dizzyblond Posted March 17, 2015 Posted March 17, 2015 Hi everyone and now for a insane story!!...I have the most annoying and so far untraceable ‘noise’ in my 2007 (face lift model) Citroen C5 2.2Lt HDi Bi-Turbo 5 door hatch, with the 6 spd sports auto transmission...OK here we go: the noise is a ‘rubbing’ sound that emanates from the front nearside (left hand side facing forward)...it cannot be heard from the back seats, it is not heard in the same intensity from the front passenger seat but is heard loud and clear from the drivers seat (right hand drive) and when it is at its loudest ie slowly going through a right hand bend, it can just be felt through the steering wheel...It is a regular cyclic sound that is generated in sync with the road wheel rotation – any gear, any speed, it is totally in sync with the road wheel speed...it sounds like a worn out brake pad coming into contact with a slightly bent disc – but it’s not!!...It is definitely originating from the front left side, this is shown when the car is turned into a right hand bend/corner when the noise will get markedly louder...conversely when turning into a left hander the noise will disappear, indicating that when the culprit is loaded up, then it becomes more ‘stressed’ or more in ‘contact’ hence the increase in noise level...These are the areas that have been investigated:1. All wheels and tyres have been rotated and/or changed... 2. All wheel bearings thoroughly checked...3. All Brake discs and callipers/pads etc as above...4. Left hand side drive shaft removed, CV joints split, repacked and replaced...5. Transmission serviced, including fluid change...No components were found to be faulty or had undue wear patterns, abrade marks or the like...The only area that seems to remain a grey area is the transaxle/diff, which would rotate at road wheel speed, but the loading factor is a mystery??...If anyone has even the remotest idea, or maybe even knows what it is – a very knowledgeable Citroen dealer was absolutely sure it was a ‘cup and spring’ in the inner CV tripod joint that, due to an over-extension of the drive shaft, would become loose and would then wedge itself into something in the joint and subsequently make the noise...well good try but no cigar...as mentioned above the CV joints were stripped and nothing untoward was found, dam!!!... It is of course sending me slowly bonkers but I may go deaf before that due to the hi-fi being turned up so loud to mask out the noise – HELP PLEASE!!!...thanx everyone for reading...dizzy Quote
paul.h Posted March 17, 2015 Posted March 17, 2015 On the front brakes,- have you removed the pads and cleaned everything up so the pads are free to move- have you tried with the handbrake on very slightly to see if the noise changes- have you checked the brake disc run out, the Haynes manual gives 0.05 mm max- are the pads Citroen parts or after market which could be noisier The rear brakes on the C5 suffer from corrosion between the caliper and suspension arm which needs removing every 1 or 2 years. If not the caliper is pushed out and can even reach the wheel. Symptoms here are rubbing and squealing noises. There is a pinned post on doing the back brake calipers and one on the front pads ones in the Problems and Fixes section. So, if you have not serviced the back brakes or checked them it is worth doing. Quote
dizzyblond Posted March 18, 2015 Author Posted March 18, 2015 Hi paul.h...thanx for your reply and insight...BUT...the noise is definitely coming from the front left hand side...all the brakes have been thoroughly checked and the pads are Citroen originals...tried the h/brake, no change...the discs are spot on, virtually no run-out at all...I am 99.99% certain is is not swivel joints, ball joints or wishbone bushes, this is not a clunk type noise or a droning noise it is a rubbing sort of noise, like sandpaper on some rusty metal...AND...it only happens when the wheels rotate and always when the wheels rotate...the car has been up on a hoist and then the wheels have been taken off the deck of the hoist by an inner hoist and we ran the car up to 60kph and the technicians were underneath with stethoscopes and long bits of metal rod etc etc trying desperately to pinpoint the noise but to no avail...it has remained exactly the same in intensity over 5000kms and it just suddenly appeared one day apropos of nothing, right out of the blue...once again thanx a mill, gotta keep trying to fix the things that Citroen couldn't!!...kind regards dizzy Quote
paul.h Posted March 18, 2015 Posted March 18, 2015 When on the hoist could the noise still be heard ? Also is your car left hand drive with you using km/h ? When you say the brakes have been checked - have the pads been removed and everything cleaned ? Why I mentioned the back brakes is they will be connected diagonally to the fronts due to the tandem master cylinder. So a problem with the back right could be affecting the front left. Years ago I had a problem on a Maxi with bad brake judder which also affected the steering wheel and this turned out to be bad wear in one of the rear brake drums. Something else to possibly check is the abs sensor which should have a slight gap between it and the hub. We have a 2007 2.2 hdi VTX manual estate and that makes a rubbing noise if not used for a few days due to a slight rust film on the discs but this clears after a few miles. It also has a hard drive in the radio/sat nav that can be heard most of the time. I have not tried an auto so do not know what noises that could make. Quote
