Problems With Citroen - Cam Belt Failure

February 11, 2009

Randombloke

Thanks for the bits of information. Especially the pointer re the modifications for the vehicles being adapted for right hand drive - not an aspect I had thought about before and will certainly try and do a bit of digging about.

I realise it was a big ask for people to send me pictures of their cars - I know that people dont like to get involved that bit further - and I have really appreciated all the input and advice that they have given me here in text.

I will perhaps take a trip to a nearby city and find a Citroen dealer and see if I can get a few photos for myself.

You are absolutely right though about people having to stand up to the manufacturers about this kind of thing. They should not be allowed to treat owners/customers in such a terrible way. The more of us that do stand up and be counted the less likely they are to be so disinterested in the future.

Hence the reason for me starting this thread in the first place. I think the more people that contact the likes of VOSA and trading standards etc, the more notice Citroen may take.

So everyone with issues re Citroen - please refer to my original checklist in this thread and contact as many people as possible.

I think the number of hits this thread and the other one about my personal C8 story has had speaks volumes - Do Citroen realise how many people are reading the horror stories.

I'm not silly enough to imagine that it has impacted their sales figures dramatically but in the current climate can they afford to alienate customers or potential buyers?

If my experience or the information I have provided has protected or saved other people from having so much hassle and financial loss then I will feel a bit better about all of this.

Thanks again randombloke - if you think of other things that would be worth me looking in to then please update here...cheers !

techbod · February 25, 2009

if you can think of any problem with a car regardless of make or cost im sure we all suffer the same issue but the more expensive charge more lol

March 1, 2009

Totally agree Techbod - any make of car or regardless of what it has cost to get fixed, if you think a big manufacturer is being unreasonable then people should stick up for their rights.

April 4, 2009

Although I've taken my foot off the pedal a bit with this recently - either due to other events in my life or because I am just battle weary - I fully intend to keep on going with this until I can get some sort of conclusion. So, if you have had cambelt/timing belt problems with a C8 I'd be really interested to hear from you. Thanks

Billy · April 13, 2009

Well good luck with your battle Pam! Hard to know what to do with cambelts, this issue became relavent in about 1970 with the 2litre Cortina 'Pinto' engine. It was, I think, the UK's first belt driven ohc. Ford did not specify a belt change interval but it soon became clear a change was needed every 30k miles to be safe.

My new HDI 110 specifies a belt change at 160k miles, or 100k with 'severe' use(whatever that is)so presumabley the belt is made of carbon fibre or summat.

May 25, 2009

Thanks Billy. Good luck with yours but I suggest you maybe book it in for the cambelt change a bit sooner. Thank you for taking the time to post a reply to my thread.

For the wider audience too... I am still trying to find evidence that Citroen started fitting scuttle panel in the 2006 models. If you have any pictures or reference material that would help me evidence this I would really appreciate you getting in touch.. I you are not comfortable posting a reply in here for everyone to see then please send me a personal message. Thanks very much.

seefive · June 1, 2009

Hi PamC8

Looking at this and the C8 post, I'm not sure where you are going with this. It appears that you bought a second-hand 3 year old C8 in Jan06 from a non-franchised dealer? and the cam belt snapped in Aug08, apparently because the car had not been taken in for recall rectification, and you were not notified of the recall, is that it?

I'm not sure what the manuafacturer's responsibility is beyond the first owner, but I doubt if they have liability in this case. The dealer who originally sold the car probably has no trace of it, and I can't see a manufacturer using the DVLA to track down every owner who has bought one second hand.

I previously came down hard on your side on this thread, and I'm still apalled by the money they have charged you, but I really don't think this has got legs, now I've gone back into the c8 post.

Recall aside, there have been a number of cam belt disasters reported on this site on the 2.2 hdi engine - it seems there is an inherent weakness /complication in the engine design, as this has happened in C5's as well.

Very difficult case to argue, I wish you the best of luck, but I wouldn't spend any money pusuing this one.

Sorry

June 3, 2009

Thanks Seefive. I appreciate your advice and words of caution.

