C8 Diesel Injectors

[Guest Glynnpt]

Has anyone come across a fix for seized injectors, that won't cost a fortune? My head gasket has gone at 70.000 miles. I'm not very happy. I'm now told the injectors are most likely to be seized into the head and will not come out. that means the head cannot be taken off. no head gasket repair possible.

 

Has anyone had the problem and got it fixed. I know it is a long running thing.

[Johndouglas]

It's a common problem - particularly on 2.2 engines. There are mobile firms who specialize in removal. Google "PSA siezed injectors"

[Guest Glynnpt]

Firstly, thank you very much JohnDouglas. I found a mobile firm in Newcastle. I need to find one nearer to Basingstoke.

 

I intend to have a go at Citroen and the warranty company I am with.

I don't expect success, but if my experience is anything to go by, I don't think Citroen are very helpful. Neither dealer I have spoken to have mentioned there might be mobile companies who could extract them. Both garages have quite happily told me they have had the same problem with other C8s in the last few weeks and the owners have basically had to scrap a perfectly good car, except for a blown head gasket. It seems to me that Citroen, and the other makers have a responsiblity to owners of their cars to try to sort out a problem that is so widespread. Even if they were prepared to pay for the mobile specialists to have a go when their garages fail. The cost to Citroen would be peanuts. Especially if they equiped a few of their garages spread over the country with the equipment.

 

I emailed Citroen tueday of this week. No answer yet and it is Friday.

 

 

As for the warranty company, I cannot believe they do not know about the problem with these engines. My opinion is that they are very likely to be unable to fullfil their contract with me to replace a head gasket. And they would have known that when putting the gasket in the parts covered. Not happy about that. I'm also not happy with the fact they do not accept the garage's diagnosis

 

I would like to hear other peoples' experiences with regard to this problem

[Guest womble]

It's a common problem - particularly on 2.2 engines. There are mobile firms who specialize in removal. Google "PSA siezed injectors"

Just had a quick "Google", this is getting bl**dy silly and expensive.

 

Many decades ago, when I served my time as a diesel engine fitter, I worked on many and varied types and manufacture of engine from small van and single cylinder up to large multi cylinder industrial engines. The advent of diesel engined cars had not come of age in that era and I think the only ones commonly with diesel engines were the old "London Cabs".

 

In those days we used to get injectors seized in cylinder heads but mostly the head could be removed and using a lump hammer and drift the injector could be given a good thump at the nozzle end to liberate it. The injector nozzle would be knackered afterwards but then we had a fuel-injection workshop to repair it.

 

I use to think this was ever so slightly "animal" in approach but this was nothing compared to some of the measures that people are suggesting on various internet sites.

 

I would go as far as to suggest that "organised vandalism" be the descriptive noun for modern engine fitting, and they call this "Progress"!!!!!

 

Some years later, when I worked in the coal industry, we used to use some stuff called "Underground Penetrating Oil" which was a specialised preparation for use in coal mines and flammable atmospheres, it was manufactured by "Century Oils" of Stoke on Trent, they were taken over by "Fuchs Lubricants".

 

It was damned good stuff if left to soak in, don't know if it is still made.

[Johndouglas]

I need to find one nearer to Basingstoke.

 

 

Don't know if these guys can help:-

http://www.psdfi.co.uk/

[Guest Glynnpt]

I found them a few days ago. Emailed them. No reply so far. I will probably go to seee them after Christmas.

The plan will probably be to see if the main dealer can remove the injectors, then just fix the gasket and claim on the warranty. At least the warranty company will be able to see the damaged gasket. If the main dealer can't get the injectors out, then it will be going to a diesel specialist, get the Newcastle people in. If they can remove the injectors then the garage can fix the gasket. Try to see if the warranty company will cough up. I doubt the diesel specialist will be good enough for them. If they can't get the injectors out then buy a second hand engine. Making sure I have seen the injectors removed!!!! Get the diesel specialist to swop engines. The biggest problem is just not knowing if the injectors come out or not. Autodiagnostics say they are about 95% successful in removing injectors. Bet I'm among the 5% unlucky ones. Probably get 3 out then not the other

[Guest womble]

Bet I'm among the 5% unlucky ones. Probably get 3 out then not the other

Looks like you share my luck or lack of it!!!!

