C3 Will Not Turn-Over And Start

[Videoman]

Hi everybody!

First time poster here... please help!

I have a c3 exclusive. 56plate, a manual and auto one.. brill car, but I can't get it to start!!!!

History:-  I have a spare key that works the car just fine, then it fell apart, put everything back inside , clicked it together and sellotaped it up. 

On Sunday, using the 'proper' key we used the car, no probs.

Monday morning, without any reason, will not start, on either key.  

Monday lunch, after trying a few times without success,  I use jump-leads to start it with my rover... after I had pressed the brake pedal because i was in 'auto' mode, it turned over like a good'un.  I left her to run a few mins... happy days.. wrong!

Monday pm.... will not start again, on either key.   So I put the battery on charge overnight....

Tues.... still will not start...

This is what happens when I get in the car ( I have not had it that long and I still forget to press the brake etc! )... so

# key in the switch, and turn it to first position.... all ignition lights come on, 0 mph, N auto, petrol gauge etc....after 15 sec all those go off and leave on my engine symbol, handbrake, seat belt and a FLASHING battery light. I am apparently in ECONOMY mode too.

#Try to start engine and 'pedal' flashes

# Press pedal and turn key again... total silence... nothing.

The side lights work, indicators work, but NOT windows, blower, radio.

Now then, considering it started up with the jump leads yesterday... why the feck is she giving me probs today????

Your opinions are much sort-after, please! 

Thank You

Paul

Edited October 9, 2013 by Videoman

[paul.h]

Welcome to the forum.

 

When the car is in economy mode certain things will not work until the engine is run again such as the radio, blower and other comfort things - as you have found so this is normal, this is to stop the battery going flat. The time it takes to go into economy mode after stopping the engine is about 15 to 30 minutes but reduces depending on the battery state of charge. Check the  battery voltage some time after the engine last ran, if charged it will be 12.5 to 12.7 volts. Any less and it needs charging and if it will not hold a charge then it may need replacing or there may be a drain on the battery.

 

I have not used a car with the egs gearbox (or any other automatic) so the following is from the car handbook for a 2007 model (from service.citroen website, documentation de bord):

- to start, put in neutral, apply brake pedal, do not touch the accelerator, for a diesel turn the key to the drive position and wait for the preheater light to go off if it lights, turn the key to the starter position until the engine starts. From your note you appear to be doing this although you are waiting 15 seconds before using the starter and maybe not applying the brake pedal in the right sequence.

 

With the car going into economy mode so quickly suggests the battery is the problem so check its voltage. If you get the car running check the voltage whilst running, it should be about 14.5 volts. Once you have done this let us know the results and the engine size/type, whether a mobile phone is connected to the car and if the radio is an aftermarket one (the last 2 are known to possibly give electrical problems).

 

Key cases are available from such as ebay for a few pounds and you simply put the insides of your own key into the new case, including the immobiliser chip.

 

When you disconnect the battery to charge it do not just disconnect it and then connect it since problems can occur. The following is from the Common Problems post:

 

20. Odd electrical problems caused by wrong battery disconnection procedure.

If you need to disconnect the battery and not do a BSI reset procedure, I have found the following has not given me any problems on a 2004 and 2007 C5 and a 2003 C3:

- remove the ignition key from the car

- open the bonnet

- wait a few minutes for the BSI to shut down

- disconnect the battery negative terminal

 

When reconnecting

- ignition key out of the car

- reconnect the battery

- wait a few minutes

- insert the key in the ignition and wait a minute

- turn the key to the first position and wait a minute

- turn the key so the dash lights come on and wait a minute

- start the engine

- take the windows down and up to reset the anti pinch

- reset the clock (and radio on the C3).

[Videoman]

Thank you very much for you info... very comprehensive! :-)

This is what happened this pm. I called into the local citroen dealership and spoke to the 'older' fella behind the front desk and showed him my post off this site.  He had a think and asked if my battery had been completely 'dead' recently. I thought a bit and remembered it had  been totally dead 4 weeks ago and I recharged it while it sat on the vehicle.  He said that sometimes the 'gearbox' memory forgets where the gear stick is placed and consequently if it THINKS that I am  in R or A on the auto gear stick it will not start.   So he said that I could disconnect the  battery leads and 'touch them together'.  Then wait a minute and then reconnect ( going through the sequence mentioned on this site ) and this may re-set the gearbox .  Sooooo... I got home and 'played' with the gear stick, putting it into R and then N and then A, a few times. Each time I heard a 'clunk' sound as if the gearbox was reacting to my actions.  I decided to attempt to start the engine....  BINGO!!! :-)   I turned her off.... and then put her in N as normal to start an auto... and she started again... and again... and again.... and again! Get In!  I popped into the dealership and told the old fella of my success... VERY VERY Happy now! :-)

Cheers for your advice and for reading this drivel  ! 

Paul

[Videoman]

All tears again this morning.... fecking thing wouldn't start again!! It must have stopped n started at least 12 times yesterday afternoon/evening   but not today!! Fecking electric gadgetry!!!

First of all it was in full operation mode but the large N was not on the instrument panel next to the 'auto' word ( this advises that you are in Neutral and ready for starting the engine ) .  And of course, it would not start!  I pressed the 'lock' button on the key fob and at this point the display showwed ... 'Info... Faulty gearbox'   .... hmmm, i thought!

