C8-Wheel Removal & Rear Screen Wash Problem

[albotek]

The 10 amp pump fuse had blown. Replacing it has restored the front screen wash BUT not the rear. The pump doesnt even energise when the rear wash switch is rotated. I assume the rear wash and front wash share the same pump and reservoir?

 

I tried to take a wheel off my C8 today (while trying to check out screen wash pump). I removed the wheel nuts but the wheel would not come off. Do I have to remove the center split pip assy. too? surely not, or do I need to be a bit more forceful with it. (I tried kicking it).

 

Dave 

[paul.h]

If your wheel is an alloy and it has not been removed recently then it has probably rusted to the hub. It should pull off after just removing the wheel bolts.

 

I have found the best way to remove such a stuck wheel is to slacken the wheel bolts but leave in place in case the car comes off the jack (ideally an axle stand should be used), jack up that corner of the car so the wheel is just above the ground, from under the car hold a piece of wood against the inside of the tyre and then hit the wood with a heavy hammer but do not catch the alloy so it does not get damaged. Gradually the wheel will become free so it can then be removed as normal. The hub should be cleaned up with a file and the contact parts of the wheel should also be cleaned so the corrosion is removed. Before refitting, apply a smear of copper grease to the contact parts of the hub and wheel so it does not happen again. You should do all 4 wheels since if you need to replace a wheel at the side of the road it could prove difficult.

[albotek]

Thanks Paul. Yes the wheels are alloys. The car has to go in to have the brake pads replaced so I'll get the mechanic to take all the wheels off in anticipation of a roadside predicament.

 

I just need to sort out the rear screen wash now.

 

Dave

[Johndouglas]

I just need to sort out the rear screen wash now.

Usually the washer system uses the same reservoir and pump for both screens. The pump reverses direction for the rear washer. Check that the jet isn't blocked.

 

And to prevent your alloys sticking in the future, smear some copper grease on the hubs before fixing the wheels.

[albotek]

 

I just need to sort out the rear screen wash now.

Usually the washer system uses the same reservoir and pump for both screens. The pump reverses direction for the rear washer. Check that the jet isn't blocked.

 

And to prevent your alloys sticking in the future, smear some copper grease on the hubs before fixing the wheels.

 

Thanks John,

 

I did disconnect the rear screen wash pipe in the rear inspection hatch but still no water flows. I did try blowing and sucking on the pipe but I just went dizzy. There is no sound from the screen wash pump in the reverse direction..

 

Dave 

[paul.h]

Usually a mechanic will not put any copper grease on the wheel hubs unless you make/instruct him.

 

Whilst he has the wheel off and the car jacked up it should not be much more effort to get to the washer pump/wiring so why not ask him to have a look at that end and maybe provide a replacement pump to fit if it is not too expensive ? As a minimum he could see if the pump runs in opposite directions with a 12 volt supply - then if it does the problem may be with the wiper switch comms 2000 unit.

[albotek]

UPDATE:

 

I got the mechanic to remove all for road wheels and grease'em up so that should solve any future issues.

 

According to the same mechanic, there are two pumps and the rear one works with a direct 12v so something else going on there. Could there be a second fuse somewhere for the rear pump?

 

Any idea what the long plastic "dip-stick" type thing attached the the screen wash reservoir cap is for? Is it just a dip-stick? 

 

He suggested, if all else fails, connect the two together so at least I can get water to the rear screen.

 

Dave

Edited April 6, 2014 by albotek

[Gilbern Invader]

It is just a dipstick, only one pump that spins both ways either to front or rear. Check the joint on the washer pipe behind the plastic cover to the rear corner drivers side, pressure can force joint apart and spray water over the airbag wiring etc. Use tie wraps to hold the pipes onto the joint. Check the jet is clear, new pump is not massive money, I paid £25 at the dealers 3 years ago.