 

I once had a rocking horse and the ba**ard died on me!!!!

 

 

Dare I say it.... Good Luck

[Guest Glynnpt]

At the moment the C8 is in the main dealers with the injectors swimming in some type of freeing chemical. It will spend Christmas there and hopefully I will get a slightly late Christmas present. If not, it will probably be a visit to PTS developments. They have access to hydraulic equipment. I'll keep people informed. Maybe my experience will be of benefit to others

[Guest womble]

Hindsight is a marvelous word!!!

 

Not a new thing, chemical action, corrosion and seizing up of dis-similar metals.

 

The engine manufacturers have been in the business long enough to know better and there are plenty of anti-seize potions such as copper-grease around.

 

Surely preventive measures should be taken at initial engine build and perhaps we, collectively as owners should be throwing the problems back at manufacturers???

 

Pre-Christmas rant now over and back down off my soap-box.

 

Merry Christmas everyone...

[Guest Glynnpt]

As soon as I mention the words C8 and fuel injectors to anyone with any knowledge of these engines, I always get "can't get them out". as you say car manufacturers (and others) always pride themselves on their after sales service. As long as it doesn't cost them hard cash. I did get a call from Citroen UK, (ave to phone back after Christmas). They are sorry I am having difficulty with the C8. Not sure what else they will say

[Guest Glynnpt]

had Citroen UK phone me today. They have contacted the Maindealer the car is at and requested them to phone Citroen technical department.

Is there something that will be done, or is it just window dressing

[Guest womble]

had Citroen UK phone me today. They have contacted the Maindealer the car is at and requested them to phone Citroen technical department.

Is there something that will be done, or is it just window dressing

Well, a phonecall is a good start, perhaps something down in writing would be a bit more "concrete". Hope you got a contact name...

 

Don't let it rest, mate.

 

Keep rattling their cages until you get the result you want.

 

As consumers, why should we sit back and take it on the chin???

 

I just wonder what stance the French people take with the manufacturers of a product from their country in similar circumstances???

[Guest Glynnpt]

latest update.went to this place:-

http://www.ptsdevelopments.com/

 

in Woking.

They are Citroen specialists. The owner is, I suppose, a Citroen fanatic. He just completed a similar job, as a result of the broken cam belt problem, which included having to mill out an injector and replace it.

 

I think it also included some stuff with valves and other sundries. Cost was between £2000 and £3000.

 

The Owner Pete Sparrow talks you through every thing that has to be done, giving rough ideas of prices and you get to be able to make an informed assessment about whether it is the route you want to take.

 

You can visit the workshop whenever you like and you can see the state of your engine. He often stays late into the evening, so you can go after work. He will take photos and email them to you.

 

I was lucky, all the injectors came out. He has a contact with hydraulics, exerting some amazing force on them. I can see why they are a problem. I can send pics if anyone is interested.

 

The saga will continue.

[Guest womble]

Yes, would be interested in seeing any photos please.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Guest Glynnpt]

how do I get pics up here. Only have one real problem now, and that is trying to get anything from the warranty company. They tell you not to use the vehicle as soon as you realise something is wrong. Trouble is it's not easy to be 100% convinced there is a problem with the gasket, although the garage have identified where it could have been. Getting head skimmed and checked.

contact me through glynnpt@live.co.uk

[Guest Glynnpt]

how do I get pics up here. Only have one real problem now, and that is trying to get anything from the warranty company. They tell you not to use the vehicle as soon as you realise something is wrong. Trouble is it's not easy to be 100% convinced there is a problem with the gasket, although the garage have identified where it could have been. Getting head skimmed and checked.

contact me through glynnpt@live.co.uk

[Guest Glynnpt]

forgot to mention they are going to check the clutch at the same time as the engine is out.

