Power Steering Leaking Fluid

[Andymuggwump]

Got another couple of o rings from Pirtek so fingers crossed although I won't hold my breath. Garage say they'll fit them today so should know tomorrow if it's still leaking.

[Andymuggwump]

Just as a note, my car is also an 08 reg, as most of the others with this issue seem to be, maybe there was a production issue here that has gone under the radar? It's all very disappointing as I originally loved the car but now my ownership experience has been tainted slightly.

 Oh well fingers crossed for tomorrow.

[Parkesie]

Hi i changed the rack myself have put a couple of thousand miles on it and no leaks. I re used the original o rings even tho i had some generic o rings to replace them with if they did leak.

 

Double check that the rack they have fitted isnt a dud and leaking from the input again. Either reaching up and feeling it or by removing the cover in the footwell and looking in.

 

Also i had to mop up and clean alot of oil from on and in the subframe before i put it all back together so i didnt have to chase phantom leaks.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Parkesie

[Andymuggwump]

Thank you for the help Parkesie. I'll pass all that on to the garage when I talk to them tomorrow.

[Bry]

I have Dec 07 c5 1500vtx 113000 had leaky stering rack, French citroen garage said replace the o rings one slighly smaller than the other and differant coulors, but decided to exchange the rack, no leaks, only the hesitation to sort could be the turbo vac solinoid or the egr but can manage that till i have time to fix It  

[janner]

I was wondering what the value of a rack removed with the pinion seal leaking would be,

 

I just had to fork out for a new citroen rack as i couldn't have the car of the road while my old one was reconditioned so i have the old one in the garage and will try to sell on to recoup some of the ridiculous cost of £1200 Citroen stealership charged for the new rack (2009 C5 tourer)

[paul.h]

On the eurocarparts site the refund on an exchange rack is £120 to £180 depending on which one you buy. So if you could find a reconditioner to sell it to maybe you could get around £100 if it is in good condition.

[spinnerc41]

My 08 C5 is leaking from the rack where the fluid pipes attach, I have had both pipes replaced and its still leaking. i now have no idea what to try the leak is from the pipe connection.

 

Does any one have an idea to try, as I say both fluid piped are new so the o rings / seals are new.

 

Could the clamp be bent?

 

Is the clamp replaceable on its own or is it part of one of the pipes?

 

Can I fit oversized seals?

Edited September 20, 2015 by spinnerc41

[paul.h]

Welcome to the forum.

 

In this topic, what has apppeared to be leaking O-ring seals has actually been the input shaft seal leaking and a replacement rack has been needed. So if not already done, clean up all the oil from the rack and then see if the input shaft seal is the problem.

[otisbass]

i'm a newbie...

 

my 08 C5 had this issue this summer. i had the dealership replace the steering rack but of course that alone failed to stop the leak, it went back twice more for them to replace the hoses and seals - they did the hose replacement at no cost to me.

 

so the leak is stopped but now when a turn the steering a bit sharply to the right I can hear a fairly quiet moan from the steering. not sure what to do about this - could it be too little or too much power steering fluid or might it be a rusty input shaft?

 

i don't generally work on cars so i'm not even sure where to find the floor bung that people are referring to here - any advice would be appreciated  

[paul.h]

Welcome to the forum.

 

Check the steering fluid level to see if it is ok. If the level is low your Citroen dealer will sell the correct fluid but could be Total DA fluid or if your car has hydraulic suspension will be Total LDS fluid from the suspension fluid tank.

 

You could also turn the steering from lock to lock with the engine running to bleed out any air in it. If this does not help then I would go back to the dealer.

 

You might be able to see the steering rack input shaft from above with the bonnet open or from under the car. The bung is likely the rubber seal around the column shaft at floor level in the car.

[Dexy350]

Hello

Same problem on my 08 2hdi leaking from the top of the rack ,looks fairly easy to take out the rack .but I have a question since mine is

Hydractive suspension does the car need to be in the low position to take the pipes out of the rack and where abouts do you clamp the pipes .

Thanks

[paul.h]

Welcome to the forum.