As chance would have it, I approached a 2006 C8 owner on Monday and they very kindly let me have a look in the engine compartment. There IS a panel above the cambelt housing that was not fitted in my 2003 model. Unfortunately, BECAUSE of all this, I dont have any money to spend on a court case or pusuing a big company such as Citroen. However, I feel that if I can evidence a modification between the 2003-2005 and later models then I might have something more concrete to go back to Citroen with and expect at least an explantion. I am under no illusion that I may not get any decent compensation from Citroen or anywhere near the £10,000 that I am out of pocket with all this sorry mess but if I can get some recognition that a change was made or it helps other owners of 2003-2005 models then I will feel happy. This whole saga has been a struggle for me - financially and emotionally and I just feel that I cant walk away until I have tried everything that I can. I wouldnt be true to myself and I dont want to always have that feeling of "if only I had tried this or that...." In order to feel comfortable enough to walk away and say "enough is enough" I have to try everything that I can. Believe me, I want to be free of all of this but when so much is at stake I have to make that effort.

Thanks again....

seefive · June 4, 2009

If you really feel there is a legal case to answer (sale of goods/fitness for purpose) a class action would be a more powerful and economical route to pursue, if there are other people out there with similar grievances.

June 4, 2009

I was contacted yesterday by another person who has had a similar problem and has information that could help all C8 owners who have experienced this cambelt problem. Bearing in mind the C8, Peugeot 807 and the Fiat Ullyses are all basically the same car. Peugeot have a recall notice on their model to fit a scuttle panel above the cambelt and seemingly Fiat have just settled with a customer and admitted there was a fault with their model for the very same reason. Surely to goodness Citroen are going to have to follow a similar course of action and accept responsibilty. There is too much evidence emerging now that suggests there was in fact a design fault with these cars. For that reason alone, I intend to keep pursuing this.

Thanks again though for the further advice and I will bear it in mind as I take this forward.

Regards

July 10, 2009

I've been contacted by someone off the Eurovan site that has the same problem with a C8 cambelt. Once I get more info I will post details here.

coastline taxis · July 24, 2009

Got to take me hat off to you girl. Your like a terrier that just wont let go. best of luck to you

best regards

steve

August 15, 2009

Steve, Thanks for your comments. I'm actually an exhausted, frustrated and sick to the back teeth of Citroen girl but I need to keep chipping away at this. I get very downhearted by it all at times and do a fantastic ostrich impersonation of burying my head in the sand (with butt in the air) and then every so often I get a renewed anger about it and try and few other small things. Anything that I think will finally clinch my case and make Citroen see sense. I'll still be here, plodding along with the whole sorry thing for a long time yet. You've not heard the last of me yet..... !

If Peugeot and Fiat have buckled and accepted there was a fault I reckon the pressure is on Citroen to do the same.

October 8, 2009

I watched Watchdog tonight (8th Oct) with interest when another car manufacturer was under the spotlight for making owners pay to replace faulty or broken parts in their cars which they knew were faulty. During the programme they contacted Watchdog to say that they would significantly reduce the amount owners would need to pay to get the faulty part replaced. With that in mind...let me give you anonther scenario.... someone owns a 2003 C8 model and their cambelt breaks (just over 5 yrs old and approx 57K on the clock). Discovers that this may have been due to a design fault because the 2006 models actually have a scuttle panel fitted to divert water away from the cambelt housing.. do you think Citreon would admit responsibilty and make some kind of payout?

Oh and Fiat and Peugeot have both seemingly acknowledged the fault in the Ulyses and 807 models which, incidentally, are practically the same car as the Citreon C8... Mmmm.. makes you wonder eh !

December 13, 2009

Thanks Billy. Sorry its taken me so long to say thank you!

I was also interesting to hear from another member that Citroen, Fiat and Peugeot are all owned by the PSA group so that gives me another route to explore... when I get a minute over Christmas! :-) Sometimes we can get so blinkered by the name, it neve occurred to me that there could be a parent group to pursue. I still chip away at this every so often but its hard work and very frustrating. I am conscious that it is over a year now since my timing belt broke and all this sorry saga began. I guess they (Citroen/PSA) just hope you eventually give up and go away and not try and pursue them for some sort of compensation.

If anyone knows if there are time limits on this sort of thing, I would appreciate some info.