[albotek]

It is just a dipstick, only one pump that spins both ways either to front or rear. Check the joint on the washer pipe behind the plastic cover to the rear corner drivers side, pressure can force joint apart and spray water over the airbag wiring etc. Use tie wraps to hold the pipes onto the joint. Check the jet is clear, new pump is not massive money, I paid £25 at the dealers 3 years ago.

 

The water tank on my C8 definitely has 2 pumps. 1 seems to have two outlets and works fine. The other has one outlet, I have put 12volts on it and that runs too. If I twist the column switch for the rear screen wash I can hear a click from under the engine fuse box (no sound from either pump) which I assume to be a relay. I guess this rules out a problem with the switch and the pump is ruled out. Is there another fuse? I cant see any water jets to wash the head lamps so I assume the rear wash has a separate pump? 

 

I assume that when the column switch is activated this tells the BSI to actuate the relay. The relay then switches 12v to the pump. So this leads me to think that perhaps the relay is faulty, there is a 12 volt supply feed missing or I am barking up the wrong tree.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

[Johndouglas]

The water tank on my C8 definitely has 2 pumps.

Does your car happen to have HID headlamps?

[albotek]

 

The water tank on my C8 definitely has 2 pumps.

Does your car happen to have HID headlamps?

 

Ummmmmm?  I think she has. Weird looking things

[Johndouglas]

So if you have xenon headlights, that's why you have the second washer pump.   The headlamp washers uses their own pump.   Your windscreen washer pump will go in reverse to wash the rear screen.

[albotek]

So if you have xenon headlights, that's why you have the second washer pump.   The headlamp washers uses their own pump.   Your windscreen washer pump will go in reverse to wash the rear screen.

Darn it I thought I was on to something  :rolleyes:

 

Thanks for your input. I need to get the screen washer pump out again.... :blink:

 

Dave

[Johndouglas]

If you're at all doubtful about your pump, fit a new one.   I recently fitted one of these from Eurocarparts.   Cost less than a tenner.
http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/Citroen_C5_2.0_2005/p/car-parts/car-body-parts-and-car-exhaust/wipers/car-washer-system/?488545100&1&6e76d86589e3875bbeab44ef302d7804bd7d9624&000599

[albotek]

So if you have xenon headlights, that's why you have the second washer pump.   The headlamp washers uses their own pump.   Your windscreen washer pump will go in reverse to wash the rear screen.

 

Another possibly daft question. If my C8 had headlamp wash wouldnt there be washer jets or wipers of some kined? I cant find any mention of light washers in the handbook.

 

Dave

 

 

[Johndouglas]

If your car is fitted with xenon headlights, by law they have to have washers (which is an MOT item now).   On a C5 there are two oblong panels which act as covers for the washers.   Only when the headlights are on and the windscreen wiper lever is pulled, the panels with the washer stalks shoot out - about 7" and spray two long jets of water at the headlamps.   After the wash is over, the stalks retract and the covers go back into place.   Here's a picture of a C5 xenon headlamp.   Notice the lens - rather like a big magnifying glass.

%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i53/Johndug/P1030616abc.jpg

[Johndouglas]

If your car is fitted with xenon headlights, by law they have to have washers (which is an MOT item now).   On a C5 there are two oblong panels which act as covers for the washers.   Only when the headlights are on and the windscreen wiper lever is pulled, the panels with the washer stalks shoot out - about 7" and spray two long jets of water at the headlamps.   After the wash is over, the stalks retract and the covers go back into place.   Here's a picture of a C5 xenon headlamp.   Notice the lens - rather like a big magnifying glass.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i53/Johndug/P1030616abc.jpg

 

 

[albotek]

If your car is fitted with xenon headlights, by law they have to have washers (which is an MOT item now). On a C5 there are two oblong panels which act as covers for the washers. Only when the headlights are on and the windscreen wiper lever is pulled, the panels with the washer stalks shoot out - about 7" and spray two long jets of water at the headlamps. After the wash is over, the stalks retract and the covers go back into place. Here's a picture of a C5 xenon headlamp. Notice the lens - rather like a big magnifying glass.

