighbours across the road has an 06 Vauxhall Zafira and they have had major things go wrong on it and someone else I know who also has a 06 Zafira has had problems too. She misses her Picasso.

[seefive]

I hear what your saying but not all the HDi /HPi engines have this problem ( this sort of site draws those who have problems ) and believe me its only a minority and that's what these types of sites deal with so lets not blow this out of preposition and condemn, I know of many that have had no problem with these cars but obviously regardless of badge there are some that get through the net as can be seen on many sites including RR :blink:

 

Sorry, but this stuff really winds me up, as you can probabably tell!

Accepting that these (several) problems are the minority, Citroen really should put their hands up and fix them free of charge. If they tried to treat customers like this in the USA, they would very quickly find themselves on the wong end of a lawsuit.

It's totally unacceptable to charge big money to fix an inherent fault which has in no way been caused by the customer. Morally wrong. Shame on you Citroen. Beware potential Citroen diesel buyers.

 

Of course, Citroen aren't alone in taking this cavalier attitude, A couple of weeks back , that other French car company Nissan (aka Renault) was in the press for all the wrong reasons. Their diesel pickups have a fault where the con rod bearing disintegrates after about 50k miles and the the engine block breaks , spewing oil and bits of metal all over the road as the car dies, and risking a serious accident to the car behind. Nissan refuse to help, saying it's fair wear and tear, and not a safety issue.

(source - BBC watchdog)

[techbod]

I know what you mean on prices being over the top and its a dealer thing an profit based ( excessive profits that is ) as can be seen when a so called back street garage undertakes the job and does it for half what the dealer charges :blink:

[seefive]

I know what you mean on prices being over the top and its a dealer thing an profit based ( excessive profits that is ) as can be seen when a so called back street garage undertakes the job and does it for half what the dealer charges :blink:

 

 

Hi Techbod

My ranting is more about the fact they have charged anything , never mind £5,000.

The 2 people's experiences on this thread are by no means isolated instances. Take a look at this..

 

 

http://www.citroen-owners-club.co.uk/citro...?showtopic=5855

[techbod]

a good rant is good for the soul and the dealers hate these sites especially the one near me because I send them the links to the problems people are having regularly :blink: I bet they hate me if they knew who I was :o

[Guest Pam C8]

I'm back....

I have been away licking my wounds for a little while and also trying to get organised for Christmas (on a hugely reduced budget thanks to Citroen which I'm sure my little girl will not appreciate!). Anyway, I don't want to lose momentum on this so I'm back to try another few things before we all get involved with Christmas.

I have been thinking about all this C8 business (well, I go over it and over it again in my head every day) and have come up with an idea........

Thanks to people supplying very useful information on this site... I have learned that there was potentially a design fault in the 2003 -2005 C8 models whereby water run off from the windshield, would run into the engine cavity and hit the cambelt and other workings around it....perhaps causing early corrosion to the cambelt.

 

Now, I also understand the the 2006 models have a scuttle panel fitted to divert the water away from the cambelts and other working parts.............so.............I came up with the idea of getting photos taken from a 2003 model (without the scuttle panel) and a 2006 or 2007 model WITH the scuttle panel fitted..........thereby evidencing that there was a design fault (hence the need to fit the scuttle panel in later models).

 

So.....I'm looking for volunteers please.

 

Is anyone willing to photograph their engines for me ? I know this sounds absolutely mad but the local Citroen dealer knows me here now so I cant go asking to look under the bonnets of cars with a camera !

 

I also dont want to wander around Asda car park looking for C8 owners and politely asking them if I can look under their bonnets..... I can well imagine the response !

 

I am therefore turning to C8 owners who may read this to help me out...PLEASE !

 

Obviously I am going to need the photo to show the engine but also, somehow, show the age/year of your car. I'm not asking for your full registration plate to be on view in the photo but perhaps just the first bit as this shows the year of manufacture?

 

Anyone willing to help me please put a note on here or send me a personal message and hopefully we can link up via email etc.

 

I would be very much obliged if someone could please help

 

Thanks Pam

[Guest fredcatt]

I have been reading the stories of peoples problems with their engines and do sympathise but would like to add my own comment about my 2001 Synergie 2.0 HDI. It is going into my friends garage on Tuesday for a cambelt change. It has done 96700 miles and never and I mean never missed a beat. The only things ever changed (due to wear and tear) are brake pads and last week a new exhaust. Maybe I just got a good car but as this is my 7th from new trouble free Citroen I think it must be something other than faults causing the problems . Lets not forget .There Are a lot of rogue traders out there. I wish all a very happy Christmas and good luck with their cars for 2009.

[Guest Pam C8]

Fredcatt - glad you have had trouble free Citroen motoring. Just wish my experience with the manufacturer had been as smooth. Just wish Citroen Customer Services and policies had been a little more sympathetic to its customers. Just wish Citroen had shown a little compassion and helped me with the £5000 bill. Just wish they had a little consideration of the fact that I am £10K out of pocket and suffering massive financial hardship because of it all now. I bought the car from a massive garage and have no suspicions about their business. I think my problems are simply down to a bad Citroen car. I just wish.. I had never set eyes on the car and bought it.

 

I sincerely hope your happy Citroen days continue.

[Randombloke]

I have been reading the stories of peoples problems with their engines and do sympathise but would like to add my own comment about my 2001 Synergie 2.0 HDI. It is going into my friends garage on Tuesday for a cambelt change. It has done 96700 miles and never and I mean never missed a beat.

 

Hi dude,

 

You're lucky in some respects. To put a slant on Pam's problem, I own a 2.2 HDi powered C5. I use a local independent with Citroen accreditation.

 

The boss of said garage looked at my car service record when I booked it in for 84k service, asked if it was a 2.2 and suggested I got the cam belt done early at 84k. When I asked why he said that he'd had 3 2.2 HDi powered vehicles in for fixes in the space of a month that had broken belts between 90 and 100k when the change is due. We went into the workshop as the mechanics had left and he showed me a C8 halfway through the fix and the pile of bits.

 

Needless to say I paid for the belt change at 84k.

 

Quite a few people have suffered a cost bombshell like Pam.

 

I think you simply have to be careful with early HDi engines as the cam belt path and technology seems to be the same as XUD but has to drive 16 valves, not 8.

 

To be honest, most car manufacturers only care about the first owner. The 100k belt change is way past first owner territory and it tends to write a lot of cars off, keeping turnover up. Last thing any manufacturer wants is us driving around in 375,000 mile BX TDs saying how brilliant they are.

 

Please can anyone who can help her send pictures of the newer C8.

 

Any success in her battle will improve the respect with which the main importer deals with people in such cases, and will help us all in the long run.

 

I'm also wondering if there is a Left Hand Drive/Right Hand Drive element to this, as sometimes right hand drive cars have a compromised design due to the steering and controls being on the other side of the car.

 

I was on a French forum briefly for the C5 and did not hear of belt breakage problems.