Many thanks

June 24, 2010

Information for Camfag - this is the my other thread regarding my C8 saga - you may find something useful in here too.... regards

navi · June 28, 2010

To cut a very very long story short, I had a C8 with a broken cambelt. The car was in the garage 3 months and my final invoice was for £4995.11 to get it fixed (more details can be found on the C8 section as there is a lengthy discussion thread on the go there). Citroen in Slough refused to assist, accept liability or take any responsibility for repair or the costs. For those of you experiencing problems with Citroen, may I suggest the following:

1. Keep a note of every date, time and person you speak to - after 3 months it gets confusing
2. Contact Citroen UK Limited, 221 Bath Road, Slough, SL1 4BA - detail your issue in full and clearly state what you want them to do. You can ask for a written response within a certain timeframe - i.e. 7 days. If you state that you are lodging a complaint, they should give you a reference number.
3. Contact robert.parry@vosa.gov.uk and ask for a Vehicle Safety Defect Report. I completed this and returned it to Robert. Their investigations with Citroen are still ongoing
4. Contact watchdog@bbc.co.uk
5. Contact your local trading standards office to report the complaint. Specifically ask that they refer/forward on your complaint to the local trading standards office in Slough - this is the closest office to the Citroen head office. If they get enough complaints about a similar issue then they may be obliged to get in touch with Citroen to investigate further.
6. For those of you in Scotland - contact The Sunday Post at rawdeal@sundaypost.com ....... they were kind enough to make enquiries on my behalf but sadly Citroen wouldnt budge! Again, perhaps if Citroen get contacted often enough they will start to listen.
7. Describe the issues you have been having on the Review Centre site and 'rate' the car - reviewcentre.com
8. Contact your local Consumer Direct office
9. Check for Recall notices on the VOSA website
10. Find out if Citroen are members of your local Motor Trade Association. They are not members of the Scottish Motor Trade Association (or not at this time - they may become members in the future?).
11. Consider getting an independent vehicle assessment and report done
12. Relating to the above - you must specifically ask your garage to retain all the parts that they are taking off your car. The broken parts off any car are crucual to the independent assessor. If parts are not under warranty and you do not specifically request the garage to keep them then they may dispose of them and this may be you evidence
13. Remember that Citroen, Fiat and Peugeot use the same engines in some of their cars
14. Maybe your local Citizens Advice Bureau may be able to help
15. Check to see if your car insurance can cover you in any way. Most car insurance is for accidental damage only and will not cover you for mechanical failure....but worth checking.
16. If you bought the car recently then you may have repair/replace rights under the Sale of Goods Act 17. As a consumer you have more rights or options if you use Hire Purchase and credit cards. You have fewer rights/options if you pay for a car with a loan from the Bank or on a debit card.
18. Your case will be strengthened if you have bought the car from a Citroen dealership and maintained a full Citroen Service History.
19. And make sure you create a thread and update it on this site - its a fantastic source of information and there are some really knowledgeable people on the site that have given me great advice over the last 3 months. It's also really useful for people that are just starting out with an issue - its a great reference source.
20. C8 specifically - for broken cam belts/timing belts - there seemingly was a recall notice for a scuttle panel to be fitted on the 2003-2005 models because water off the windshield was draining into the engine cavity and onto the timing belts/pulleys. Part number 8248.71 is the same for Citroen and Peugeots.
21. For the C8's the maintenance manual states that the timing belt only needs changed (for the HDi engine) every 100,000 miles or 10 years. Despite mine breaking at 57,000 miles and 5 years old, Citroen state that these are only guidelines and not guarantees. Its been suggested to me that the timing belt should in fact be changed at approx 50,000 miles.

I for one thank everyone that has helped me here.... very much appreciated.

I hope the above is of use in some way ....certainly a bit of a checklist that I have used.

Like I've said elsewhere.. as single lone voices we are not being heard....perhaps if Citroen start hearing of GROUPS of people with the same problem they may start to sit up and take notice.

I wish you luck !

navi · June 28, 2010

Thank you, excellent info on contact details. I have an issue with suspension springs breaking. One front one rear car having only done 18000 miles. regards navi

September 9, 2010

Glad some of the information I had posted could be of help Navi. Good luck with Citroen and I hope you get your problems sorted out. Regards

April 7, 2011

Still here !! Hi ... I would be interested to hear from anyone who has successfully managed to get Citroen or their parent company to acknowledge that there was a problem with the C8 2003-2005 model. I have spoken to a few owners of the 2003-2005 models to highlight this issue and suggest they get a drip tray fitted and/or get their timing belt checked. Hopefully I've helped a few other people avoid the horrors of these cars and some extremely costly damage that can be caused. I also see that there have been a few other C8 owners posting information on here to say that they have had problems too with timing belts and this problem. When are Citroen, or whoever it is that is in charge of them, going to accept that there is a problem with their cars????? Thanks

Pam C8 · November 6, 2012

Hi...me again. I've not been on for a while as I had other things that needed to take priority....never a dull moment!

Just wondering if anyone has had any success with Citroen or any new stories about C8s?

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