[Guest Glynnpt]

Just heard that the warranty company have decided to pay out £950 towards the repair. Result. And to think if I had gone with the Main dealer I would have had to trade the car in for £3000 and then have to buy another one from them!! It was worth all the time on the internet. that means I have had cam belt, head gasket and clutch done for basically the labour charge of one job. Would have preferred not to have had to do it though

[Guest Glynnpt]

total cost £2700

includes removal refit engine

removal of all injectors, cleaning up, recalibrating.

head pressure checked and skimmed. Valves cleaned and readjusted

replaced cambelt and Auxillary belt

clutch checked out.

air filter, fuel filter

Anything that looked vaguely worn was replaced. Many fluids (oil, anti freeze) replaced. Alomost everything at the top end.

 

I would advise anyone in the Woking area to take their Citroen to PST Developments in Woking. They have a website .

 

as I said, Warranty company to pay £970.

[Guest APAutodiagnostics]

total cost £2700

includes removal refit engine

removal of all injectors, cleaning up, recalibrating.

head pressure checked and skimmed. Valves cleaned and readjusted

replaced cambelt and Auxillary belt

clutch checked out.

air filter, fuel filter

Anything that looked vaguely worn was replaced. Many fluids (oil, anti freeze) replaced. Alomost everything at the top end.

 

I would advise anyone in the Woking area to take their Citroen to PST Developments in Woking. They have a website .

 

as I said, Warranty company to pay £970.

 

 

warranty companies will pay for damaged parts but not for the seized part to be removed to access the damaged part to be changed ie they will pay for the rocker fingers following a cambelt failure but not to have the seized injectors removed to do this job, hence the big difference between your final bill and the amount they paid.

 

you will have to pay for extra work required to remove the seized injectors plus any damage done to the injectors by a garage trying to remove the injecotrs incorrectly, i have seen cars dangling form the celing being abused with huge slide hammers heated up with oxy acetylenne soaked in chemicals / easing oils etc for weeks on end all to no avail, hundreds of pounds of customers money wasted on cheap pullers and little slide hammers and hous and hours of extra labour, then when i turn up and remove the injectors in minutes using the correct tool they can't belive their eyes.

 

tony

[kfk]

http://www.apautodiagnostics.com/injector-removal-service

[Guest Glynnpt]

warranty companies will pay for damaged parts but not for the seized part to be removed to access the damaged part to be changed ie they will pay for the rocker fingers following a cambelt failure but not to have the seized injectors removed to do this job, hence the big difference between your final bill and the amount they paid.

 

you will have to pay for extra work required to remove the seized injectors plus any damage done to the injectors by a garage trying to remove the injecotrs incorrectly, i have seen cars dangling form the celing being abused with huge slide hammers heated up with oxy acetylenne soaked in chemicals / easing oils etc for weeks on end all to no avail, hundreds of pounds of customers money wasted on cheap pullers and little slide hammers and hous and hours of extra labour, then when i turn up and remove the injectors in minutes using the correct tool they can't belive their eyes.

 

tony

 

Hi Tony

Lots of things annoyed me about this. Neither Citroen specialists mentioned the fact that there was the alternative of using someone with hydraulic extractors. When I mentioned it to the main dealer, then went on about "Well you know, you will get your head cracked. Will cost a lot more. Personally I wouldn't do it." All the specialist dealers would do was tell me that if they couldn't get the injectors out, then I might as well scrap the car.

 

It may have been that the heads would crack every time, (didn't believe it) but I wasn't given the choice. Citroen UK, just said for the dealer to talk to them and they would advise. I think it is going to be true that society will be split into those with internet access and those without.

If I hadn't done my internet research, I would have been thousands of piounds out of pockets, with a loan for a new car that I didn't want

[Guest Glynnpt]

I will certainly advise anyone to look at the Citroen forum and research the internet for solutions