So i disconnected the battery as described by the old fella at citroen, and short circuited the battery.... reconnected but that was no good either... except that I am now in Economy mode once more!

It looks like a trip to the garage with it.... but the fecking thing started yesterday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have tried moving the gear stick around, but I have not heard the 'clunking' sound like i did yesterday, so there must be some gearbox fault... i can only presume its electrical because she behaved herself yesterday afternoon so lovely.

I am soooo disappointed :-(

 

I have just took battery off and on using the menu posted by paul h and for about a minute or two I had full use of everything, even though it wouldn't start ( it still does not accept that I am in N neatral ) but then it suddenly went to Economy mode so the radio went off etc.... :-(

Edited October 10, 2013 by Videoman

[Videoman]

the 'auto' flashes continually on the dash board as well... it has done that all morning.  So the dash looks like this   0mph       --    'auto'  ( which flashes) when it should look like this  0mph   N auto   .  Then, once the brake pedal is depressed it SHOULD go Brrrrrrrrrmmmmm... but it don't!! :-(

[paul.h]

I think we need an auto expert to help out, it is looking as if there may be a problem with the selector or whatever an auto has that senses when in neutral. Also I would check the battery voltage to see if it is low and causing economy mode to come on in a short time. Is your car a diesel ?

 

Just to clarify, when you say you shorted the battery, I assume you meant you disconnected the battery and touched the car positive and negative cables together and not connected the battery terminals together which would likely give lots of sparks, melt the cable being used and discharge the battery.

[Videoman]

The prob happened after a full night of re-charging the battery to ensure it worked ok.   I did both things with the battery, cables and terminals, I didn't get any sparks- which surprised me.

There is plenty of life in the battery .... well.... things that should work, do work -prior to economy mode.  It is a petrol car.

' may be a problem with the selector or whatever an auto has that senses when in neutral ' is probable right... The digital display has once or twice , ( when I have been shifting the gear stick around ) shown    0mph    1 'auto' ( flashing)   so, it appears to be sensing the wrong gear and hence if it isn't in N gear it will not start.   Now then, who do we know on this site that is an 'auto' expert???

Cheers

[paul.h]

Just had a look in the Haynes C3 manual and there is a multi function switch on the gearbox at the end of the selector cable. This switch provides the info for the gear position on the dash. Access to it is by removing the air filter and possibly the battery and battery tray. It may be it just needs an adjustment by putting the gear lever to neutral, slackening the switch mounting bolts, use a meter measuring ohms (resistance) across the switch external contacts on its side, then rotate the switch so it gives 0 ohms, mark its position, then rotate it  further to again give 0 ohms and mark its position. The switch should then be set between the 2 marks. There may already be marks on the switch if it has been adjusted before. Do not use a bulb to check the position since the switch contact can only take 100 mA.

[coastline taxis]

If the cells are dead in a battery you can charge it till doomsday and itl still be useless. Id be puting a new battery on the car and i thing all your problems will go away

[Videoman]

Paul h... your knowledge has no bounds! :-) Thank you for your replies and efforts.

Taxi-man.... thank you for your input too..

It does appear that the battery may very well be the main problem, as Paul h mentioned in earlier posts.  I have noticed that once it is 'jumped' from another car, it will start...eventually.... after a little bit of gear-stick movement etc... then up comes N auto and then ' foot on brake ' and start her up! I took off the slave car and then  I then tested the theory of battery probs by leaving radio on and door open... within a few secs the Economy Mode clicks in and consequently it went to   -- 'auto'  .I have ordered a new battery... and after reading the 2 posts above I think that this may sort it!  We will see.  

#  With a manual car, it is easy to know that your battery is struggling because it grrrrroans and grrrrrrroans a bit more when the ignition is turned .

#  With an auto gearbox( with electric gadgetry) , and if a low battery then means that there are probs with the circuitry then you can't tell how charged-up the battery is... you do not have the option of hearing the grrrroan, grrrroan grrrrrrrrrrrroan of a flat bat! :-(

I will let you all know what happens when the new battery is fitted, prob early next week now. 

[paul.h]

If you do not have one, a meter is useful for measuring battery voltage, and it has many other diy uses. You can get a good enough digital one for around £5 to £10 so no need to spend much. As an example from Machine Mart for £8.39 http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cdm10-economy-digital-multimeter

[Videoman]

Well!  The new battery went onto the C3 on Friday pm.  The last time I had tried to start the engine the car did not sense that I was in N  and consequently would not start..... However, first time of asking.... N auto  is shown on the dashboard, brake pedal pressed and away we went.... Brrrrrrrrrmmmmm SMILEY FACES all round :-)

I have since left it overnight, left the door open ( to 'waste' some battery power to see if I could get Economy Mode working) and it still starts up... first time! :-)

Sooooooooo... despite all the INFO Faults and Eco mode and -- auto  displays, all that it appears to be is a duff battery!!!!! 

 

Therefore Paul h and Mr Taxi, you both had the problem sorted  'spot-on'. Cheers!

Paul

PS  I do hope that tomorrow brings equally successful results!  

[Videoman]

All smiles today!!!!!!  :rolleyes: 

Car started without any trouble at all!  :rolleyes:

CHEERS !!

Paul