dizzyblond Posted March 18, 2015 Author Posted March 18, 2015 Hi paul.h...as I said in my first post the car is right hand drive - I am in Ozz - the noise could be heard by me in the drivers seat on the hoist but not by the technicians below, damm!!...all pads removed, cleaned and refitted, all discs checked for runout, handbrake checked...good point re. diagonal connection of brakes, will have that checked again, the abs sensors have been checked and are all OK...most vehicles discs suffer rust film if left for a few days but usually clears after the first application of the brakes and I have no hard drive onboard...thanx for your input it is much appreciated...kind regards dizzy Quote
paul.h Posted March 18, 2015 Posted March 18, 2015 On the hoist the rear wheels would not have been moving so probably it may be nothing to do with the rear brakes. I am struggling to think of anything else that could make a rubbing noise when the front wheels turn. I did think of the speedo but that is electronic and not cable driven. Maybe some other people will come up with a few ideas. Quote
coastline taxis Posted March 21, 2015 Posted March 21, 2015 think id be changing the wheel bearing. they are pressed in so cant be tightened up. when checking you can only really check for wear and not for the bearing going dry, if you turn wheel by hand there wont be a sound as you cant turn it fast enough Quote
dizzyblond Posted March 23, 2015 Author Posted March 23, 2015 Hi guys...apologies for the delay in responding I have huge problems with net/mobile and land-line access where I live and am often off the net for days/weeks at a time - grrrrrrr we love you Telstra!!...thanx for your input FOK - or is it Steve?? I think you helped me with my last C5?? btw the cable never ever arrived!! I owe you a few beers for that...so I am going to have a wheel bearing fitted and see what happens then and hopefully all will well...OK maybe we should all take a break until I have had the wheel bearing fitted and then I will report back and hopefully all will be well...once again thanx a mill to everyone for all your comments and suggestions...a very confused dizzy!! Quote
dizzyblond Posted April 8, 2015 Author Posted April 8, 2015 Dam, dam and dam again!!!...well after waiting for about 2 weeks to get my wheel bearing – things take forever here in the Ozzie bush!! – I had it fitted yesterday and the noise is still there...so now the only remaining possibility is the diff/transaxle assembly, this seems to be the only other component(s) that can possibly react to an increase in load when turning into a right hander – just to refresh; the noise (a rubbing sound like a worn brake pad on the disc, in sync with the wheel rotation) increases when I turn into a right hander - indicating that it is the left hand front wheel assembly, well that is the logical explanation but as everything has now been triple checked, inc the drive shaft stripped and now wheel bearing replaced, the only other place is in the diff and there is no way that I am going there, simply just too much filthy lucre needed to make it worth while...so thanks a mill guys for all your suggestions and help, sorry I am not able to solve the puzzle and believe me I would dearly like to be able to!!...if I do decide to go into the murky depths of the transaxle and find the problem I will post the results, or indeed if I discover what it is full stop...kindest regards to all dizzy Quote
dizzyblond Posted April 17, 2015 Author Posted April 17, 2015 Hi Guys...just to clarify further: wheels have been swapped diagonally and side to side, brake pads have been swapped, disc run out checked, any bearing/bush or rotating anything has been examined and measured - if appropros...in fact the only thing to do now is find the eternal 'unturned stone'!!!...it almost has to be in the diff/transaxle and the more I discover the more I am sure I am simply NOT going to go there - it is difficult to justify spending approx 25%-50% of the value of the vehicle looking for I know not what!!...but will report back if I ever find out what it is, or if it implodes and becomes apparent what the 'noise' was...once again thanx a mill for all your suggestions, ideas and unselfish help...kind regards dizzy Quote
coastline taxis Posted April 17, 2015 Posted April 17, 2015 youve definatly got everyones attention. So please keep us informed Quote
Bry Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 May sound daft but is the wheel arch covers dropping down and rubbing have the same type of sound on doing a right turn as there is no sump cover, and the inner plastic comes away slightly and the wheel just rubs it,it does leave a black mark but only just, bit late to reply but only visit infrequntly, as there has been no reply as to a fix thought i would reply Quote
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