72dudes

Last night the fuel gauge read just under one quarter full (as it should be). This morning, it's reading about one third full and the fuel computer has added about 100 miles to the "distance to go" readout. So unless Santa has paid an early visit and snuck some diesel in my tank, something's not quite right. All other gauges and switches are fine - the only unusual thing is that the Trafficmaster woman has started saying "license expired" every time ignition is switched on. FIlled up with diesel and fuel gauge shows full. Any ideas? Sticky sender unit which is now OK after fill up, or something more tricky? Thanks.

Yes, also see my posts in this older topic. C5 Reliability Update: Citroen UK didn't understand my point and weren't interested so I gave up!

This is most probably REAR wheel balance which is out. There may also be a slight vertical vibration of the steering wheel on certain surfaces. Surprised Kwik Fit did not suggest balancing the rears. What am I saying, they'll probably say you need new tyres all round.

Jeezaloo! Fill the tank up for £30! I read today that 50.4p per litre is duty, 18p is VAT, the rest is cost and 4p is retailer profit. Time for an uprising.

John, have you noticed any difference in road noise from the Avons? Michelins are supposed to be good in this area but I'd be interested to hear your view - my priority is for ride comfort and low noise, I tend not to go round roundabouts at 40mph in the wet theses days!

I agree with Randombloke, any of the "level 2 premium" brands will be fine: Pirelli, Continental, Bridgestone, don't like Dunlops personally - had 2 bad experiences with longevity and balancing - even some of the Asian makes are getting a good reputation, Hankook is one. My tyres are 205x65x15, being a 2001 model, but I've found an internet price of £81 each for Michelins. Have you tried an online search in NZ as £213 per tyre sounds very high?

Yes, I'm afraid it's the auto which increases the CO2 emissions (not the fuel economy) and has a bad effect on the amount of road tax you pay. My wife's small Rover 216 auto attracts road tax of £190! :P

Actually they all ping when you select reverse, but this is nothing to do with reversing sensors. My SX has no sensors, I think they were an option on Exclusive models and not available on SX in 2002

Re the rear door. Try opening the tailgate, then press the plipper to lock all the doors. The system should "kick back" and unlock all the doors as a safety measure. If this fails I'm afraid it's a trim off job to replace the locking motor (or a trip to a Citroen specialist if you're like me!)

Blimey kfk, good stuff! I had the same problem as Delapoer and it took 5 visits to 5 different places to finally minimise the problem. It's these damned wheels with no centre hub. I say 'minimise' because I occasionally get a slight vibration which seems to depend on tyre and ambient temperature, very annoying. I'm due to replace the front tyres and am dreading the balancing fiasco afterwards. I wish kfk could come and do mine as I suspect the average tyre fitter will scratch his head, mutter under his breath about zeros on his machine and blame the tyres.

I agree, and it's impossible to determine where the garage actually is unless you book the service!! What's the betting it's Nationwide Autocentre - that's right, the ones who suddenly discover that your car needs £500 worth of repairs as well as the service? No personal experience but plenty of stories from people I know. Beware these people, use an independent Citroen specialist instead or a trusted local garage who aren't frightened by C5s.

Hi Terry, I agree, as I like the idea of a diesel combined with an auto box. But you are right, the vast majority of auto gearboxes just drink a lot more juice. The only exception seems to be the VW/Audi group DSG box which is a dual clutch "automated manual". This gearbox is slightly more economical than its manual conterpart, in some instances. But I think I'm correct in saying that nobody has yet managed to connect a DSG box to a diesel. Your 37 mpg doesn't sound too bad, but as you say it's a long way from 47 on the manual car or even my 44 with the older 2.2 HDi engine. My fuel computer is much more accurate than yours, I reckon within 4%. A more helpful dealer would offer to recalibrate yours with a software download. I had this done with a Volvo S60 I once had when I complained that the computer was optimisitic. But then that's Volvo dealers! I always reset the computer at each fill up, if you don't, you will find that the computer becomes less and less accurate. My wife's car is a Rover 200 1.6 with a CVT auto, and the bl**dy thing barely reaches 30mpg average!

