Which Coolant Please

[Piano Man]

Hello, I have been confused as to which anti-freeze/coolant product to use in my Xsara Picasso which although registered in January 2008 is probably 2007 manufacture.   I have finally decided to flush out the system and replace with Halford's OAT Red Anti-Freeze and Coolant.  Its a 1.6hdi Diesal. 

 

After a unproductive call with my Citroen dealer I went to Halfords and they are very helpful.  They confirm this is right for my car as does their website.  So I know it is! but, I am just asking if anyone out there has any views.

 

Also I have read its an 11 litre job.  I have just drained it down and there is nothing like 11 litres in my bowl.  It was a little down but not that much.  Can anyone confirm that it is in fact 11 litres in the tank.

 

Any feedback will be gratefully received.  It's been a huge learning curve!   Thanks.

 

 

[paul.h]

Welcome to the forum.

 

Unless you drain the engine block you will not get the full amount out plus the heater matrix may not fully drain. There will be a bleed screw on a heater hose to undo and on a hose/box at the back of the engine block accessible from above there may be an engine block drain plug which may be held in place by a clip - its O-ring and clip are supposed to be renewed.

 

Citroen use a long life anti freeze which they say does not need changing. However, if you do you need to fully flush all the old out by filling and draining a few times with water. When I replaced the a/f in our 2003 C3 as part of a timing belt change, I did not flush the engine block out and despite adding Citroen's own Glysantin G33 a/f (blue colour, car original was a pale yellow) a small amount of what looked like grease appeared in the expansion tank - so the 2 may not have been compatible. So since you are using Halfords a/f it is probably also important to drain as much as possible of the old out.

 

When ready to refill with fresh a/f with the bottom hose in place and the block drain plug in place, put in all the a/f before you start adding any water - that way you know it will be the right strength if you can not get the full 11 litres in. Once air stops coming out of the heater hose vent, close it and then continue filling up. Once full, fit the tank cap, run the engine for a short while to help remove any air, squeezing hoses helps, check the a/f level and top up if needed. Then you should run the engine until the fan kicks in at about 97°C but before then check the thermostat opens and the top rad hose gets hot (about 83°C), squeeze the hoses to get any more air out but also watch the temperature gauge (if there is one) to make sure it goes up gradually - if it does not or suddenly jumps there may be air still in the cylinder head that needs removing before the engine gets too hot. Once it cools down check the level again and over the next few days since it is likely more air will come out.

[Johndouglas]

You're right about the capacity being 11 ltrs. When you drain from the bottom of the rad, the coolant remains in the engine block. There may be a drain plug on the back of the engine. Also the heater system may not have completely emptied

[Piano Man]

A really big thank you to the two replies I have had already from two members. You have gone to a lot of trouble in answering me. You have been of more help than citroen, the handbook and the internet! Thank you for this great welcome to the forum. I think for now I may just put back what I took out owing to the weather and I will put another post on in due course, I may even have another query when I come to do it! Thanks again, for sharing your expertise.

[paul.h]

The Haynes manuals are usually good on things such as coolant changes but the Citroen service box procedures are better, comes as 3 dvds to put on your computer (available from such as ebay). Dealers have to be careful on what they say due to liability and not wanting to lose business and they are only allowed to use Citroen products to maintain warranties. http://www.haynes.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=47051&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=10215

[Piano Man]

Thanking you again for all the help. 

 

I am trying to completely drain the coolant out of the Xsara P.  1.6hdi diesel, 2007 manufacture.   I have located two bleed screw caps, one on the heater matrix and the other on the top of the engine block.  However, I can't find the engine bleed screw, which I think is somewhere underneath the car.   I would really appreciate knowing the exact location of this screw, I've looked and looked but can't find it.  I am not jacked up but laying underneath.   More detail the better please!   I have dropped the plastic engine guard.  

 

I have now got 2.5 litres of old antifreeze so there has to be another 8 litres somewhere.    The 2.5 has come from the lower radiator hose.   

 

When I have done this, I will further report which may help others who are confused about topping up, which is where this all started!!  Rain stopped play today but hopefully tomorrow the sun will shine....  Thanks for the last tip to look for the service boxes, I've quickly looked on ebay but can't see any but I shall have a better look tonight. 

[paul.h]

'on a hose/box at the back of the engine block accessible from above there may be an engine block drain plug which may be held in place by a clip - its O-ring and clip are supposed to be renewed.' - This is based on Citroen's procedures, so you need to look at the back of the engine from above. It looks as if there is a hose manifold on the back of the engine above the differential (drive shafts come out of this) and the drain plug sticks out of it. It could be plastic and is held in place by a spring clip that needs to be pulled out. It looks quite big and is towards the timing belt end of the manifold.

 

If you look at the Citroen parts diagrams it can be found under Mechanical/Cooling system/Water pump gasket water outlet tank. You can see the parts diagrams as a free service on the service.citroen site if you register as another professional and a member of the Citroen Owners Club. http://service.citroen.com/do/changerParametres Use your VIN (VIS) in the top left to find your car since there are 3 1.6 hdi engines listed - a 92 bhp, a 110 bhp and a 110 bhp with an exhaust particulate filter (dpf). The plug O-ring is part no. 1338G5 and the clip part no. is 1338C3 but you should check these against your VIN.

