C5 Suspension Pump Fault

[chrisbrooks]

Hi everyone. I am very new here and am hoping for some clarity on an issue with the failure of the suspension on my 2004 VTR C5 2 ltr. diesel estate. After reading up on some posts regarding suspension problems I have checked fuses both under the bonnet and in the glove box, (none blown), the maxi fuse mentioned is a complete mystery to me as I can't find it,could someone post a picture as i can't find one in Haynes, also mentioned was a multi-plug vibrating loose, again, where is it?
The problem surfaced when I was transporting a 90 year old lady to a hospital appointment and was quite upsetting, also getting my self and the car home on a suitable recovery vehicle was not very easy.
I would love to have my baby running again without needing to sell a kidney or my wife, what are the chances?
Thank you all in advance.

Chris Brooks http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/eusa_pray.gif

[paul.h]

Welcome to the forum, please try to ignore the spam that has started over the last few weeks.

 

The multi plug may be the one at the suspension pump connection on the right inner wing under the LDS fluid tank.

Wiring diagrams in the French RTA manuals for the C5 show maxi fuse MF8 for the pump at 40 amps. The maxi fuses should be in the engine fuse box below the top layer of fuses so this needs removing first (I have not done this so not sure how).

[chrisbrooks]

Hi Paul,

 

Thank you for your speedy response, it didn't occur to me to look under the fuse box, it is now a tomorrow job. I will post any results, lets hope for a good one.

 

Regards, Chris.

[chrisbrooks]

 Update : No maxi fuse failure, power is present at the pump, some evidence of corrosion on the pump, but still dead as a dodo,

does any one know of a reliable breaker to source a replacement please?

 Are there any hazards to removal/refitting of a pump?

 

Regards to all,

 

Chris.

[paul.h]

Try coastline taxis on this site, he often has parts available. Haynes manual covers pump replacement. You will need a lot of new LDS fluid, last year it was about £17 a litre. If depressurising the suspension from under the car (as opposed to undoing the pipes at the pump and getting sprayed) it will drop very low so need to use axle stands - this should also minimise oil loss keeping the suspension on max height rather than letting it sink down.

[chrisbrooks]

Hi again Paul,

 

Further developments have happened, while testing for power to the pump we inadvertently earthed the pump body to the headlight frame and hey presto the pump started to run, on starting the engine and operating the level switch it raises and lowers properly from the switch but doesn't switch off (pump) even when the ignition key is removed. this also makes the  pump body continually live. Could this be a sticky relay?

and if so where the devil is it? Haynes says it should be in the glove box but none there.

 

I feel that the answer is staring me in the face and is electrical but i'm stumped.

 

Best regards, Chris.

[paul.h]

I wonder if it is still a problem within the pump. The RTA manual wiring diagram shows the pump motor has a permanent 12v supply via the maxi fuse, an earth wire connected via what may be a relay in the motor, the other side of this relay connects to the control unit on top of the pump - which if interpreted correctly means the pump runs when the control unit switches the relay and to connect the earth. May be the pump electrical connector needs a clean or the wiring earth point needs cleaning.

The car level switch is operating the front and rear valves so a bit independant of the pump although still using the control unit on top of it and the BSI.

I would not allow the pump to run for too long to prevent any problems with it over heating.

[coastline taxis]

Hi been away for the weekend. What was the original problem it says pump failure, was the car not adjusting itself when people were getting in and led you to belive it was the pump

[chrisbrooks]

Hi Steve, many thanks for getting in touch, on reflection the suspension has been getting a bit sluggish of late, but as the car is used primarily for volunteer driving taking elderly folk for hospital appointments it didn't click that there might be a problem.

The day it failed it was very slow to adjust to its driving height, and when I collected my patient it soon started to drop, to the point it felt wrong, at no time did I get a stop warning, then after a few miles it was down on the stops. Have followed the advice kindly offered by Paul H. regarding fuses and battery removal and re connection to the letter and got the boot up clicks and all, but no joy .

The pump shows live feed to the three wire plug  but no movement, yet if the pump has a wire touched to the pump body across to the car body it comes to life, and with the engine running will lift the car as normal.

 

If this seems to be replacement pump time any ideas where to source one from and cost? bearing in mind it's a 2004 reg.

 

Best regards,  Chris.

 

(Was a cabbie in a former life.)

[chrisbrooks]

Update:

 

Just been offered a pump off of a 2003 reg C5 estate..... will it be compatible  and should I have the electronic box as well?

[coastline taxis]

All you doing there is bypassing the pumps info that it gets of the bhi ecu.  So I would say your pump is fine as it works so Before you buy a  pump check the ride height adjusters as the bhi ecu that controls the suspension pump gets all it info from these two units first. There's one on the rear anti roll bar very easy to get to and please please please make sure you have axle stands under the sills before you do. the other one is on the front anti roll bar and pretty easy to get to. Go under rear of car and you'll see a round bar going across the car in the middle youl see a round black sensor firstly check the multiplugs wiring and link rods. if no fault there then remove the link rod from the anti roll bar end (not the height sensor end as itl bend) then start engine and slowly move the link rod up and down to see if the suspension pump starts to go. Do this front and back if needed then get back to us. 9 out of 10 its never the pump

[chrisbrooks]

Thanks very much for that, it makes a lot of sense, any idea why the pump and all its gubbins is mounted on rubber?