Richardw, Worth getting the wheels re-balanced somewhere else, as it certainly sounds like wheel balance to me. I've posted somewhere else about this, but if you have the wheels without the centre hub which are located via 4 bolts, then they are notoriously hard to balance. I believe with a 2004 version though you may have "normal" wheels but worth checking. I went to 6 different tyre outlets trying to get rid of a vibration, each one claimed they had the latest equipment and could balance the wheels. Luckily, if they fail, you don't pay. :( Another possibility is the tyres themselves, check if one of them is not completely round. Any tyre fitter can check for this but don't be taken in by bs.....check balance and pressures first before shelling out for new rubber. Good luck.

That sounds pretty good sirdrinksalot, especially with a heavy right foot! However, I think myglaren's car might not be fulfilling it's potential - I'd expect 31 mpg from a 2.0 petrol. Unless this is all short journeys of course? Just checked my records (anorak!), best tankful to date 50.4 MPG, worst tankful 40.1 MPG.

Just a thought - do either of you have the alloy wheels with no centre hub, i.e. they are located onto the hub by 4 bolts??? Early C5's (and I think mainly the 2.2 SX/Exclusive) had these wheels and I had to go to 6 (repeat 6) tyre specialists before I finally got rid of steering wheel wobble (mine was 65 - 75 MPH btw) Edit: And I stood over each tyre fitter when he was balancing the wheels to make sure the "0" came up on the machines - and the wheel still wobbled to varying degrees. It sure sounds like a wheel balance problem to me. Also have rears balanced too, as out of balance rear wheels can cause a vibration which sets up a kind of resonance which translates into steering wheel shimmy, but yours sound like fronts to me. I'm due two front tyres soon, and I'm dreading getting the bl**dy things balanced as the only place where they balanced them properly was the ....... Citroen dealer (£60 and he wasn't even wearing a mask, .. lol) So if anyone has the ideal answer on how to balance these stupid hubless wheels I'd love to know.

Ah, this is my speciality subject! I keep detailed records for all cars I have owned over the last 15 years, as I always brim to brim, note mileage, litres and convert. Real world economy for my 2.2 HDi hatch is an average of 44.4 MPG over 11,500 miles in the last 15 months. This is really close to the gov. combined figure 44.1. On a long motorway run, cruising at around 75, it'll do up to 49, but journeys around town knock it down to mid/high 30's. I would expect the auto to achieve high 30's on average. The 2.0 HDi should be more economical, but remember that the gearing is lower and the engine has less torque so works a bit harder. Driven gently, expect mid/high 40's. As another ex Saab man I know your issues - I had a 9000 2.3t auto which averaged 28.4 over the 12k miles I had it, but round town took it down to 18 ish, as you say. Hope this helps.

Hi Lifescape, My 2.2HDi has the exact same problem, and we are not alone! Mine was diagnosed back in January as egr valve fault, but I've not had it done because of cost and the fact that I can go weeks without fault appearing. If you've had egr valve replaced and fault still returned then god knows, but I probably won't have mine done at all now! As discussed elsewhere on the forum, when fault appears, you can "hurry up" the disappearance of the message and lights, by switching ignition off, waiting for about 90 seconds until everything shuts down, turning on ignition, repeat 5 times, lock and unlock car, hey presto, no faults! Takes around 7 minutes. I also had turbo pressure switch replaced the first time this message appeared and it also ran fine for 2 months. I get the feeling that even the good dealers/specialist independents are "experimenting" when the car dispalys this kind of fault, i.e. they don't really know! If only the car didn't go into limp mode, I wouldn't bother so much...................

Hi Gareth, I'm not a mechanic, but there are some users on here that are, so hopefully some of them will reply. But I'd have thought that with a full dealer service history, everything should have been done. The important bits would be the particulate filter and diesel additive top-up (separate tank under rear seat). In fact at 120k, your car should in theory have had these bits done twice by now. Your father's HDi 110 doesn't have these btw. The other things would be change of suspension fluid and cambelt. One way to check would be by contacting the dealer(s) who stamped the service book - they normally keep computerised records. I did this when I bought mine and the service manager was happy to help. Another way would be to contact the previous owner from the V5 and ask him questions. Again, most people would be happy to help.

I understand your concerns, Randombloke, but I don't think this would have such a drastic effect on the C5's reputation! Even if it did, our cars would be worth more anyway!!? Update on my earlier post. Editor of What Car is now ignoring my e-mails, so I have written to Citroen UK, in case they are interested.