 

If your car is the 2001 to 2008 C5 model then you would be best to obtain a copy of the Haynes C5 manual.

 

If your car is a 2008 on C5 then have a read of these topics:

 

http://www.citroen-owners-club.co.uk/citroen/topic/23506-recommend-a-garage-in-or-near-leicester/

 

25. New C5 (mark 3/X7) steering rack oil leaks - at least 8 cases so far.

We have 2 members jefflad and Howiec with steering rack leaks that are proving difficult to fix. Where the supply and return pipes join the rack, the seals are leaking fluid. It seems Citroen want to replace the pipes to fix this and that just replacing the O-ring seals does not work. Citroen also do not sell the seals separately. An additional 2 members, Parkesie and johnfing, have found a leak from the steering column shaft input seal on top of the steering rack, which initially was thought to be the pipe seals. This seal also is not available so replacement racks have been fitted. The column shaft has badly rusted so may be the cause of the leak - applying grease could possibly prevent this. See http://www.citroen-o...uid/#entry75684 . See also this topic for info on replacing the rack

http://www.citroen-o...ent/#entry81594

 

There are 2 more cases here and one being caused by corrosion of the rack where the alloy oil pipes connecthttp://www.citroen-o...-leaking-fluid/

 

Have a look at this topic from C5greener for another leak point in the piping near the rack http://www.citroen-o...-steering-leak/

[bigwusser]

Hi,

New to the forum.

Recently bought my 1st C5 tourer 2008 (new shape) 2.0 hdi 138 around 4 weeks back.

Foolishly (as it turns out) bought whilst very wet and didn't see leaking steering rack fluid. Was leaking from the top pinion seal.

Joined the owners club and I've read all the forum posts about this being a common issue with this year of car.

So, no problem i thought, found a place that would recon my unit and fit it. Needed new Aluminium pipe, but it was knackered.

Got this done 3 weeks back, got it home and in 2 days leaking from drivers side end seal.

Took it back, they recon'd the unit again and i brought it home. Now leaking again, from the nearside end seal this time.

When i spoke to the fitters after the first return they were suprised that it had failed and apologised. They do C5 on a regular basis and told me they don't get them back after doing the work.

My problem is not that it has failed a second time (well it is!) but what could be causing the end seals to fail so quick?

I'm gonna speak to them Tues and i'm sure they'll take it back in to fix but not sure if there could be other underlying issues that maybe causing this?

I've lost all confidence in the car and if i could afford it i would take it to some waste land and set it on fire whilst performing some cleansing ritual. Btw, the wife says this isn't practical!

 

all or any thoughts would be kindly received.

[paul.h]

Welcome to the forum.

 

Is the garage fitting a reconditioned rack each time or just repairing your old one and only replacing the bit that is leaking at the time ? I had the end seals fail on a Saab rack years ago and I suspect the previous owner had put the wrong oil in since it was not the right colour, so something to check. If you have hydractive suspension it should be Total LDS fluid which is a bit orange, but for normal suspension it should be Total DA. On here it has been suggested these fluids are the same. If it is the wrong oil then other seals in the system may also start to fail - possibly the rack was leaking so the previous owner topped the oil up with a standard hydraulic oil (sometimes red).

 

I would ask the garage for the old seal to check it for damage, perishing or gone soft - these last 2 signs of the wrong oil.

 

A good rule is not to buy a car in the wet or dark since they always look better until the sun comes out.

[bigwusser]

Paul.H

Thanks for the reply.

The garage is reconditioning the original rack each time. They totally strip and replace all seals etc. All they do is steering racks, so i guess they know what's what.

They tell me that because of the seals being used, you don't need the LDS fluid. My C5 doesn't have hydractive suspension btw.

I am presuming there is a high pressure pump somehwere in the system? could it be putting too much pressure into the rack and the seals are the weakest point, so it bleeds out there?

If so, how would i be able to get them to test this? If not, i'll ignore...

The only other thing i can think of is that the rack shafts are worn and therefore will always leak.

 

Totally agree about buying car in the wet! My previous car was totalled by another driver and i had to get another one quick for work. This didn't work out well for me!