 

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i53/Johndug/P1030616abc.jpg

AHAA!!..... At some stage the covers must have snapped off the front of the shooty outty mechanism so some bright spark screwed some pretty reflectors over the holes so the shooty outty things couldnt shoot out. And it passed the last MOT like this. I have now removed the reflectors so the head lamp washers now work and this confirms what you all have been saying about the mystery pump.

 

I now have two holes in my bumper and I need to find a way of securing some sort of flap or try to get replacement parts.

 

Thanks for your help in tracking down this unknown issue.

 

I'll order up a new rear/front washer pump to see if that solves that....

 

Is the rear washer not working an MOT failure?

 

Dave

Edited April 23, 2014 by albotek

[Johndouglas]

I now have two holes in my bumper and I need to find a way of securing some sort of flap or try to get replacement parts.

The washer covers are available from a Citroen dealer. They are the greatest rip-off of all time. For the C5 they cost £24.50 for the two. You have to buy the pair, and they come unpainted so you need matching paint as well. Should you need the spray bars, they will cost you another £220.

 

I don't think the rear washer is an MOT issue however, the headlamp washers were included in the new regs that came in on 1st January. They must now work together with the self-levelling of the lamps.

[albotek]

Thanks for all the info. I'm going to try to fix the bodged reflectors to the end of the spray bars.

 

Regards,

 

Dave

[albotek]

UPDATE:

 

I managed to get some proper jet covers for the bumper and they broke and fell off with first time test. So I screwed those reflectors to the end of the jets and they look and work great.

 

I removed the screen wash pump and, sure enough, it would turn one way but not t'other. I replaced the pump but the fault persists BUT if I reverse the connections to the pump the water comes out the rear jets and not the front. If I disconnect the pump supply I get a voltage reversal but when pump connected the -12v is absent. I think it may be a relay that I can hear but not locate.

 

Dave

[paul.h]

I am not quite clear - are you saying with the pump disconnected electrically, when the front washer switch is used, at the pump connector you get +12 volts on one terminal and an earth on the other and that if you try the rear washer you still get an earth and + 12 volt but on the opposite terminals. But when you connect the pump you lose the earth when trying the rear washer - this may indicate a faulty pump but you could test it direct from the battery.

 

From the Haynes manual for the C5, the wipers wiring diagram shows 2 relays in the engine fusebox for the washer pump with a common 12 volt supply and a common earth for them. So, if I have read this correctly, depending on whether the front or rear washer is needed, the 2 relays work together so that the pump receives a +12 volts and an earth on the 2 wires to the pump with the direction reversed to give the opposite pump rotation. So possibly one of these relays (or its connections) may be faulty if you are losing the earth when trying the rear washer switch and having the pump connected does not make any difference.

 

It is still possible it could be a switch fault unless you can hear the relays trying to work.

[albotek]

I am not quite clear - are you saying with the pump disconnected electrically, when the front washer switch is used, at the pump connector you get +12 volts on one terminal and an earth on the other and that if you try the rear washer you still get an earth and + 12 volt but on the opposite terminals. But when you connect the pump you lose the earth when trying the rear washer - this may indicate a faulty pump but you could test it direct from the battery.

 

Hi Paul,

 

With the NEW pump disconnected I get 12 volts across the connecting wires (blue and white) with both front and rear screen wash with a change in polarity from back to front. But when I connect the pump I dont get the reverse polarity for the back wash however I can hear a click from atleast 1 relay so it maybe that one has failed. The click is coming from the fuse box under the bonnet, where the fuse for the pump is located. I cant see any relays, they are probably underneath the fuses which will need the fuse box to be totally disconnected and removed.

 

Ive not checked to see what I am actually getting to chassis. That'll be by next test.

 

Dave

Edited May 18, 2014 by albotek