Hi 'the builder'. My 2.2 HDi saloon has exactly the same problem, and usually happens on a long journey, or occasionally when I accelerate hard. Mine has been diagnosed as a faulty vac solonoid (also known as an egr valve, I believe). Your symptoms sound exactly the same: The esp light comes on as protection, the anti-pollution message appears and the 'service' and engine fault light comes on, and car goes into limp mode to protect everything. Once car is switched off and re-started, power comes back but lights stay on (except esp fault light goes out). Everything agreed so far? Surprised dealer cannot trace fault - try another dealer?? OK so the fix is to have this part replaced. Part Number is 1628HC vac solonoid, £27.74 plus VAT plus 2 hours Labour. So that's around £192 at a dealer, depending on location, or around £138 at a Citroen specialist. Mine's not been done because that's still a lot of money for something that only happens occasionally, and it's been fine since January when I first had the problem. So here's a quick fix - thanks to Biff 55 elsewhere on this forum. When faults/lights appear, switch off ignition and wait for all systems to shut down. This can take several minutes, and will be signified by a slight "whir" and the speedo needle flickering. Then turn on ignition and wait for fuel pump to finish whirring. Turn off ignition again and wait for system shutdown. Turn on ignition again.......... etc.... repeat 5 or 6 times (can take 7 or 8 minutes). Finally, start engine, warning lights may come on briefly, but should go out within seconds and hey presto, all systems normal again. The fault code should still be recorded for future diagnostics though. General consensus is that this vac solenoid is straying beyond limits/tolerance, but not actually failing........ yet! It's a question of how annoying it is for you. Let me know if the quick fix works on yours or if you have it repaired. Good luck.

Woz, Iannez is your best man to answer this, but reading through all the posts I'd say the stalk problem is not a red herring. If the radio control stalk is stuck "on" (whether vol up/down or seek etc) it could be causing a small current drain which is sending the car into eco mode after 30 minutes. As I say, this is only an educated guess so I hope iannez will chip in if I'm wrong. Good luck.

Please could all C5 owners read my post in the Technical Section under the topic C5 Reliability. I think you'll find it interesting, infuriating and hopefully make some of you want to act yourselves! Cheers, Mike

"A reliable Citroen? What Car ? would rather shut down than admit to that ! :lol: " Ah, now this is an interesting topic. I was browsing through the Warranty Direct website a few weeks ago. On this site there is a Reliability Index (run in conjunction with What Car) which is based on all the faults on all cars which have been repaired in the past by Warranty Direct (the largest UK warranty provider). Now the C5 has an index value of 24 ish. To my surprise, most of its competitors (Laguna, Vectra, Mondeo, even A4) have a higher index, which means they are LESS RELIABLE! So I delved a bit deeper and found a Top 10 most reliable cars. All the usual suspects are there, Honda Accord, Toyotas etc, but with a score of 24, the Citroen C5 should be Number 9, slotting in between the Nissan Micra and the Lexus IS200! (But of course it's been left out completely). So I e-mailed info@reliabilityindex.co.uk and posed the question "Is this correct or am I misreading the data?" No reply. So I waited 10 days and contacted Warranty Direct and posed the same question, asking them to get their data boys on it and respond. No reply, so I re-sent the e-mail a few days later. No reply. So I waited another 10 days and e-mailed the editor of What Car magazine, Steve Fowler (I'm a subscriber). He replied the same day and said he would look into the matter, sounding genuinely interested. That was on June 26th, I'll leave it a while longer - I'm sure he's busy chap, but I will chase up and let you all know the outcome. In the meantime, if any other C5 owners would like to add their voice to this debate, visit warrantydirect.co.uk and click on Reliability Index, Top 10 reliable cars etc and see for yourselves. Incidentally, the C5 does score poorly on electrics (the old bugbear) but because the engine, gearbox, even suspension are very reliable, the overall reliability index puts it at Number 9. If I don't get a satisfactory answer, I'm thinking about contacting Marketing and the PR department at Citroen - they should know about stuff like this already really. Does anyone have any views? It's not a personal crusade, but if the C5 is actually proving reliable despite it's reputation, then I think the wider public should know.

I have to be careful what I say here. Nationwide Auto Centres are in the business to make a profit, and my belief is that individual branches are targeted on selling additional parts and services which in some cases may not be necessary.... Far better to use an independent MOT testing station who are not dependent on selling extra bits.

Thanks for the explanation kfk, that makes sense. Another complex Citroen electronic system with the potential to go wrong!... You gotta love 'em