[paul.h]

I think this is the service box http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CITROEN-SERVICE-REPAIR-MANUALS-plus-WIRING-DIAGRAMS-2014-ALL-Models-EPC-3-DVD-/291361649387?pt=UK_CarParts_Vehicles_Manuals_Litterature_ET&hash=item43d681f2eb

[Piano Man]

Hello again Paul h. & all,

 

I got all the old a/f out and completely flushed through.  I am now having problems refilling. I have followed the so helpful advice given by you, but I am struggling. 

 

First issue was a very slow fill, really slow hardly moved, using a big funnel sealed with rag. I did lots of 1) hose squeezing, 2) bleeding the radiator top hose bleed screw and 3) the bleed screw on the heater matrix.

 

But, running the engine up for about half an hour I can't get the top hose to heat up, indicating no circulation of the a/f.  I can't tell if the thermostat has opened and I am worried to continue.  Should I carry on until its really really hot.   The temperature gauge is heating slowly and this bit looks OK to me. 

 

Should the a/f circulate even a bit before the thermostat opens? Or does it wait until the thermostat opens.

 

I am concerned that there is air in the block and I don't know where the third bleed screw is - is this supposed to be at the back of the block.  I honestly, despite looking for hours, cannot find this third bleed screw.  I have been looking from all angles, with a heavy duty torch just had a look in the dark thinking the dark, with torch, might show it but nothing.  Is there one on this particular model 92hp?

 

I've been all day on this, started optimistically but really don't know where to go from here.  To just clarify I did eventually replace the a/f with approximately 9 litres of the OAT red/water (50/50).  The capacity is supposed to be 11.

 

Any leads you can give me would be so helpful and I do realise I am taking up your time.  I am not even sure that the manual, which I haven't yet had a chance to order, will cover this as it seems so elusive.  Even the citroen technician when I spoke to him the other day about the type of antifreeze to use was vague, in fact they had never heard of OAT.  (OAT is recommended by Halfords for my reg number).  I asked him about the process but again it was vague, I think probably because the handbook says "see the Agent". 

 

Thank you once again. 

[paul.h]

The Citroen procedure and the parts diagrams do not show a bleed screw on the engine block/cylinder head but when you mentioned finding one I thought maybe there is one. I think it shows a small bore pipe from the top of the thermostat housing which should let air out of the cylinder head back to the expansion tank, so you could check this rises from the housing so air can go through it. From what you have said though and that the cylinder head gasket has not failed then I think everything is ok. You may find that in the morning things may have settled a bit and the level may need topping up, squeeze the hoses a bit more, see if any more air comes out of the bleed screw and the small bore pipe and then try the engine again. Over the next few days check the level again in case a bit more air comes out.

 

When I replaced the coolant on the C3 that was incredibly slow to fill. I did not use a funnel to extend the height of the expansion tank filling neck but in the end applied vacuum to the bleed screws to suck the air out and this helped (with a Mityvac hand pump, I did not try sucking it out due to a/f being toxic).

 

The thermostat will not open until it is up to temperature so unless it has a small bleed hole in it, the top hose will not get warm until it opens. The weather is a bit cold so this may not be helping it to warm up quickly and you could try with the bonnet closed. The cabin heater hoses though will get warm and if you have the cabin fan on you should get warm air blowing since the water pump will be sending the coolant round the engine block/cylinder head and heater matrix. If after running the engine for half an hour and if there was not any/enough coolant in the cylinder head then likely it would have already overheated and maybe caused the head gasket to fail - so probably ok here.

 

If you got 9 litres in of ready mixed 50/50 and if there was already 2 litres left in the system of water from the flushing, then you have added 4½ litres of 100% a/f giving the final strength of about 41% which should be good enough. If you need to top up later it would be better to use 100% a/f, or the 50/50 but definately do not use more water.

[Piano Man]

Once again thanks to the Forum for some great assistance.  I finally got the thermostat to open after running the car for some time and circulation started.  What a relief. Our Scottish neighbour recommended the use of a hair dryer which I didn't do owing to the rain but I thought that was a pretty good idea.

 

My advice for the future would be to go to your Citroen dealer before attempting to start the job.  A morning's work turned into a long run and a fair amount of stress too.  If you decide to do it yourself then get a manual, as Paul said, there are too many variables and potholes for Mr Average!  The whole situation was not helped by the very cold weather of course.

 

Took it out for a short spin yesterday, temperature climbed to half way so that was comforting.  Turned off the engine and then quickly on again after about 15 minutes, the temperature gauge flashed red, so fleetingly I could have missed it and then immediately dropped down to mid point.  I guess it's still sorting itself out after the trauma?

 

Thanks again Forum members, Paul in particular, I could not have done it without the help and just so thankful I joined the Forum.