Possible Turbo Failure?

[citrophile]

Wife's 2006 C3 1.6 HDI VTR developed a problem today where it had absolutely no power under load and on any slight incline just kept getting slower and slower.

 

When I looked at it when I got home from work it started fine and idled OK but when revved it emits a rather loud metallic rattle.

 

I'm thinking possible turbo failure and will have a better look on the weekend so at the moment it's sitting on the drive.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Rob

[paul.h]

Was there a lot of smoke from the exhaust or in the cam cover if the oil filler cap is removed - I had these when the turbo failed on a petrol Saab. If you remove the air inlet pipework to the turbo you should be able to see if there is a lot of play in the turbo and check for missing metal bits.

 

What were the symptoms on the C5 turbo when that failed ?

 

Also could be loss of oil pressure to check (oil pump failure), camshaft problem/follower failure, crankshaft pulley, clutch/dmf problem.

[coastline taxis]

Have you done regular oil changes also make sure you have plenty oil in brfore atempting to restart the car..

[citrophile]

Had a good look this morning and it is, as I thought, a turbo failure. The shaft wobbles about a huge amount and end movement must be at least 2 or 3mm. There is also quite a lot of oil in the air intakes.

 

So, I now have to do another turbo rebuild  :(  although this should be a walk in the park compared to the C5 2.0 HDI I did a few months back. At least this time I can do it standing up rather than flat on my back under the car.

 

So far today I have stripped the whole front off the car, as I decided it would be easier than trying to work in the small space between the radiator/intercooler mounting panel and the turbo/cat/dpf and heatshields. It also means I can get round to renewing the aircon condensor which sits between the radiator and front grille, which needs the bumber off anyway.

 

I would definitely recommend removing the whole front as it gives you a huge amount of access to everything. Once I removed the bumper, grille, radiator/intercooler panel and the steel bumper crossmember, the cat/dpf and turbo were off in a matter of minutes. As long as you plan how you are going to tackle it, it's not too tricky. Have ordered the new turbo cartridge, oil pipes etc and will be removing the sump and cleaning tomorrow. If I had all the bits already then I reckon all in it would only be a weekend job.

 

I also broke a couple of fixings when removing the twin throttle body thingy and also can't for the life of me think why citroen ended up with such a stupid and largely pointless way of fixing it. It seems to be some impossible magic trick of you can only get at the fixing when you take the throttle body off but you can't take the throttle body off as you can't get at the fixings!!! :x I'm not sure yet how I am going to get it fixed again, might be some strategically placed tie wraps.

 

Although some frustrations so far, this is far far easier than the turbo in the C5...

[paul.h]

Looks as if you are becoming the forum expert on turbos and again lucky in that its failure has not caused engine damage. The twin throttle body thingy, is that what they call the air doser valve which directs air to the intercooler ?

 

Have you lost the refrigerant from the air con, there is a known leak point where a pipe connects to the condensor and it is advised to put grease on it to prevent corrosion (from iannez). If there is still refrigerant in it, ideally (legally) this should be removed by an air con company/dealer and not vented to the atmosphere - but with the car in bits this may not be practical. It will have to go somewhere anyway to dry/pressure test and then refill with refrigerant and oil if that has also been lost. When I had a C5 refilled a few years ago the Citroen dealer was about £50.

[citrophile]

Yes Paul, seems like I've been unlucky enough to have two turbo failures in a few months on both our cars..!!!

 

That sounds like the throttle body. It has a couple of electro valves, some sensors and 4 air connections, 1 from air intake, 1 to intercooler, 1 from intercooler, and 1 to the turbo inlet via the resonator thingy.

 

The condenser sprang a leak last year so there is no gas in it currently as decided it was too costly and awkward to do last year and now I have the front off seems like the best time to do it.

 

Rob

[paul.h]

This is based on Citroen's procedure for removing the double inlet air doser unit :

- remove the resonator pipe between the turbo and doser unit (unclip the strap, undo the jubilee type clip, remove the bolt (6 +/- 1.5 Nm) at the turbo).

- unclip the electrical connectors and unclip the wiring.

- undo the 3 jubilee type clips and disconnect the air hoses.

- under the doser unit undo and move aside the exhaust gas pressure sensor (2 nuts and a pipe support clip to undo).

- from the top of the doser unit, between the 2 lower hose connections, remove the retaining bolt (9 +/- 2 Nm but on refitting the threads should be coated with Product E3 - but does not say what that is).

- from under the doser remove the 2 pillar screws (9 +/- 2 Nm) and support clip (all revealed when the exhaust sensor was moved).

- slide the doser towards the front and extract it from its support.

 

Refitting is a reversal of removal.

[citrophile]

Just to let you guys know, turbo all changed yesterday, started with no problems and my wife is happy her car is well again!! At least the weather has been a bit kinder to me than when I did the C5 turbo in October last year.

 

If anyone else has a turbo problem on a 1.6HDI I can certainly recommend doing it yourself if you're half decent with a set of tools. Am happy to provide advice if anyone needs it.

 

Rob

[coastline taxis]

Do a write up rob and well pin it to the section. put down where you got the bits from.   and if possible a few pics of it