[paul.h]

I edited my last post, (not noticing you had replied) with 'I would ask the garage for the old seal to check it for damage, perishing or gone soft - these last 2 signs of the wrong oil'.

 

If the oil being used now is not correct it might affect the pump. According to the Citroen service box workshop procedures (available through ebay to put on a pc from 3 dvds), the pump delivers oil at 115 bar which will be reduced inside the rack. You would think though that as the rack is reconditioned any worn/damaged/faulty parts are replaced so any previous fault would be fixed. The pump is electrically driven and looks to be fastened to the right wing but the 1.6 hdi may be belt driven and fastened on the engine.

[Johndouglas]

My C5 doesn't have hydractive suspension btw.

In which case it uses Fluide DA. And according to the Total specification sheet is the same as LDS. I don't know how DA compares with other power steering fluids but they might destroy the seal material.

[bigwusser]

JohnDouglas Thanks.

Would you expect it to destroy the new seals in a matter of 2-3 days though? does seem a bit quick.

I'll mention the fluid to them when i have the call tomorrow. I seem to remember them specifically saying that the seals they fit don't need a specific fluid.

I'm wondering if the rack itself is the problem, though i would have expected them to notice any issues with it when they stripped it down.

Going back to one of my original thoughts, i just wonder if the fluid being used is increasing the pressure in the system and bleeding out via the end seals.

I've post and update once i've had a conversation with them.

[paul.h]

The pressure after the rack should be quite low unless there is a blockage in the pipework back to the oil reservoir. If so, this could increase the pressure in the low pressure side of the rack.

[Johndouglas]

Would you expect it to destroy the new seals in a matter of 2-3 days though?

No! it wouldn't happen as quickly as that. I have a vague recollection of a post on the forum a few years ago - someone replaced seals on a rack but it still leaked. AFAIR it was because of rust pits on a shaft. Paul or Steve - Do you remember it?

[bigwusser]

Paul.h, the reservoir is draining of fluid, so i don't think there is a blockage from this to the rack. they replaced the Aluminium pipe on the first refurb so this shouldn't be blocked either but not 100% sure if this goes all the way to the Electric pump? If not, there possibly could still be a blockage somewhere allowing pressure to build up.

I'll ask them if they could flush the system when they take it back in for another refurb.

 

Johndouglas, I'll also ask them to carefully check the rack to see if it has any pitting or rust on the end shafts. I know the Pinion was rusty but they seemed to have that sorted for now!

 

I hoping this can be resolved without having to get a different rack.

Let's see what the conversation tomorrow brings...

 

Many thanks for all your input...

[bigwusser]

Hi, Here's an update on the Steering rack issue.

When i got the car back to the garage, it seems that the same rack seal has been turned inside out again, causing the leak. i understand this to be the lower seal in the pinion but not 100% sure where all the seals are in the rack.

We talked about it for a long time and they deduced that the only thing that would cause this would be back pressure, which meant that the low pressure return pipe to the pump has a blockage in it or the pump was at fault.

They then cleared the low pressure pipe from the pump backwards completely, with the effect that you could blow through the low pressure pipe and hear it coming out of the reserviour.

Happy that there was now no blockage, they reassembled the newly build rack and i took it for a 2 hour drive to see if it failed again. Got back and it was still dry and the oil level had not dropped. We agreed that if it did fail again it must be the pump (as there really is nothing else in the system but a rack and a pump) and i would get hold of a new pump and they would rebuild the rack again and fit the new pump.

So, that agreed, I set off for home (4 hours drive). Stopped halfway and checked, still ok. Got home andf checked, still ok.

So, this is where we are at. seems ok at the moment, but it may be a pump issue or was just a blocked pipe somehow?

 

tbh, the garage have been excellent in being pro-active trying to rectify the issue and fault diagnosis. Just hope the Car behaves itself now.....

[Johndouglas]

That's good!    Sounds as though the garage has certainly gone the extra mile to solve the problem.   Let's hope it stays dry.   Keep us updated.

[paul.h]

When a garage gives a good service it helps other members if they are given a mention. In this case they have probably also learned something they will now check as part of their repairs so can offer an even better service.