 

Chris.

[paul.h]

At a guess, the rubber will stop the pump touching the metal car body and being earthed, which if correct, would prevent it running all the time as you have found.

[coastline taxis]

It stops the pump from rumbling through the whole chassis and earthing

[chrisbrooks]

All you doing there is bypassing the pumps info that it gets of the bhi ecu.  So I would say your pump is fine as it works so Before you buy a  pump check the ride height adjusters as the bhi ecu that controls the suspension pump gets all it info from these two units first. There's one on the rear anti roll bar very easy to get to and please please please make sure you have axle stands under the sills before you do. the other one is on the front anti roll bar and pretty easy to get to. Go under rear of car and you'll see a round bar going across the car in the middle youl see a round black sensor firstly check the multiplugs wiring and link rods. if no fault there then remove the link rod from the anti roll bar end (not the height sensor end as itl bend) then start engine and slowly move the link rod up and down to see if the suspension pump starts to go. Do this front and back if needed then get back to us. 9 out of 10 its never the pump

 

 Hi Steve,   followed the instructions  to the letter but no joy i'm afraid, no response from the pump other than earthing it as formerly said. Where to go from here...?

[coastline taxis]

have you got acsess to diagnostic equip and what part of the country are you. And just a daft one as a few have done it you did have the engine running when you were moving the adjuster. What position is the suspension in now  all down,all up,front down back up or back down front up. Also is the power steering ok       

[chrisbrooks]

Live in Northamptonshire  a little place called Rothwell, Yes engine running but no response from moving the adjusters, Power

steering is fine, suspension is at the high level achieved by setting the in car switch to high and earthing the pump,what diagnostic equip is needed? can probably get the use of a basic one.....

Edited May 15, 2013 by chrisbrooks

[coastline taxis]

Any really we use snapon solus pro. lexia. and a little £30 elm unit (which is really good ) plug it in and go to the suspension and check for fault codes. It sound like its a wiring  issue then as the pump does work. are you any good with a multimeter and have you had any work done on the car prior to the fault happening

[chrisbrooks]

Hi Steve , been out all day and while I was away my son fitted a replacement pump, the new pump is very much quieter than the old, also it isn't live on the casing . He fitted it to the original ecu and it responds to the in car switch insofar as the pump runs on command, there is no movement up or down but we think that's probably due to the amount of fluid lost in the change over, is there a specific routine to bleeding the system? Would it be a good thing to discard all the old fluid and start with all new?whats your thoughts on it as it stands??

 

all the best.  Chris.

[coastline taxis]

We change the fluid every year in our cars (only cause we get it back in tax mind) and it does make a tremendous difference to the ride quality. bleed/drain nipples are next to the ride hieght adjusters. dont worry to much about bleeding the system as the car will normally bleed itself. The problem that sometimes happens is that the  fluid dosnt go straight into the pump. So put a carrier bag over the resivoir filler poke a little hole in it get the pump working and give it a little blow and that normally does the trick then a few citrobotics and the system will be fine. Im slightly confused though as to how the suspension is on full with no fluid when it should be right on the bottom. Any way to drain it we put a tube over the nipple ( WITH THE CAR SUPPORTED ON AXLE STANDS ) and open it slighty and let all the fluid go into a bucket  th then top system up with fresh lds fluiden repeat on the front

[chrisbrooks]

thanks for that Steve, the car was at at full height , but was lowered before he changed the pump, I'ii let you know how it all turns out  cheers for now.

 

Chris,

[chrisbrooks]

Hi Steve and Paul,  Success Success Success, I really can't thank you all enough for the help and advice so freely given.

Friday, installed replacement pump and found that the nipple on the rear sensor was seized rock solid, so used my self bleed brake kit to give a gentle squib in the reservoir tank, absolutely  no response, so gave up for the day as run out of lds anyway.

Saturday, turned up with fresh supply of fluid to find that the Citroen fairies had worked their magic and the car had risen to near normal ride height, filled the tank up and plugged the pump in, started the engine and away she went to full height, did a bit of steering wheel left and right lowered it to the bottom, topped the tank up and raised to full height again then to ride height and it's perfect.

The ride is noticeably softer than it was since I bought the car 12 months ago, it is superb. Thank you Thank you Thank you.

As a matter of interest we pulled the old pump to bits and the plastic frame that holds the brushes is quite badly melted, but the brushes are hardly worn!!!

If we get up Newcastle way the drinks are on me.

 

My very best regards to all who commented, you gave an old man hope, thank you.

 

Chris.

[coastline taxis]

Why dont you stick around and maybe put a posting up on how to change the pump for those that dont know how to and glad your sorted